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[LolaLei]

So in theory our Mage Wardens (both male and female, Human or Elf) could have married Alistair/Anora at the end of DA:O if he/she was made King/Queen because ending the Blight and surviving would definitely earn the Warden permission to get a special dispensation from the Chantry.

[LobselVith8]

LolaLei wrote...

So in theory our Mage Wardens (both male and female, Human or Elf) could have married Alistair/Anora at the end of DA:O if he/she was made King/Queen because ending the Blight and surviving would definitely earn the Warden permission to get a special dispensation from the Chantry.

Anora makes it clear that the Landsmeet would never accept a mage as King, which is why only a human noble can be a ruler.

[LolaLei]

LobselVith8 wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

So in theory our Mage Wardens (both male and female, Human or Elf) could have married Alistair/Anora at the end of DA:O if he/she was made King/Queen because ending the Blight and surviving would definitely earn the Warden permission to get a special dispensation from the Chantry.

Anora makes it clear that the Landsmeet would never accept a mage as King, which is why only a human noble can be a ruler.

Oh yeah I'd forgotten about that. But, a female mage could marry Alistair if he's made King because he's in love with the Warden so he would probably be more accepting of the concept.

[nightscrawl]

LolaLei wrote...

Oh yeah I'd forgotten about that. But, a female mage could marry Alistair if he's made King because he's in love with the Warden so he would probably be more accepting of the concept.

If you are a mage, the only way you can remain with Alistair in any capacity is if you Harden Alistair and pick the right dialogue choices. You can remain as Alistair's mistress/lover, but marriage is not mentioned. In the post-Landsmeet scene Alistair is upset but is ready to make the sacrifices he needs to be the king, including breaking up with you in order to marry and produce an heir. The dialogue you must choose basically reminds him to do what HE wants and F all the rest.

[LolaLei]

nightscrawl wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Oh yeah I'd forgotten about that. But, a female mage could marry Alistair if he's made King because he's in love with the Warden so he would probably be more accepting of the concept.

If you are a mage, the only way you can remain with Alistair in any capacity is if you Harden Alistair and pick the right dialogue choices. You can remain as Alistair's mistress/lover, but marriage is not mentioned. In the post-Landsmeet scene Alistair is upset but is ready to make the sacrifices he needs to be the king, including breaking up with you in order to marry and produce an heir. The dialogue you must choose basically reminds him to do what HE wants and F all the rest.

I know that, I've played DA:O tons of times lol.

What I meant is, hypothetically, if the female Warden mage wanted to marry Alistair after the DA:O events had finished, she probably could because she ended the blight, thus making her more than eligible for a special dispensation from the Chantry to wed him,  or any of her companions for that matter.

Modifié par LolaLei, 05 juin 2012 - 02:34 .

[Lady Lystra]

LolaLei wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Oh yeah I'd forgotten about that. But, a female mage could marry Alistair if he's made King because he's in love with the Warden so he would probably be more accepting of the concept.

If you are a mage, the only way you can remain with Alistair in any capacity is if you Harden Alistair and pick the right dialogue choices. You can remain as Alistair's mistress/lover, but marriage is not mentioned. In the post-Landsmeet scene Alistair is upset but is ready to make the sacrifices he needs to be the king, including breaking up with you in order to marry and produce an heir. The dialogue you must choose basically reminds him to do what HE wants and F all the rest.

I know that, I've played DA:O tons of times lol.

What I meant is, hypothetically, if the female Warden mage wanted to marry Alistair after the DA:O events had finished, she probably could because she ended the blight, thus making her more than eligible for a special dispensation from the Chantry to wed him,  or any of her companions for that matter.

That could happen, but isn't it basically against Chantry law for mages to marry? Even if your Mage Warden ended the Blight, she is still a Mage. Magic should serve Man, never to rule over him.

[LolaLei]

Lady Lystra wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Oh yeah I'd forgotten about that. But, a female mage could marry Alistair if he's made King because he's in love with the Warden so he would probably be more accepting of the concept.

If you are a mage, the only way you can remain with Alistair in any capacity is if you Harden Alistair and pick the right dialogue choices. You can remain as Alistair's mistress/lover, but marriage is not mentioned. In the post-Landsmeet scene Alistair is upset but is ready to make the sacrifices he needs to be the king, including breaking up with you in order to marry and produce an heir. The dialogue you must choose basically reminds him to do what HE wants and F all the rest.

I know that, I've played DA:O tons of times lol.

What I meant is, hypothetically, if the female Warden mage wanted to marry Alistair after the DA:O events had finished, she probably could because she ended the blight, thus making her more than eligible for a special dispensation from the Chantry to wed him,  or any of her companions for that matter.

That could happen, but isn't it basically against Chantry law for mages to marry? Even if your Mage Warden ended the Blight, she is still a Mage. Magic should serve Man, never to rule over him.

Apparently mages can marry if they are extra, extra good or do something outstanding. I guess it's like a reward or something.

[nightscrawl]

LolaLei wrote...

What I meant is, hypothetically, if the female Warden mage wanted to marry Alistair after the DA:O events had finished, she probably could because she ended the blight, thus making her more than eligible for a special dispensation from the Chantry to wed him,  or any of her companions for that matter.

Perhaps. Alistair never characterized the Grand Cleric as being especially pliant. However, I'll grant you that popular public opinion can be especially powerful.

Whether Alistair would marry her is another story. It depends on how politically minded he is (as well as his advisers: Arl Eamon, Bann Teagan, etc). By keeping himself open to marriage he can cultivate the relationships of the various nobility in Ferelden by letting them hope for a viable marriage in the future, which could be very helpful to him in the rebuilding process after the Blight.

Of course, I think that Alistair would consider that extremely distasteful, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't go though with it, or at least consider it as a plan with some merit. We (the player and Alistair) involved ourselves in some heavy political intrigue during the barely averted Ferelden civil war, so it's not a totally foreign mode of thinking for him.

And too, after his actions at the Landsmeet regarding Loghain as well as his actions during the Silent Grove comic, I think only David Gaider really knows how Alistair would behave in any given situation. This sort of character development for him is one of the reasons I like Alistair so much, and also why I think he would make a good king, even though he doesn't want to rule. He's quite interesting, having multiple layers, like an onion.


I expounded a bit too much on Alistair here, sorry about that. Back to mages.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 05 juin 2012 - 11:11 .

[Emzamination]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Aside from the fact there was no catalyst for it, none of the boons came up except the one which couldn't be ignored.

Magi boon was ignored in narratives that dealt with Circle mages, and I see that as an issue.

Emzamination wrote...

Alistair and Anora making a declaration does not mean the matter is closed.A perfect example of this is when the chantry supersedes the crown's direct order regardining anders.The chantry has existed for one thousand years and their power base is far stronger and stretches far wider than a newly elected monarch.

Rylock tried to commit murder. Her actions don't appear to have been sanctioned in the warehouse, and Grey Wardens don't operate under the auspices of the Chantry. See Gsider's quote about the children of mages above to see shy Grey Warden mages don't have to surrender their children to the Chantry.

Emzamination wrote...

I've played act 3 with an origin's import and meredith's statement proves it was granted.

You heard wrong then, because Gaider's quote above confirms that it wasn't granted.

Emzamination wrote...

No, that's just a fancy way of saying Dao was originally intended to be one game but since it was so well received, bioware decided to make a sequel.Any retcon they make to Dao is justified in that regard.

When it negates player choice, I respectfully disagree.

The boon not being mentioned is not a retcon.The dwarven paragon status wasn't mentioned either but it's still exist.

No, she was attempting an arrest because anders was about to do something completely against chantry law which is her right as a templar.Just because a grey warden mage isn't bound to the circle does not mean they are completely exempt from chantry law, no one is.

That statement was made over a year ago,no? It's pretty difficult to misinterpret all mages were declared free but if you want to continue to take gaider's statement to heart, go ahead.I however will go by what's in game.

Someone you kill over an argument of who is right and who is wrong returning is not a retcon of significance because their death had no significance.The arch demon,mother, leliana's master,the dwarven canidate who lost are examples of significant kills that can be argued as retcons because their deaths actually had meaning.

[Lady Lystra]

nightscrawl wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

What I meant is, hypothetically, if the female Warden mage wanted to marry Alistair after the DA:O events had finished, she probably could because she ended the blight, thus making her more than eligible for a special dispensation from the Chantry to wed him,  or any of her companions for that matter.

Perhaps. Alistair never characterized the Grand Cleric as being especially pliant. However, I'll grant you that popular public opinion can be especially powerful.

Whether Alistair would marry her is another story. It depends on how politically minded he is (as well as his advisers: Arl Eamon, Bann Teagan, etc). By keeping himself open to marriage he can cultivate the relationships of the various nobility in Ferelden by letting them hope for a viable marriage in the future, which could be very helpful to him in the rebuilding process after the Blight.

Of course, I think that Alistair would consider that extremely distasteful, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't go though with it, or at least consider it as a plan with some merit. We (the player and Alistair) involved ourselves in some heavy political intrigue during the barely averted Ferelden civil war, so it's not a totally foreign mode of thinking for him.

And too, after his actions at the Landsmeet regarding Loghain as well as his actions during the Silent Grove comic, I think only David Gaider really knows how Alistair would behave in any given situation. This sort of character development for him is one of the reasons I like Alistair so much, and also why I think he would make a good king, even though he doesn't want to rule. He's quite interesting, having multiple layers, like an onion.


I expounded a bit too much on Alistair here, sorry about that. Back to mages.

LOL! I love Alistair. Anyhoo, Even if the Grand Cleric of Ferelden went along with it, the Divine definitely would not. I base that on watching Dawn of the Seeker. Especially after the 10 year gathering.

[LobselVith8]

Emzamination wrote...

The boon not being mentioned is not a retcon.The dwarven paragon status wasn't mentioned either but it's still exist.

You misunderstood me. When Awakening and Witch Hunt ignore the Magi boon despite the two narratives involving Circle mages, I see it as a problem. I see the shift between how Origins treated the Magi boon, especially the US ending (where the ruler orders Greagoir to let the mages govern themselves), and how Dragon Age 2 treated it, as a recton.

Emzamination wrote...

No, she was attempting an arrest because anders was about to do something completely against chantry law which is her right as a templar.Just because a grey warden mage isn't bound to the circle does not mean they are completely exempt from chantry law, no one is.

Rylock can't attempt to murder Anders or the Warden-Commander simply because the Warden-Commander wouldn't hand Anders over. Rylock had no proof, and no authority to make any demand from the Warden-Commander.

Emzamination wrote...

That statement was made over a year ago,no? It's pretty difficult to misinterpret all mages were declared free but if you want to continue to take gaider's statement to heart, go ahead.I however will go by what's in game.

The stament addressed why the Magi boon was turned down, post-Origins. Considering you're ignoring Meredith's statement that the King had no authority to make such a declaration, you can't claim the game supports you.

Emzamination wrote...

Someone you kill over an argument of who is right and who is wrong returning is not a retcon of significance because their death had no significance.The arch demon,mother, leliana's master,the dwarven canidate who lost are examples of significant kills that can be argued as retcons because their deaths actually had meaning.

It's significance is debatable.

[nightscrawl]

Lady Lystra wrote...

LOL! I love Alistair. Anyhoo, Even if the Grand Cleric of Ferelden went along with it, the Divine definitely would not. I base that on watching Dawn of the Seeker. Especially after the 10 year gathering.

According to the timeline here**, that Divine is Beatrix III (I doubt it was Faustine II as Cassandra isn't that old) who died in 9:34 Dragon, just four years after the Blight ended. The current Divine, Justinia V, and the one featured in Asunder, is quite a bit younger (ie fresh perspective) and from that novel didn't seem unwilling to be reasonable as far as mages were concerned.


** BUT, parts of that timeline are contradictory or faulty depending on information source, specifically with regard to Faustine II who supposedly reigned in 8:99 Blessed, but would have had to die long before then to comply with the next statement about Beatrix III that she "Held the office for almost 50 years," from Asunder, which would have been impossible if she reigned from 8:99 Blessed / 9:01 Dragon to 9:34 Dragon.

So, the wiki, nor Bioware itself, isn't always consistent with its own information. And no, I don't regard items of historical significance that include dates and such the same as other "subjective information/rumor/conjecture" in the Codex. These should be verifiable facts, and to be honest, the writers should have a timeline that they follow for such things.

[cowoline]

nightscrawl wrote...

Lady Lystra wrote...

LOL! I love Alistair. Anyhoo, Even if the Grand Cleric of Ferelden went along with it, the Divine definitely would not. I base that on watching Dawn of the Seeker. Especially after the 10 year gathering.

According to the timeline here**, that Divine is Beatrix III (I doubt it was Faustine II as Cassandra isn't that old) who died in 9:34 Dragon, just four years after the Blight ended. The current Divine, Justinia V, and the one featured in Asunder, is quite a bit younger (ie fresh perspective) and from that novel didn't seem unwilling to be reasonable as far as mages were concerned.


** BUT, parts of that timeline are contradictory or faulty depending on information source, specifically with regard to Faustine II who supposedly reigned in 8:99 Blessed, but would have had to die long before then to comply with the next statement about Beatrix III that she "Held the office for almost 50 years," from Asunder, which would have been impossible if she reigned from 8:99 Blessed / 9:01 Dragon to 9:34 Dragon.

So, the wiki, nor Bioware itself, isn't always consistent with its own information. And no, I don't regard items of historical significance that include dates and such the same as other "subjective information/rumor/conjecture" in the Codex. These should be verifiable facts, and to be honest, the writers should have a timeline that they follow for such things.

Dawn of the seeker is happening after Kirkwall, since the knight-commander states that the reason they are trying to take over is so that what happened in Kirkwall won't happen again. So I believe it is Justina V who is the divine at this point.