604 réponses à ce sujet

[R0Gun13]

Atheosis wrote...

Korolen wrote...

I have come to the conclusion that the Reegar is overpowered and needs a nerf. However, until it receives one, I'll continue to use it to break all the speedrun records. Currently processing my perspective of our 13:49 no rocket run linked in this thread. When it's uploaded I'll post it here, as I think that high-quality reegar gameplay is relevant to a thread discussing the balance of said gun.

No it's not.  Because without even watching the video I know what you did.  You used Infiltrators with Shredder Mods and AP ammo.  That isn't evidence that the weapon is inherently overpowered..  That is evidence that it has some broken interactions with other game elements.  Do those need to be addressed?  Sure.  But it doesn't mean that the weapon's base stats need to be nerfed.

LMFAO  You should really watch the video before making incorrect guesses 

[Atheosis]

R0Gun13 wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Korolen wrote...

I have come to the conclusion that the Reegar is overpowered and needs a nerf. However, until it receives one, I'll continue to use it to break all the speedrun records. Currently processing my perspective of our 13:49 no rocket run linked in this thread. When it's uploaded I'll post it here, as I think that high-quality reegar gameplay is relevant to a thread discussing the balance of said gun.

No it's not.  Because without even watching the video I know what you did.  You used Infiltrators with Shredder Mods and AP ammo.  That isn't evidence that the weapon is inherently overpowered..  That is evidence that it has some broken interactions with other game elements.  Do those need to be addressed?  Sure.  But it doesn't mean that the weapon's base stats need to be nerfed.

LMFAO  You should really watch the video before making incorrect guesses 

Doesn't really matter.  I know they used AP ammo and Shredder Mods.  If they used BE spam to speed run instead it makes no difference ultimately.  The point is that no video is going to prove the weapon is overpowered on its own, because it categorically isn't (I've used it plenty without shredder and AP ammo so I would know).  It simply has issues when combined with certain other game elements that make it overpowered, just like many other weapons in this game.  When they manage to keep GPS using GI's with the proper equipment from WTFPWNing everything in the blink of an eye maybe Stardusk and his supporters will have a point about the Reegar.  Until then, all they are doing is whining about yet one more imbalance in a game full of imbalances, and they don't even get what is actually imbalanced in the first place.

Honestly if BW nerfs the Reegar's base stats rather than simply addressing its broken interactions with certain mods and ammo types, they will have massively failed once again at MP game balance. 

[R0Gun13]

Atheosis wrote...

R0Gun13 wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Korolen wrote...

I have come to the conclusion that the Reegar is overpowered and needs a nerf. However, until it receives one, I'll continue to use it to break all the speedrun records. Currently processing my perspective of our 13:49 no rocket run linked in this thread. When it's uploaded I'll post it here, as I think that high-quality reegar gameplay is relevant to a thread discussing the balance of said gun.

No it's not.  Because without even watching the video I know what you did.  You used Infiltrators with Shredder Mods and AP ammo.  That isn't evidence that the weapon is inherently overpowered..  That is evidence that it has some broken interactions with other game elements.  Do those need to be addressed?  Sure.  But it doesn't mean that the weapon's base stats need to be nerfed.

LMFAO  You should really watch the video before making incorrect guesses 

Doesn't really matter.  I know they used AP ammo and Shredder Mods.  If they used BE spam to speed run instead it makes no difference ultimately.  The point is that no video is going to prove the weapon is overpowered on its own, because it categorically isn't (I've used it plenty without shredder and AP ammo so I would know).  It simply has issues when combined with certain other game elements that make it overpowered, just like many other weapons in this game.  When they manage to keep GPS using GI's with the proper equipment from WTFPWNing everything in the blink of an eye maybe Stardusk and his supporters will have a point about the Reegar.  Until then, all they are doing is whining about yet one more imbalance in a game full of imbalances, and they don't even get what is actually imbalanced in the first place.

Honestly if BW nerfs the Reegar's base stats rather than simply addressing its broken interactions with certain mods and ammo types, they will have massively failed once again at MP game balance. 

Actually I agree with you for the most part.

Many people are saying the same thing that taking away the armour piercing/shredder ability to balance this gun would be the right move.

I still LMFAO tho 

[Rifneno]

Atheosis wrote...

Kabab11 wrote...

Should be an ultra rare, and no nerfing done to it. And the cerberus harrier should become a rare.

Yeah because the Harrier isn't one of the best guns in the game at rank one or anything...

At rank one?  Hell no it's not.  HELL no.  It does less damage per shot than a normal mattock x (which yes is a valid comparison as one's uncommon and one's UR), has less capacity, and weighs twice as much.  I get that not having to wear out your mouse finger/controller thumb is a huge bonus, but it's ridiculous to claim the harrier is one of the best guns in the game at rank 1.  It's not even that good compared to a gun barely anyone uses.

[Feneckus]

Rifneno wrote...

it's ridiculous to claim the harrier is one of the best guns in the game at rank 1.  

No it's not. That gun is a freaking beast. I honestly think it's better than a Claymore X on a Human Soldier.

[Tankcommander]

Rifneno wrote...

Twistoon wrote...

What makes all this weapons ridiculous is the AP and WARP ammo nothing else. without that the reegar wont even scratch an atlases armor

YES.  THIS.  EXACTLY THIS.

This thread sickens me.  Stacking the deck to give every advantage from AP ammo to the only one of 36 characters that would survive some of those crowds in close combat, then passes off this laughably stacked scenario as your average gameplay.  Then lies through his teeth and tells us he's not asking for a nerf when it's crystal clear the intention is stir up (more) bad sentiment in the community.  Any possible purpose besides creating support for a nerf?  No.  Why not just change your coalesced to give the Reegar 9999 damage?  It's little different than the con job you're pulling already.  The community would be a better place without your swindling propaganda, OP.

Yeah, besides, everyone forgets the Reegar sucks outside of its very short range. I've even started using the Graal over the Reegar in my new builds for that very reason.

[Rifneno]

Feneckus wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

it's ridiculous to claim the harrier is one of the best guns in the game at rank 1.  

No it's not. That gun is a freaking beast. I honestly think it's better than a Claymore X on a Human Soldier.

Not sure "it's a freaking beast" qualifies as a counterpoint.

[DayusMakhina]

Atheosis wrote...

Lexa_D wrote...

spudspot wrote...

Sacrificial Bias wrote...

4 people focusing the Atlas will melt it in about 3-4 seconds.

Four people focusing an Atlas will melt it in just the same time with plenty of other combinations. One of them is Stardusk's beloved Turian Soldier with a Hurricane.

Four of them, all debuffing the Atlas with PM? I'd say its even faster.

And please don't tell me it takes skill on a Turian to point the Hurricane at a freaking ATLAS.

FYI: 
 

That was before fixing double-piercing Atlas' cockpit in the latest patch, FYI

Also, try to kill Hunter with both and see how's Hurricane "same thing"

As far as I see from the thread, all top players except Arelex consider this weapon OP (Stardusk, Godless, Korolen, zh3kr, Cyonan, Kroner). The proposed fix - remove headshots, remove warp and AP armor, remove shredder mod - should do the trick, it still being insanely powerful against infantry (including Phantom), but reasonable against bosses and really gold-worthy.

Yes, that would be fine.  Actually nerfing the weapon's unmodded stats on the other hand would be terrible.  If you do that, it quickly becomes pointless to use the absurdly short-ranged Reegar at all when you can just use the much more well-rounded GPS instead.

Wouldn't be fine in my book; removing headshots would give people even less incentive to actually aim with it, then it really would be a total spray weapon. Everything else I can agree on, but never on removing a damage bonus that requires the user to be capable.

[Lucius Aelius]

I think an appropriate solution would be

1. Eliminate all damage bonus to the Reegar from Tactical Cloak (I never understood why any weapon got a damage bonus from someone being invisible, most other games invisibility was a thing of it's own.... but I digress)

2. Reduce damage by 15-20 percent, and give a damage bonus of the same amount to all Quarians using a Quarian weapon.

Apart from doing that, any nerf to the Reegar that doesn't also nerf the GPS would be beyond stupid, I still don't see how the Reegar comes close to comparing with it (well, close sure, but it most certainly does not surpass it).

[bajsmongo66]

Lucius Aelius wrote...

I think an appropriate solution would be

1. Eliminate all damage bonus to the Reegar from Tactical Cloak (I never understood why any weapon got a damage bonus from someone being invisible, most other games invisibility was a thing of it's own.... but I digress)

2. Reduce damage by 15-20 percent, and give a damage bonus of the same amount to all Quarians using a Quarian weapon.

Apart from doing that, any nerf to the Reegar that doesn't also nerf the GPS would be beyond stupid, I still don't see how the Reegar comes close to comparing with it (well, close sure, but it most certainly does not surpass it).

 A lot of games have that mechanic..first strike/shot after stealth deals critical dmg or have a damage bonus...i guess it is because someone can shoot/strike without  being worried about being seen..so they can concentrate more on hititng or shooting in critical/weak spots... this is a common RPG thing..and ppl seem to forget ME is RPG even in MP 

[Fingertrip]

You're the biggest tryhard in a co-op/SP game. It's downright embarrasing.

[Atheosis]

Rifneno wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Kabab11 wrote...

Should be an ultra rare, and no nerfing done to it. And the cerberus harrier should become a rare.

Yeah because the Harrier isn't one of the best guns in the game at rank one or anything...

At rank one?  Hell no it's not.  HELL no.  It does less damage per shot than a normal mattock x (which yes is a valid comparison as one's uncommon and one's UR), has less capacity, and weighs twice as much.  I get that not having to wear out your mouse finger/controller thumb is a huge bonus, but it's ridiculous to claim the harrier is one of the best guns in the game at rank 1.  It's not even that good compared to a gun barely anyone uses.

Someone needs to A) actually use it and actually look at its stats.  It's pretty much a perfect gun outside the ammo capacity issue.

[IBYCFOTA]

Atheosis wrote...
Doesn't really matter.  I know they used AP ammo and Shredder Mods.  If they used BE spam to speed run instead it makes no difference ultimately.  The point is that no video is going to prove the weapon is overpowered on its own, because it categorically isn't (I've used it plenty without shredder and AP ammo so I would know).  It simply has issues when combined with certain other game elements that make it overpowered, just like many other weapons in this game.  When they manage to keep GPS using GI's with the proper equipment from WTFPWNing everything in the blink of an eye maybe Stardusk and his supporters will have a point about the Reegar.  Until then, all they are doing is whining about yet one more imbalance in a game full of imbalances, and they don't even get what is actually imbalanced in the first place.

Honestly if BW nerfs the Reegar's base stats rather than simply addressing its broken interactions with certain mods and ammo types, they will have massively failed once again at MP game balance. 

If Bioware 'addresses' it's broken interaction with those mods and ammo types it's going to do less damage, just like what would happen if they reduced the base damage of the weapon and kept it's relationship with other game elements intact. What I'm saying is that there's essentially no difference whether they nerf the gun or it's attachments, it's how they do it that's going to matter.

[Atheosis]

Lucius Aelius wrote...

I think an appropriate solution would be

1. Eliminate all damage bonus to the Reegar from Tactical Cloak (I never understood why any weapon got a damage bonus from someone being invisible, most other games invisibility was a thing of it's own.... but I digress)

2. Reduce damage by 15-20 percent, and give a damage bonus of the same amount to all Quarians using a Quarian weapon.

Apart from doing that, any nerf to the Reegar that doesn't also nerf the GPS would be beyond stupid, I still don't see how the Reegar comes close to comparing with it (well, close sure, but it most certainly does not surpass it).

Number 2 would render the base gun nearly useless compared to many other shotguns (due to its tiny range), and would actually force people to use shredder and AP/Warp ammo for it to be good.

[Atheosis]

IBYCFOTA wrote...

Atheosis wrote...
Doesn't really matter.  I know they used AP ammo and Shredder Mods.  If they used BE spam to speed run instead it makes no difference ultimately.  The point is that no video is going to prove the weapon is overpowered on its own, because it categorically isn't (I've used it plenty without shredder and AP ammo so I would know).  It simply has issues when combined with certain other game elements that make it overpowered, just like many other weapons in this game.  When they manage to keep GPS using GI's with the proper equipment from WTFPWNing everything in the blink of an eye maybe Stardusk and his supporters will have a point about the Reegar.  Until then, all they are doing is whining about yet one more imbalance in a game full of imbalances, and they don't even get what is actually imbalanced in the first place.

Honestly if BW nerfs the Reegar's base stats rather than simply addressing its broken interactions with certain mods and ammo types, they will have massively failed once again at MP game balance. 

If Bioware 'addresses' it's broken interaction with those mods and ammo types it's going to do less damage, just like what would happen if they reduced the base damage of the weapon and kept it's relationship with other game elements intact. What I'm saying is that there's essentially no difference whether they nerf the gun or it's attachments, it's how they do it that's going to matter.

Yes there is a difference.  If you simply nerf its base stats you end up forcing people to use what was previously broken combinations to simply make it good again.  And without them, the gun becomes another sub-par performer on the weapon list.

[IBYCFOTA]

Atheosis wrote...

Yes there is a difference.  If you simply nerf its base stats you end up forcing people to use what was previously broken combinations to simply make it good again.  And without them, the gun becomes another sub-par performer on the weapon list.

The overall potential of the weapon remains more or less the same, depending on what steps are taken to address the issue, of which I have not heard many specifics.

[nuculerman]

Darkfoxz87 wrote...

This gun is named after Kal'Reeger, any argument against it is invalid.

Lawyered.

But in all seriousness the gun is crazy op.  I leave lobbies where an infiltrator is using a krysae or anyone is using this.  It's just not fun playing with them.  That said I hope I unlock them before they're nerfed so I can have some LOLs too.

[Palladin123]

How is the Reegar that different from the Claymore? Even the Claymore can one shot most non-boss units. And unlike the Reegar, the Claymore is usable even at medium range. The Reegar on the other hand is absolutely useless beyond close range. This makes for a good choice in the shotgun arsenal for players - one absolute close range shotgun, versus a close-medium range one.

Maybe the Reegar's weight could be increased to be in-line with the Claymore. If the Reegar's damage is nerfed though, no one will want to pick the Reegar over the Claymore.

Modifié par Palladin123, 03 juin 2012 - 10:43 .

[GGW KillerTiger]

Buff the reeger!

[Yosuke]

Correct me if I'm wrong. It sounds like:

DPS: Reegar by a considerable margin except on armor (without mods/ammo)
Range: Claymore, but *effective* range isn't that much better (without mods/ammo)
Ease of use: Reegar by a considerable margin
Weight: Reegar

It seems like the point of the reegar is to get in close and toast things without much need for aiming, which is fine. It's somewhat of a stereotypical "shotgun" in that sense. However, for so much destructive potential, the major drawback (a range cap) really isn't much of a drawback assuming you actually use proper tactics for a shotgun (or flamethrower), especially with a lower weight which means more power availability and thus survivability due to cc, charging, etc.

Because most guns are limited more by the traditional weight/stability/ammo vs power tradeoff while the reegar doesn't seem to be so much, it's just a powerhouse of destruction. I'd agree that the way to fix this would be to either increase weight or encourage users to carry a second weapon by disabling certain ammo types on it similar to the GPS, thus limiting use of the gun more to classes/builds which can ignore cooldowns and still be fairly tanky.

However, seeing as it's a quarian weapon, the ammo option makes more sense than the weight option. The other possibilities which I haven't seen mentioned yet are to decrease the range even more (lol), making the range cap more of a hindrance, or decreasing ammo per clip and forcing users to reload more often. The ammo type incompatibility or decreased ammo options would both force people to actually think and assess a situation (number/type of enemies) before rushing in and spraying death around, which I think is the main thing this gun is lacking. No skill + no thought required to get results is generally a bad mechanic for any game. I know there's a certain percentage of gamers who enjoy god mode and other cheats, and they are generally fun for a little while, but the end result in my experience is that the game gets stale a lot quicker.

Modifié par Yosuke, 04 juin 2012 - 01:16 .

[Pekkan]

With same equipment Reegar seemed to melt Atlases faster than primes, which shouldn't be possible considering that Atlases have about 21.1k shields and 21.1k armor, and primes have 11.8k shields and 16.9k armor. Wonder if it is bugged and still capable of hitting Atlas twice per bullet through the cockpit glass when that capability was removed from other weapons in 1.03.

Modifié par Pekkan, 04 juin 2012 - 01:54 .

[TeamLexana]

Oh please, just let this troll thread die already. Just look at the map they were on, the classes that used the gun, the enemy they were facing, the fact that they elite players and not just a bunch of regular horrible randoms...  (Well so elite they still get executed by atlas's lololololol and the damn vorcha is glitch exploiting the whole time with his flamer going while shooting.)

Bonus's on top of bonus's on top of bonus's will buff you up like mad. Or did OP think we are too stupid to realize this? Seriously, come on now.

[Moses6533]

I am not even going to bother reading the entire thread, but after watching the video I have to agree that....................the guy who made this video is a moron.
He stated at the beggining of the video that he is just pointing and shooting but not using any powers.......then he immediately starts spamming Biotic Charge.....hello, that is a power which teleports you across the map to your enemy. Try running at them to get in range and see how long you last. Or try using not a Krogan with a million Health and Shields.
Maybe it's the Biotic Charge that is broken.

You demonstrate the Reegar on a very particular build.
Try making another video and use the Reegar on a Soldier, Engineer, or Adept.
That same build with a Claymore X or GPS X would do just as well.

[Korolen]

I feel kind of bad for bumping this thread but... I did promise to post my video when it was uploaded. Here is the Reegar in action, on an extemely squishy class (the Drell Adept). Take from it what you like.
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Korolen, 05 juin 2012 - 02:38 .

[Jvirgil]

I like your channel OP, subbbbbeeeedddd