77 réponses à ce sujet

[Baa Baa]

Vox Draco wrote...

All I see are amazing possiblities and not much of a problem, as we really don't have any clue how the situation around shepard REALLY is. All we have are the words of that Major..who...ah well, let's say I do not trust him aynway. Therefore:

1. Just imagine an incredible wake-up cutscene showing Joker crash-landing the Normandy into Harbinger or any other Reaper nearby to get rid of this problem. All the while the remains of the allied forces, including surviving squadmates and war-assets like, for example Wrex and his Krogans or Jack and her biotics, are rushing to secure Shepards body, fighting and sacrificing themselves to make sure the hero that made everything possible might survive. It could be an incredibly strong and emotional scene, showing how all the races allied with each other due to Shepard's efforts fight together to make her safe...

Just imagine further: Geth Primes dropping down, shielding Quarian special forces, Krogans fighting back to back with Turians or even salarians, Asari biotics wiping away whole legions of husks while shepard squad is doing their best to wake Shepard up/patch her up. Soemthing like this would give me shivers of delight...

2. Shepard is tough. And synthetically enhanced. There is always med-gel. And even if her body-armour is scorched we have not really seen if her condition is physically as bad as shown in the scenes with TIM and the catalyst. And even there she was able to tun/walk without any signs of injury when doing the choices like red or green. Remember: According to IT everything after the Harby-Beam is likely not to be real...So I do not see many problems to get Shepard back up...

But maybe NOT right after  she woke up. She should be evacuated first, giving the game some narrative-time and pause to set the plot for whatever comes next...

3. As said before, we really have no idea how bad/desperate/okay the situation really is at this moment, or even how much time has passed.

After shepard is awake everything can be done. I can even see a battle Shepard vs. Harbinger BEFORE she wakes up, taking place entirely in her mind right after she shot the symbolic tubes. And beating Harbinger on this battleground could make him vulnerable for assault in the real world, solving this problem in two ways (see Saren/Sovereign)

and all this are just some ideas I toyed around with lately, and I fail to see how IT really is a problem. It opens so many doors to so many ways to give Shepard a worthy ending it would be silly no to go there. But if you are against IT anyway, of course you'll try your best to ignore these possibilities and brsuh them away with non-backed-up arguments like "all nonsense" etc...at least I often get this impression from many anti-IT-arguments 

Of course, it would require additional gameplay, but hey...I'd rather hope for something like this than to get face-value clarification for the last five minutes...


 

Badass, this part (bold) reminds me of a scene from Spiderman 2. It was actually a good scene but would be perfect in ME3. (The scene where Peter stops the train and as he is about to fall all the passengers aid him while he's unconscious and help him back into the train.) This scene could have a great emotional impact.

[Navasha]

Well, if I was writing it, then it happens like this:

Wakes up bloodied and broken in the pile of rubble. Comes to the realization about what just occurred and that the crucible is indeed just a gigantic reaper trap and that the true weakness of the reapers is indeed the crucible itself and the AI contained within.

Since Shepard is out of the fight physically, she radios Hackett about the reaper AI contained within the citadel and that it is just waiting for the completed crucible to be hooked up to the citadel so that they can complete their reaper trap. Hackett than orders all remaining ships to open fire on the crucible while its powering up and the blast of it exploding destroys the citadel and the catalyst reaper inside.

Without the catalyst, as the originator, of the indoctrination signals, everything that was indoctrinated suddenly snaps back to themselves, including...... wait for it....

THE REAPERS, which turn out to be nothing more than an ancient species that was first indoctrinated and were serving against their will. In the end there was only the 'child' AI that was to blame for everything.

[Vox Draco]

Eryri wrote...
Hear Hear! Reality is vastly over rated. Video games are supposed to be fun and entertaining after all.

I think if the entertainment-factor is big enough reality can take a step back, at least in a story like Mass Effect. Though of course that doesn't mean reality should take so many steps back it falls off the cliff, thinking about the literal interpreation of the current ending. But then, I cannot think of a less entertaining climax like the catalyst-conversation  anyway...

If the only argument against a "Shepard wakes up" is that it might lead to "unrealistic situations", well, than take a look at all the fuacks I don't give about that! I have plenty! I want to see Sehpard doing the impossible, to comeback one last time. Damn, the most memorable scene for me in the ME-Series still is from ME1 at the end, when Shepard holding her broken arms crawls out of the ruins, with the coolest grin of the galaxy on her face.

I want the Edning of ME3 like THIS! I want Shepard to triumph, even if it will be a triumph among ruins and millions of casualties. But I want that triumph of hope, achieved on her own terms, by her own actions! And only a living, breathing, talking Shepard can provide me with this. no Starbinger, no solutions to silly problems, no colurs...

[Eryri]

Vox Draco wrote...

Eryri wrote...
Hear Hear! Reality is vastly over rated. Video games are supposed to be fun and entertaining after all.

I think if the entertainment-factor is big enough reality can take a step back, at least in a story like Mass Effect. Though of course that doesn't mean reality should take so many steps back it falls off the cliff, thinking about the literal interpreation of the current ending. But then, I cannot think of a less entertaining climax like the catalyst-conversation  anyway...

If the only argument against a "Shepard wakes up" is that it might lead to "unrealistic situations", well, than take a look at all the fuacks I don't give about that! I have plenty! I want to see Sehpard doing the impossible, to comeback one last time. Damn, the most memorable scene for me in the ME-Series still is from ME1 at the end, when Shepard holding her broken arms crawls out of the ruins, with the coolest grin of the galaxy on her face.

I want the Edning of ME3 like THIS! I want Shepard to triumph, even if it will be a triumph among ruins and millions of casualties. But I want that triumph of hope, achieved on her own terms, by her own actions! And only a living, breathing, talking Shepard can provide me with this. no Starbinger, no solutions to silly problems, no colurs...

Agree completely, particularly about the dull anti-climax of the catalyst conversation. 

I think Bioware took the criticism of the Terminator-esque boss battle at the end of ME2 too much to heart and decided to remove the final boss completely, instead of trying to improve on it in ME3.

Personally I enjoyed the final boss of ME2 (I'm a sucker for an old-school boss fight) and I think almost any video game like this needs to end on some sort of game-play climax alongside the dramatic climax to the story. As it was the game just sort of stopped rather than ending on an adrenaline-fuelled high.

That's why I've got my fingers crossed for some sort of Harbinger boss fight in the EC, be it a mental one or in the "real" world.

[alec1898]

You sound so...

Certain.

[Eryri]

alec1898 wrote...

You sound so...

Certain.

I'd say we were more cautiously optimistic.

Of course we may be setting ourselves up for another disappointment, but at least we've let Bioware know that we like the idea of the I.T., even if it wasn't their original intention.

[Vox Draco]

Eryri wrote...
Agree completely, particularly about the dull anti-climax of the catalyst conversation. 

I think Bioware took the criticism of the Terminator-esque boss battle at the end of ME2 too much to heart and decided to remove the final boss completely, instead of trying to improve on it in ME3.

Personally I enjoyed the final boss of ME2 (I'm a sucker for an old-school boss fight) and I think almost any video game like this needs to end on some sort of game-play climax alongside the dramatic climax to the story. As it was the game just sort of stopped rather than ending on an adrenaline-fuelled high.

That's why I've got my fingers crossed for some sort of Harbinger boss fight in the EC, be it a mental one or in the "real" world.

I never had issues with the Terminator-Battle. The Saren-Fight was more personal though, but frying that Reaper-Abomination, especially on Insane, was a nice challenge for me. It was fun, and a nice climax and satisfaction before the narrow escape from the base...

Now ME3 loses all momentum after the run to the conduit. The horde-battle before is tense and made me furious sometimes, but after this...we control Shepard limping to the conduit, limping to the console, have a Saren-confrontation with TIM, a heartwarming scene with Anderson...and instead of ending there somehow with a blast again...it goes on and on and on in the same very slow momentum. More exposition, more talk, a char nobody knows of, and the main Protagonist is speechless...

No, this ending as it is has no climax at all. Speaking about climax: ME3 maybe is like sex. Of course the journey is half the fun, but if you are denied the climax in the end you feel kinda...well...you know what I want to say.

ME-series is an epic journey full of emotions, but right before you hit the climax, your partner says "okay, I'll rather wash the dishes/mow the lawn now, bye darling" or suddenly tells you an endless story about what his/her grandma has cooked yesterday...

Modifié par Vox Draco, 02 juin 2012 - 08:02 .

[NoSpin]

Shepard is knocked unconscious and covered in rubble. Joker streaks overhead and engages Harbinger, destroying or damaging him enough to force him to flee. Meanwhile this coincides with the release of a "London" map release in multiplayer. N7 Special Forces either create a diversion or go and find Shepard themselves. (given to us during a weekend "event").

Game continues, we beat the reapers, and my Shep and Tali totally do it on Harbinger's destroyed body. You can go ahead and use this if you're reading Bioware.

[Eryri]

Vox Draco wrote...
snip

No, this ending as it is has no climax at all. Speaking about climax: ME3 maybe is like sex. Of course the journey is half the fun, but if you are denied the climax in the end you feel kinda...well...you know what I want to say.

ME-series is an epic journey full of emotions, but right before you hit the climax, your partner says "okay, I'll rather wash the dishes/mow the lawn now, bye darling" or suddenly tells you an endless story about what his/her grandma has cooked yesterday...

Lol . Nice analogy.

Edit - this review has something pertinent to say on the sensitive subject of "boss battle blue balls". 
http://calitreview.com/25421 

Modifié par Eryri, 02 juin 2012 - 08:13 .

[Lord Goose]

Hackett than orders all remaining ships to open fire on the crucible while its powering up and the blast of it exploding destroys the citadel and the catalyst reaper inside.

So, that means, what all you have accomplished in the third game was a ruse, and you should just have blown up the Citadel?

Seriously, now, that is bad ending.

[Vox Draco]

Eryri wrote...
Lol . Nice analogy.

Edit - this review has something pertinent to say on the sensitive subject of "boss battle blue balls". 
http://calitreview.com/25421 

THANK YOU for this article! If I wasn't sure about my own identity, I might think it was me who wrote it! It even has the sex-analogies...and I thought to be original

There are so many good points brought up in this article. Bos-battles, even though despised by some, are the perfect way to make the player actually FEEL like a hero. ME is a video-game, you should actually PLAY it. Just having a cutscene showing how the badguy gets vaporized can never be as fullfillng as killing the baddie yourself. Because a game is interactive and NOT a movie...

And oh, the climax-gap. So true. The last horde-battle was intense, but never was introduced as a subsitute for a real boss-confrontation, and then twenty minutes later we still haven't had an epic last stand, only philosophical gibberish nobody expected or really wanted to see...

I really, truly hope from the bottom of my heart that Bioware has learned a lesson NOT to forget what medium they are working with. Games are not movies, and shouldn't be. And maybe they are wise enough to actually make the EC more than just "clarification" of the anti-climatic mess it currently seems to be.

Shepard waking up and doing her thing...this could win them backhuge amounts of fans, no matter if tehy are into IT or not...I hope Bioware thinks the same and cares enough...

[Eryri]

Vox Draco wrote...

Eryri wrote...
Lol . Nice analogy.

Edit - this review has something pertinent to say on the sensitive subject of "boss battle blue balls". 
http://calitreview.com/25421 

THANK YOU for this article! If I wasn't sure about my own identity, I might think it was me who wrote it! It even has the sex-analogies...and I thought to be original

You're welcome. I thought it was very insightful when I read it a few weeks ago.

Modifié par Eryri, 02 juin 2012 - 08:46 .

[nightcobra]

Vox Draco wrote...

Eryri wrote...
Lol . Nice analogy.

Edit - this review has something pertinent to say on the sensitive subject of "boss battle blue balls". 
http://calitreview.com/25421 

THANK YOU for this article! If I wasn't sure about my own identity, I might think it was me who wrote it! It even has the sex-analogies...and I thought to be original

There are so many good points brought up in this article. Bos-battles, even though despised by some, are the perfect way to make the player actually FEEL like a hero. ME is a video-game, you should actually PLAY it. Just having a cutscene showing how the badguy gets vaporized can never be as fullfillng as killing the baddie yourself. Because a game is interactive and NOT a movie...

And oh, the climax-gap. So true. The last horde-battle was intense, but never was introduced as a subsitute for a real boss-confrontation, and then twenty minutes later we still haven't had an epic last stand, only philosophical gibberish nobody expected or really wanted to see...

I really, truly hope from the bottom of my heart that Bioware has learned a lesson NOT to forget what medium they are working with. Games are not movies, and shouldn't be. And maybe they are wise enough to actually make the EC more than just "clarification" of the anti-climatic mess it currently seems to be.

Shepard waking up and doing her thing...this could win them backhuge amounts of fans, no matter if tehy are into IT or not...I hope Bioware thinks the same and cares enough...

as for me...

how about when you wake up, your squadmates and anderson escort you to safety along with a platoon of either normal n7 troops or your multiplayer characters that you promoted for the single player, at least they'd be more than extra ems points.

as for how you'd beat the reapers i'd wish the endings would be more affected due to your EMS, with a high enough EMS resulting in the fleets destroying the reapers (with some casualties of course), low enough EMS and the reapers destroy the fleets and continue the cycle, with a "medium EMS" the reapers would be able to destroy one or more sections of the fleet with squadmates like wrex,jack, jacob, grunt and etc having the possibility to die depending on what you order them to do ala suicide mission.
and after the endings we would get the epilogues regarding how well we fought, if we won or not, who survived and what happened to the surviving races.


PS:
if shepard picked the destroy option, he/she resists the indocrination attempt managing to get back to the fight mentioned up above and if reapers are destroyed, shepard lives.

if shepard picked control/destroy, shepard is indocrinated but is able to pull a "benezia" and snap out of it long enough to coordinate the final attack like in the example before and then dying in the end (also since you were indocrinated at this point, how about if shepard has critical reaper information like tactics and weakpoints due to having touched their mind to serve as a boost to the EMS?)


that would be my ideal resolution. 


as for the crucible...i don't know, i suppose we could always use it as a battering ram against harbinger:lol:

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 02 juin 2012 - 08:49 .

[Seival]

The whole point of "IT" is that some group of players don't wanna try to understand the endings, and think they can write the endings better.

[Leafs43]

Seival wrote...

The whole point of "IT" is that some group of players don't wanna try to understand the endings, and think they can write the endings better.

That's rich coming from someone who believes control is the best ending.

[Seival]

Mcfly616 wrote...

The whole point to IT is that we don't know what happens after he wakes, because its just a second chance for Bioware to create a halfway decent ending.....point is, they have the freedom to take it anywhere when he wakes up

I don't think BioWare will ever want to replace the great endings with "halfway decent" endings.

..."IT" is not an option. And you should deal with it.

[Seival]

Leafs43 wrote...

Seival wrote...

The whole point of "IT" is that some group of players don't wanna try to understand the endings, and think they can write the endings better.

That's rich coming from someone who believes control is the best ending.

There is no "best ending". There are 3 different endings... And I prefer Control.

Modifié par Seival, 02 juin 2012 - 09:00 .

[Eryri]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

as for me...

how about when you wake up, your squadmates and anderson escort you to safety along with a platoon of either normal n7 troops or your multiplayer characters that you promoted for the single player, at least they'd be more than extra ems points.

as for how you'd beat the reapers i'd wish the endings would be more affected due to your EMS, with a high enough EMS resulting in the fleets destroying the reapers (with some casualties of course), low enough EMS and the reapers destroy the fleets and continue the cycle, with a "medium EMS" the reapers would be able to destroy one or more sections of the fleet with squadmates like wrex,jack, jacob, grunt and etc having the possibility to die depending on what you order them to do ala suicide mission.
and after the endings we would get the epilogues regarding how well we fought, if we won or not, who survived and what happened to the surviving races.

PS:
if shepard picked the destroy option, he/she resists the indocrination attempt managing to get back to the fight mentioned up above and if reapers are destroyed, shepard lives.

if shepard picked control/destroy, shepard is indocrinated but is able to pull a "benezia" and snap out of it long enough to coordinate the final attack like in the example before and then dying in the end (also since you were indocrinated at this point, how about if shepard has critical reaper information like tactics and weakpoints due to having touched their mind to serve as a boost to the EMS?)


that would be my ideal resolution. 

as for the crucible...i don't know, i suppose we could always use it as a battering ram against harbinger:lol:

Sounds good! Particularly the way you found a practical use for that silly, McGuffin-y plot device of a crucible. 

My only problem with Shepard dying after picking control / synthesis is that on my 1st play through, my Shep stupidly threw himself into the green beam of death, probably because I'd just finished playing Deus Ex Human Revolution and picked the equivalent of synthesis there (where it made more sense). I've heard that the first ending choice you make is recorded semi-permanently in the so-called "Legend save" file, so if the EC uses that I suppose my poor Shep is doomed after all. 

Modifié par Eryri, 02 juin 2012 - 09:06 .

[Zuka999]

Hopefully something surprisingly not ****ty.

[nightcobra]

Seival wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

The whole point to IT is that we don't know what happens after he wakes, because its just a second chance for Bioware to create a halfway decent ending.....point is, they have the freedom to take it anywhere when he wakes up

I don't think BioWare will ever want to replace the great endings with "halfway decent" endings.

..."IT" is not an option. And you should deal with it.

this is about what IF IT is true and what do you think happens afterwards, please keep in topic. 
if this just becomes a flame war against IT and anti-IT i'll report the participants of said mud-slinging.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 02 juin 2012 - 09:08 .

[nightcobra]

Eryri wrote...



Sounds good! Particularly the way you found a practical use for that silly, McGuffin-y plot device. 

My only problem with Shepard dying after picking control / destroy is that my Shep stupidly threw himself into the green beam of death, probably because I'd just finished playing Deus Ex Human Revolution and picked the equivalent of synthesis there (where it made more sense). I've heard that the first ending choice you make is recorded semi-permanently in the so-called "Legend save" file, so I suppose my poor Shep is doomed after all. 

i picked green the first time too, but it was because i was in a daze, tired and didn't know what the hell was happening...and also got the news that an old relative of mine had died just before i got to make the decision.
 

[Eryri]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

i picked green the first time too, but it was because i was in a daze, tired and didn't know what the hell was happening...and also got the news that an old relative of mine had died just before i got to make the decision.
 

I'm sorry to hear that mate. I hope things are better for you now.

[Leafs43]

Seival wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Seival wrote...

The whole point of "IT" is that some group of players don't wanna try to understand the endings, and think they can write the endings better.

That's rich coming from someone who believes control is the best ending.

There is no "best ending". There are 3 different endings... And I prefer Control.

You prefer control because you're oblivious to your choice and yet claim IT'ers after months of critically analyzing the ending know nothing.


That's why it's rich.

[Vox Draco]

Seival wrote...

The whole point of "IT" is that some group of players don't wanna try to understand the endings, and think they can write the endings better.

Funny that this group of players seems to be quite large...and please, keep your insults to yourself. The majority of players has already tried to understand the endings, one result was IT, whichh makes perfect sense according to the game-lore established so far, in contrast to what you believe is the perfect way to end the series...

Much more at least than taking the ending literal, or believing what the kid says.

But be glad, you are the vocal minority happy with the current "stopping" of the game. But insults like the one from you really make me hope all the more that IT would become reality...

Oh and because you are a controller: You ARE also trying to write the ending better: After all, control is ALL about headcanon to make sense...just sayin'

[nightcobra]

Eryri wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

i picked green the first time too, but it was because i was in a daze, tired and didn't know what the hell was happening...and also got the news that an old relative of mine had died just before i got to make the decision.
 

I'm sorry to hear that mate. I hope things are better for you now.

i'm ok, at least it was from old age and peacefully in her sleep. but now each time i reach the ending it's like having a sour taste at the back of your mouth.