180 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Il Divo wrote...
That's why I think they should have just left the motive unexplored. The problem is that the reasoning which the Catalyst gives us is so bad that it makes basic logic cry. And seems in stark contrast to Bioware's usual style of story-telling (exposition, exposition, exposition). There's nothing wrong with omitting details, but here it's uncharacteristic of Bioware (since NwN) and left many players banging their heads.

Hmm... they could have gotten around that, I guess, but it would have required gradual Reaper reveals all throughout the game -- doing a massive bunch of exposition at the end would just stop the game in its tracks. And then we'd all ask why we're getting information that the Protheans couldn't get. I guess it could have been done by having all the info present in the (ruins of the) Collector base. Which would mean making Cerberus even more important to the plot than it already is.

Ultimately, when engaged in the fight against genocide, motive isn't really important; survival is. If motivation allows us a better chance of surviving, then it's helpful. But in this case, the Catalyst doesn't do this effectively. At the end of the day, the synthetic-organic line fills the same terrible role as dark energy, by forcing a choice on the player regarding something outside their control and making the Reapers seem benevolent. But at least dark energy did have some amount of foreshadowing in ME2 (Gianna Parasini, Haelstrom, codex entries, etc).  

True, but at least the current ending offers both real choices and a (badly implemented) resolution. The thing that makes the dark energy plot worse for me is that it would be Connor in Redcliffe all over again, except on steroids. You've got two choices, where one choice is to make a painful sacrifice and the other choice is  -- supposedly -- risky. We all know how that works in a Bio game. Unless they did the "The Lady, or the Tiger" bit and didn't tell us whether Shepard made the right choice or not. Wonder how that would have gone over?

[Il Divo]

AlanC9 wrote...

Hmm... they could have gotten around that, I guess, but it would have required gradual Reaper reveals all throughout the game -- doing a massive bunch of exposition at the end would just stop the game in its tracks. And then we'd all ask why we're getting information that the Protheans couldn't get. I guess it could have been done by having all the info present in the (ruins of the) Collector base. Which would mean making Cerberus even more important to the plot than it already is.

The best foil to ME3's ending that I can think of really is ME1, comparing Vigil to the Catalyst. The characters are supposed to fill the same function, bringing everything together. Vigil fills in the blanks, while the Catalyst adds more to the picture.

The prime reason we're getting information the Protheans didn't have is that at this point we are speaking to the Reaper head honcho. Ultimately, Shepard/the Player wants to know because he just tossed us a plot twist.

True, but at least the current ending offers both real choices and a (badly implemented) resolution. The thing that makes the dark energy plot worse for me is that it would be Connor in Redcliffe all over again, except on steroids. You've got two choices, where one choice is to make a painful sacrifice and the other choice is  -- supposedly -- risky. We all know how that works in a Bio game. Unless they did the "The Lady, or the Tiger" bit and didn't tell us whether Shepard made the right choice or not. Wonder how that would have gone over?

Ah, but that's the problem: the ending didn't offer a real choice, having constructed the Catalyst's logic in the last five minutes of the story. Compare that to any other instance of ME3. When we settled the Genophage conflict, the game made us choose between military strength (sabotage the cure) and morality/allies (keep the cure) and  was developed over the past three games. Likewise with the Geth/Quarians. When setting up a difficult choice for the player, it's usually better to set up a context for that choice before-hand.

The problem with Redcliffe comes down to Bioware giving the player a cop-out, which is what the Mage pathway is. It indisputably has the best results: no one dies, demon defeated, etc. As written, the dark energy doesn't  have to do that. Remember: the endings as written don't tell us if we've made the right or wrong choice. The Dark Energy variation doesn't have to do that either.

Modifié par Il Divo, 11 juin 2012 - 04:17 .

[AlanC9]

Well, I was going from just the sketch of the choice that Drew Karpyshyn posted. I suppose a dark energy plot could have led to a different set of choices. But either the Reaper plan to combat the problem is a good one or it isn't. And given that the Reapers have been working on the plan for -- how many years? -- it's a little difficult to imagine that there are alternatives they haven't considered already.

[Il Divo]

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, I was going from just the sketch of the choice that Drew Karpyshyn posted. I suppose a dark energy plot could have led to a different set of choices. But either the Reaper plan to combat the problem is a good one or it isn't. And given that the Reapers have been working on the plan for -- how many years? -- it's a little difficult to imagine that there are alternatives they haven't considered already.

But given the nature of their claims, they've posed a solution to something which we don't even know is a real problem. The Catalyst doesn't tell us anything about this. He doesn't give even the bare minimum.

It would be like me saying to you "All Republics will eventually become corrupt, so we should destroy them" without giving you any basis for my claim. If we're going to introduce controversy and new characters in the last five minutes and the story is going to present me with choices based on that controversy, then it should have framing exposition. 
 
In the case of Dark Energy, we have, with or without the Reapers, seen evidence of its destructive potential.

[Lamepro]

Question how the hell does the accelerate the expansion of the universe become a threat to the Reapers?

[jojon2se]

The idea is that the expansion comes with entropy, as Mass Effect field generation is a product of the conversion of matter into dark matter, with eezo as a catalyst, of sorts.

Once all energy potential is spent, and the galaxy is one uniform, uni-temperate blanket; what would the Reapers live off of?