685 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Synthesis does not kill anyone. Even less in a horrific way.

To me extermination and "ascention through destruction" are genocide, because the races cease to exist in one way or another, by force and in the most horrific way imaginable.

But Synthesis does do not that, thrice damn it!

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 juin 2012 - 05:58 .

[Joe Del Toro]

Ieldra2 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Synthesis does not kill anyone. Even less in a horrific way.

To me extermination and "ascention through destruction" are genocide, because the races cease to exist in one way or another, by force and in the most horrific way imaginable.

But Synthesis does do not that, thrice damn it!

Violation's better than death?

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ieldra2 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Synthesis does not kill anyone. Even less in a horrific way.

To me extermination and "ascention through destruction" are genocide, because the races cease to exist in one way or another, by force and in the most horrific way imaginable.

But Synthesis does do not that, thrice damn it!

Tell me what the reapers were doing prior to Marauder Shields? Playing cards? If I looked outside while talking to the brat the genocide went on.

[Ieldra]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Synthesis does not kill anyone. Even less in a horrific way.

To me extermination and "ascention through destruction" are genocide, because the races cease to exist in one way or another, by force and in the most horrific way imaginable.

But Synthesis does do not that, thrice damn it!

Tell me what the reapers were doing prior to Marauder Shields? Playing cards? If I looked outside while talking to the brat the genocide went on.

Synthesis does not do what the Reapers do! Is that so damned hard to understand? I am neither doing nor supporting what the Reapers do when I choose Synthesis! My god, I can't believe anyone really believes such complete and utter nonsense.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 juin 2012 - 06:14 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ieldra2 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Synthesis does not kill anyone. Even less in a horrific way.

To me extermination and "ascention through destruction" are genocide, because the races cease to exist in one way or another, by force and in the most horrific way imaginable.

But Synthesis does do not that, thrice damn it!

Tell me what the reapers were doing prior to Marauder Shields? Playing cards? If I looked outside while talking to the brat the genocide went on.

Synthesis does not do what the Reapers do! Is that so damned hard to understand? I am neither doing nor supporting what the Reapers do when I choose Synthesis! My god, I can't believe anyone really believes such complete and utter nonsense.

Extermination, "ascension through destruction" and synthesis all cause that the races cease to exist. That's genocide to me. These lose their right of self-determination and free will, because somehow this new form is a new solution to the hypothetical problem the reapers have invented.

[Ieldra]

Nobody loses free will. I am making *one* decision without asking anyone. And - see the Normandy scene - nobody loses their species identity. Nor does anyone lose their way of thinking, their way of feeling etc... at least there's no indication for any such thing.

And everybody lives. Extermination is the opposite of that, if you hadn't noticed.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 juin 2012 - 06:28 .

[Joe Del Toro]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nobody loses free will. I am making *one* decision without asking anyone. And - see the Normandy scene - nobody loses their species identity.

And everybody lives. Extermination is the opposite of that, if you hadn't noticed.

It's a pretty big goddamn decision.

[Taboo]

For my next trick, I will make all women men and all men women, without changing their brain chemistry.

They WILL learn to understand one another.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 05 juin 2012 - 06:31 .

[frylock23]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nobody loses free will. I am making *one* decision without asking anyone. And - see the Normandy scene - nobody loses their species identity. Nor does anyone lose their way of thinking, their way of feeling etc... at least there's no indication for any such thing.

And everybody lives. Extermination is the opposite of that, if you hadn't noticed.

You completely re-write their DNA to give them new DNA. In the most basic way possible, you removed their species identity.

Face it. Synthesis is genocide on a galactic scale.

[Ieldra]

@Joe:
Yeah, it is that. I said it myself on the previous page. That's why it's reversible on an individual basis in my interpretation (see the thread linked in post 2 of this thread). A few million dropouts won't threaten the bigger objective. But it's still one decision and doesn't take anyone's free will away. Only continuing mind control would do that.

Of course, as things are going here at the moment, it won't be long before someone accuses me of that as well.

@frylock:
For the 1000000th time: the genetic rewrite is a metaphor.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 juin 2012 - 06:33 .

[frylock23]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Joe:
Yeah, it is that. I said it myself on the previous page. That's why it's reversible on an individual basis in my interpretation (see the thread linked in post 2 of this thread). A few million dropouts won't threaten the bigger objective. But it's still one decision and doesn't take anyone's free will away. Only continuing mind control would do that.

Of course, as things are going here at the moment, it won't be long before someone accuses me of that as well.

@frylock:
For the 1000000th time: the genetic rewrite is a metaphor.

Only in your headcanon.

But I think it odd that you insist that we must take the Star Brat at face value until you run into a part you find problematic to your sunshine and rainbows at which point you decide that the whole "face value" thing? ... yeah, not so much on that little part.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If he isn't being straight in your version, then it's entirely possible he's not being straight in all versions.

Modifié par frylock23, 05 juin 2012 - 06:36 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nobody loses free will. I am making *one* decision without asking anyone. And - see the Normandy scene - nobody loses their species identity.

They stopped being what they were and transformed into something else. Another race. Look carefully. These ones even glow. Yup. They lost their identity. Of course they lose their free will. They are forced (maybe by space magic?) to quit thinking producing synthetics is a good idea. Nobody asked what they wanted. My Shepard got the green light to destroy the reapers. Various deals were made by various races. Nobody asked my Shepard to do something else. The only solution to my Shperad is destruction. However, in that case I stab the geth in the back. Another mindless genocide. For no reason at all. BTW: The Normandy doesn't arrive safely on the airport either, does it? How about all those that lost their lives or were already processed?

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 05 juin 2012 - 06:41 .

[Joe Del Toro]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Joe:
Yeah, it is that. I said it myself on the previous page. That's why it's reversible on an individual basis in my interpretation (see the thread linked in post 2 of this thread). A few million dropouts won't threaten the bigger objective. But it's still one decision and doesn't take anyone's free will away. Only continuing mind control would do that.

Of course, as things are going here at the moment, it won't be long before someone accuses me of that as well.

Hate to be rude but...."your interpretation"? That sadly means jack all, I'm afraid. Not to mention, you violated someone. Even if you can reverse the process, you can't 'un-violate' them. Like they're all gonna be like "Oh you thought we'd all want to be cyborgs? Haha, you silly Shepard!'

[Taboo]

Don't worry Joe, I'm violating you for your own good.

You WILL be happy with my choice.

[Joe Del Toro]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Don't worry Joe, I'm violating you for your own good.

You WILL be happy with my choice.

Shh, not in public, Taboo;)

[Ieldra]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Of course they lose their free will. They are forced (maybe by space magic?) to quit thinking producing synthetics is a good idea.

Ah, that's where you're coming from. That does not happen. How is this a solution then? Read my thread again, I've dealt with that.

And....getting glowing eyes means I lose my identity? Don't make me laugh.

@Joe:
You tell me what *you* think Synthesis results in, exactly, and I tell you it's your interpretation. The information we get in-game isn't enough to create a comprehensive scenario and contradictory as well. The endings are made to be expanded. Almost every bad thing people write about Synthesis is interpretation, the only valid criticism is that I am making a decision for everyone. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 juin 2012 - 06:43 .

[Taboo]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Don't worry Joe, I'm violating you for your own good.

You WILL be happy with my choice.

Shh, not in public, Taboo;)

YOU GET ME CLOSER TO GOD.

Seriously though, next Bioware will have me killing all dogs because one dog bit someone.

SORRY SCOOBY.

RUT RO.

[Joe Del Toro]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Joe:
You tell me what *you* think Synthesis results in, exactly, and I tell you it's your interpretation. The information we get in-game isn't enough to create a comprehensive scenario and contradictory as well. The endings are made to be expanded. 

That's just it. I'm going by what I see on screen, and that alone tells me that I am making a galaxy (hell, possibly universe)-wide decision to change people without them knowing about it beforehand. I don't need to get into headcanon to justify it, because there is no justifying it.

[Taboo]

There are always things that are wrong.

Rape is always wrong.

Murder is always wrong.

YES?

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ieldra2 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Of course they lose their free will. They are forced (maybe by space magic?) to quit thinking producing synthetics is a good idea.

Ah, that's where you're coming from. That does not happen. How is this a solution then? Read my thread again, I've dealt with that.

And....getting glowing eyes means I lose my identity? Don't make me laugh.

In that we differ. I do think it is supposed to happen.

Yup. Technically you are not human anymore. You have become a kind of hybrid. And you are supposed to be happy about it.

[Pelle6666]

If it needs this much if an explanation it's not good.

[Dendio1]

Taboo-XX wrote...

There are always things that are wrong.

Rape is always wrong.

Murder is always wrong.

YES?

Usually wrong, but one can find themselves in situations where they have to make moral sacrifices for the greater goal.

Grey and grey morality for shepard making ever mounting sacrfices in his crusade against the reapers
Blue and Orange for catalyst who's reasoning is beyond our comprehension (lore wise)

Modifié par Dendio1, 05 juin 2012 - 07:00 .

[Joe Del Toro]

Dendio1 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

There are always things that are wrong.

Rape is always wrong.

Murder is always wrong.

YES?

Nope.

Oh dear.

[Taboo]

People accuse me of absolutism.

I see a difference between killing and murdering.

But Rape? Yeah, uh, that's always wrong.

The grey area comes in AFTER the crime is commited and how you deal with them.

THAT'S HOW IT'S DONE.

[Ieldra]

@AngryFrozenWater:
So....you think that Synthesis means everyone is mind-controlled in order to not build any synthetics? Do you really think that I would choose Synthesis in that case?

As for hybridization: Is Shepard human enough for you? Because that's what this is about. Shepard's is a human re-created through bio-synthetic fusion, that's why it must be Shepard who jumps into the beam. The glowing eyes are a cosmetic effect.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 juin 2012 - 06:55 .