77 réponses à ce sujet

[AxeloftheKey]

 Okay, this is my big contention point with IT. One of the pieces of evidences for it is that "Harbinger would never fly away." If Shepard is being indoctrinated, ACTIVELY being indoctrinated, Reapers need to be nearby. Harbinger was the one firing the laser, and it is established before the run to the beam that several Harbinger-class Reapers are headed for the Conduit. If the beam knocked Shepard unconscious and the Reapers/Harbinger are trying to indoctrinate him, when he wakes up he will be:
1. Surrounded by at least one or more Harbinger-class Reaper, including Harbinger himself
2. Be injured/damaged likely about as much or more than he was in the sequence we played
3. Have little/no backup like ships or whatnot because they're likely too busy fighting above the atmosphere and can't get there in time

So, the moment Shepard fails to be indoctrinated, the Reapers are definitely gonna shoot him with a laser. And he might not wake up/get up all that quickly after stopping the indoctrination attempt, so they have ample time to rain lasers and husks all over his body and murder him.

IT will not provide for some happy, get-out-of-bad-ending-free card. It leaves Shepard in a terrible position to accomplish absolutely nothing. If you'd be happier with an ending where Shepard was almost indoctrinated, rejected it, and then gets shot and dies ingloriously, great. But I prefer an ending where my hero has the chance to accomplish something, even if it's not the greatest-written thing in the world.

[Vox Draco]

All I see are amazing possiblities and not much of a problem, as we really don't have any clue how the situation around shepard REALLY is. All we have are the words of that Major..who...ah well, let's say I do not trust him aynway. Therefore:

1. Just imagine an incredible wake-up cutscene showing Joker crash-landing the Normandy into Harbinger or any other Reaper nearby to get rid of this problem. All the while the remains of the allied forces, including surviving squadmates and war-assets like, for example Wrex and his Krogans or Jack and her biotics, are rushing to secure Shepards body, fighting and sacrificing themselves to make sure the hero that made everything possible might survive. It could be an incredibly strong and emotional scene, showing how all the races allied with each other due to Shepard's efforts fight together to make her safe...

Just imagine further: Geth Primes dropping down, shielding Quarian special forces, Krogans fighting back to back with Turians or even salarians, Asari biotics wiping away whole legions of husks while shepard squad is doing their best to wake Shepard up/patch her up. Soemthing like this would give me shivers of delight...

2. Shepard is tough. And synthetically enhanced. There is always med-gel. And even if her body-armour is scorched we have not really seen if her condition is physically as bad as shown in the scenes with TIM and the catalyst. And even there she was able to tun/walk without any signs of injury when doing the choices like red or green. Remember: According to IT everything after the Harby-Beam is likely not to be real...So I do not see many problems to get Shepard back up...

But maybe NOT right after  she woke up. She should be evacuated first, giving the game some narrative-time and pause to set the plot for whatever comes next...

3. As said before, we really have no idea how bad/desperate/okay the situation really is at this moment, or even how much time has passed.

After shepard is awake everything can be done. I can even see a battle Shepard vs. Harbinger BEFORE she wakes up, taking place entirely in her mind right after she shot the symbolic tubes. And beating Harbinger on this battleground could make him vulnerable for assault in the real world, solving this problem in two ways (see Saren/Sovereign)

and all this are just some ideas I toyed around with lately, and I fail to see how IT really is a problem. It opens so many doors to so many ways to give Shepard a worthy ending it would be silly no to go there. But if you are against IT anyway, of course you'll try your best to ignore these possibilities and brsuh them away with non-backed-up arguments like "all nonsense" etc...at least I often get this impression from many anti-IT-arguments 

Of course, it would require additional gameplay, but hey...I'd rather hope for something like this than to get face-value clarification for the last five minutes...


 

[Silhouett3]

I remember the old IT threat discussed this in a few of its thousandfivehundred pages. Reapers would always favor indoctrinating Shep as long as he/s is not about to pull some plug. They why Harbinger showed close interest with Shep in ME2.

The squad/Normandy can save Shep from Harbinger (personally I'd like scene like Admiral Hackett pulling a Tassadar and drive his ship into Harbingers beam or sth)
Also Shep can still use the conduit(injured or not) and Reapers may pull another indoctrination tricks at Citadel

[Bill Casey]

AxeloftheKey wrote...

If the beam knocked Shepard unconscious

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

Modifié par Bill Casey, 02 juin 2012 - 07:39 .

[Gorkan86]

Vox Draco wrote...

 Remember: According to IT everything after the Harby-Beam is likely not to be real...So I do not see many problems to get Shepard back up...

Not quite correct. According to "Dream IT", all things after Harby laser-show is real, until Shepard arrive to the Citadel.

[Mcfly616]

The whole point to IT is that we don't know what happens after he wakes, because its just a second chance for Bioware to create a halfway decent ending.....point is, they have the freedom to take it anywhere when he wakes up

[Eryri]

Vox Draco wrote...
snip
After shepard is awake everything can be done. I can even see a battle Shepard vs. Harbinger BEFORE she wakes up, taking place entirely in her mind right after she shot the symbolic tubes. And beating Harbinger on this battleground could make him vulnerable for assault in the real world, solving this problem in two ways (see Saren/Sovereign)

and all this are just some ideas I toyed around with lately, and I fail to see how IT really is a problem. It opens so many doors to so many ways to give Shepard a worthy ending it would be silly no to go there. But if you are against IT anyway, of course you'll try your best to ignore these possibilities and brsuh them away with non-backed-up arguments like "all nonsense" etc...at least I often get this impression from many anti-IT-arguments 

Of course, it would require additional gameplay, but hey...I'd rather hope for something like this than to get face-value clarification for the last five minutes...

Absolutely!  This is the exact same thing that I've been head-cannoning to improve the ending. I can envisage a fantastic solo battle between Shepard and some sort of Harbinger avatar within a nightmarish landscape inside Shepard's mind. Maybe the forest from Shepard's dreams? Harbinger could take the form of a "mirror image" Shepard with Shepard's powers and abilities. Shep and Harby could be chasing each other through the trees, ambushing and sniping at each other. It could be absolutely awesome, and a welcome change of environment from the usual spaceship / urban battlefields in the rest of the game. At the conclusion of the fight, when Shep satisfyingly dispatches Harbinger, he or she would wake up to find the real Harbinger disoriented and vulnerable al la Sovereign in ME1.

[Dendio1]

Mcfly616 wrote...

The whole point to IT is that we don't know what happens after he wakes, because its just a second chance for Bioware to create a halfway decent ending.....point is, they have the freedom to take it anywhere when he wakes up

I would love IT to be true.
The problem is they released a statement to the public saying they will not be changing the ending of the game. It can't get any clearer than that.

[UrgentArchengel]

Dendio1 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

The whole point to IT is that we don't know what happens after he wakes, because its just a second chance for Bioware to create a halfway decent ending.....point is, they have the freedom to take it anywhere when he wakes up

I would love IT to be true.
The problem is they released a statement to the public saying they will not be changing the ending of the game. It can't get any clearer than that.

They've said lots of things in public that turned out to be complete lies. I wouldn't believe a single thing until it's released.

[SackofCat]

They could add 7 more hours of gameplay and exposition; climax, denouement, and epilogue. They could explain what really happened at what was the end on the disk. They could add most, if not all, of the things fans asked for. Given enough time, creativity, and money almost anything can happen.

[Vox Draco]

Eryri wrote...Absolutely!  This is the exact same thing that I've been head-cannoning to improve the ending. I can envisage a fantastic solo battle between Shepard and some sort of Harbinger avatar within a nightmarish landscape inside Shepard's mind. Maybe the forest from Shepard's dreams? Harbinger could take the form of a "mirror image" Shepard with Shepard's powers and abilities. Shep and Harby could be chasing each other through the trees, ambushing and sniping at each other. It could be absolutely awesome, and a welcome change of environment from the usual spaceship / urban battlefields in the rest of the game. At the conclusion of the fight, when Shep satisfyingly dispatches Harbinger, he or she would wake up to find the real Harbinger disoriented and vulnerable al la Sovereign in ME1.

I posted this idea here about a week ago in the IT Mark II thread, but I really love the idea and want more people to see it, because it really, really "proves" that It could lead to awesome ways to exapnd the story...


Shepard chooses destroy, but I always thought just waking up is rather...lame. I would prefer Shepard to really fight her way out of Harbinger's grip. So after you blew up the tube and made the first step in denying the Reaper's logic and right to exist...you "awake" in one of the these three locations...

1. Colony of Mindoir, just under attack by Batarian Slavers
2. A slum-district in an unknown Mega-City on Earth, ruled by crime and gangs
3. An Alliance Spaceship or Spacestation

I hope you see where I am heading...the next step of Shepard's fight is still inside her head, and leads her to her past. Not the real past though, a twisted, nightmarish version, influenced by the Reapers and Harbinger, who try to lure you away from your path, despair you, use your fears against you. This part would mostly be dialouge, evading combat, or based on renegade/paragon-interrupts etc. You are still a teenager and not a supersoldier after all. The next phase would lead us to more real combat though:

1: Akuze, where you fight actively against hordes of Thresher-Maws and see your whole squad dying
2. Torfan, where you sacrifice your entire team to get the job done and kill all Batarians
3. The Battle of the Skyllian Bliz, where you fight against an army of pirates to save the city

Again, everything here would be twisted and altered, maybe enemies with huskified appearance, and surreal elements. Harbinger would always accompany us like in ME2, mocking us, trying to deceive us to make different choices and leave the path of truth. I would love to see a "nightmarish" version of Hannah Shepard...

The final chapter could be all the same for everyone, and feature an important mission from ME1, maybe Virmire, though totally different this time...like forcing you to sacrifice your current LI no matter what (even if he/she wasn't present then, its a dream, so many possibilites)...

[SackofCat]

I can't edit my post on my iPod touch.

I wanted to say sorry to the OP as I wouldn't call myself an ITist so feel free to ignore my post.

[DangerSandler]

Shepard wakes up, pwns the Reapers, lives happily ever after with LI.

End of story.

[Mcfly616]

DangerSandler wrote...

Shepard wakes up, pwns the Reapers, lives happily ever after with LI.

End of story.

On two! On two! Ready, break!

[EsterCloat]

ITers don't care. They have their headcanon that negates the ending, so they're happy.

[Talogrungi]

Dendio1 wrote...

I would love IT to be true.
The problem is they released a statement to the public saying they will not be changing the ending of the game. It can't get any clearer than that.

IT wouldn't be "changing the current ending", it would be adding to it.

Since everything that happens in the current ending still happens in IT; the only difference is that Shepard wakes up after the credits roll (such as in the "breathing" scene) and the story continues to a proper conclusion.

No change, just addition.

[Vox Draco]

EsterCloat wrote...

ITers don't care for the endings to be taken literal, as it is senseless and an insult to most players anyway. They have their inspiring headcanon based on actual Mass Effect Lore and ideas from Bioware that negates improves the ending beyond awesome, so they're happy and a whole lot of neutral ones as well.

So, now your post is a little closer to reality

[Provo_101]

Vox Draco wrote...

I posted this idea here about a week ago in the IT Mark II thread, but I really love the idea and want more people to see it, because it really, really "proves" that It could lead to awesome ways to exapnd the story...


Shepard chooses destroy, but I always thought just waking up is rather...lame. I would prefer Shepard to really fight her way out of Harbinger's grip. So after you blew up the tube and made the first step in denying the Reaper's logic and right to exist...you "awake" in one of the these three locations...

1. Colony of Mindoir, just under attack by Batarian Slavers
2. A slum-district in an unknown Mega-City on Earth, ruled by crime and gangs
3. An Alliance Spaceship or Spacestation

I hope you see where I am heading...the next step of Shepard's fight is still inside her head, and leads her to her past. Not the real past though, a twisted, nightmarish version, influenced by the Reapers and Harbinger, who try to lure you away from your path, despair you, use your fears against you. This part would mostly be dialouge, evading combat, or based on renegade/paragon-interrupts etc. You are still a teenager and not a supersoldier after all. The next phase would lead us to more real combat though:

1: Akuze, where you fight actively against hordes of Thresher-Maws and see your whole squad dying
2. Torfan, where you sacrifice your entire team to get the job done and kill all Batarians
3. The Battle of the Skyllian Bliz, where you fight against an army of pirates to save the city

Again, everything here would be twisted and altered, maybe enemies with huskified appearance, and surreal elements. Harbinger would always accompany us like in ME2, mocking us, trying to deceive us to make different choices and leave the path of truth. I would love to see a "nightmarish" version of Hannah Shepard...

The final chapter could be all the same for everyone, and feature an important mission from ME1, maybe Virmire, though totally different this time...like forcing you to sacrifice your current LI no matter what (even if he/she wasn't present then, its a dream, so many possibilites)...

Absolutely brilliant! This would make me retire from gaming entirely, no joke.

As a Colonist/War Hero, having my Shep witness the death of his parents, friends and family AGAIN on Mindoir would be one of the most emotional moments in gaming, and for myself on a personal note. The same goes for the events on Elysium! Shepard's past has never really been touched on other than a quest in ME1 and a few lines in ME2 & 3. This would be the PERFECT way to end things full circle, from Shepard's perspective.

Hell, ANY origin is tragic, really. With the exception of Spacer, which could be remedied in the Harbinger dream (Shepard's father dying perhaps? I don't think we've been given an explanation on him), all origins are tragic in their own way. Having Shep overcome this "Crucible" would be a fitting end to the series...

... As long as he kicks the **** out of Harbinger at the end, of course 

[Drake-Shepard]

1. ''Harbinger would never fly away!!''
2. just like ''the reapers surely would turn off the relays once they got the citadel''
3. or '' the reapers will just turn off that conduit london-to-citadel beam if they see humans attack it''
4. I thought the citadel closes to become an impregnable fortress, that with the fact that the keeper signal is blocked how could they open it and take control??

The problem with an IT ending (as much as i thought this was the case and wanted it before) is that it does not solve points 2-4. So whatever amazing cutscene/ sequence they add it will still suck.

There is also no forshadowing in ME3 other then the 2 mentions of 'servants of a pattern' & 'created, chaos order' crap. So we are stuck with that nonsense.

The only thing that can improve is your assets actually making a difference in a suicide style hammer team run and some sort of 'clarification' so we can be sure exactly why the ending is bad rather then speculate why its bad.

[EsterCloat]

Vox Draco wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

ITers don't care for the endings to be taken literal, as it is senseless and an insult to most players anyway. They have their inspiring headcanon based on actual Mass Effect Lore and ideas from Bioware that negates improves the ending beyond awesome, so they're happy and a whole lot of neutral ones as well.

So, now your post is a little closer to reality

That was rather long winded. I suppose it comes naturally.

[Vox Draco]

EsterCloat wrote...
That was rather long winded. I suppose it comes naturally.

Longwinded? You seem to have no idea what that could mean if I get serious...

[Vox Draco]

Provo_101 wrote...
Hell, ANY origin is tragic, really. With the exception of Spacer, which could be remedied in the Harbinger dream (Shepard's father dying perhaps? I don't think we've been given an explanation on him), all origins are tragic in their own way. Having Shep overcome this "Crucible" would be a fitting end to the series...

I thought of the "early" past for spacer of something like a "training parcours" on some spacestation, maybe preparing shepard for her future as alliance soldier. Here she would be confronted with all the pressure and high expectations her surroundings, parents, family history would lay on her shoulders. And yeah, why not having Papa Shep's death play a role here as well...

Though it simply HAD to end with Hannah Shepard's appearance Banshee-style...no way around that!

[EsterCloat]

Vox Draco wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...
That was rather long winded. I suppose it comes naturally.

Longwinded? You seem to have no idea what that could mean if I get serious...

Go ahead if you want.

[xbb1024]

So, what do you ITers think is gonna happen after Shepard "wakes up"?

Shepard discovers he/she is another Harbinger wipeing out the civilizations of the next cycle.

[DanielsMind]

If IT is real and you wake I would love to see your LI try to help you up but if your EMS is low Anderson picks you up instead.