685 réponses à ce sujet

[Gemini1179]

Not even going to read this. Here's a question though, does anyone ACTUALLY believe that if we're all "the same" we won't come up with reasons to kill one another? We do that enough now.

Example of Terrible Logic:
-> Organics will create Synthetics
-> Synthetics will kill Organics
-> Therefore, merging their 'DNA' will prevent Synthetics from killing Organics.

[Joe Del Toro]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Joe:
Does that make a difference?

Apologies, I misread your post and missed how you said it was against their will. In that case, I simply disagree that stakes can get so high that I need to violate people's existence. It is too abhorrent, especially with other choices available.

[Taboo]

IndridColdx wrote...

It was necessary lol

Ever been to Hiroshima sunshine?

A playground still sits there, twisted and burned by the blast all those years ago.

Children were burned alive. All that was left was there outlines in ash.

[Dendio1]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Motherlander wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
As for hybridization: Is Shepard human enough for you? Because that's what this is about. Shepard's is a human re-created through bio-synthetic fusion, that's why it must be Shepard who jumps into the beam. The glowing eyes are a cosmetic effect.

This is an interesting point.

The truth is that synthesis has already started in in the galaxy at some levels. I am sure many will not agree with me in what I am trying to say. This is my own opinion and other will probably not share it.

To me, Shepard in ME2 and ME3 is effectively synthetic. He/she is effectively built by the Lazarus project in ME2. Shepard Mark 2 is not born/hatched/seeded like a normal organic. Shepard's consciouness is effectively transferred to a new body, whih in fact could look different and have different abilities (although I accept that since this also happen at the start of ME3, thislast point can be refuted as a gaming device).

Shepard's new body is effectively designed. it is just that Cerberus chose to retain Shepard'sconsciosness.

I also think that Miranda is effectively synthetic as she is designed.

Apart from that, many of the upgrades relate to Cybernetics which are of course sythetic. So many organics have synthetic elements in them.

Modifications were made to the Geth which may make them less synethetic

EDI tries to give herself organic attributes. Giving herself a human body andtrying to learn about human emotions. She is effectively like Data in Star Trek.

So in a limited sense, on the logic above, synthesis was alread happening in the ME universe.

That's an interesting take on things. Your point about Shepard is worth thinking about. I've always wondered how they recreated his body. Organ cloning?
Not Miranda, though. Her genetic pattern may have been created from scratch, but she was grown like a normal human. May have even had a surrogate mother instead of an artificial uterus.

@Joe:
Does that make a difference?

Star kid specifially says everyone will be remade in shepards image. And if you think about it shepard and the reapers have something in common. Both are organic mind within a synthetic body.

[Joe Del Toro]

Let's try not to make the conversation completely off-putting, Tabs. Not to trivialise Hiroshima at all, but maybe not introduce so many real-world scenarios, eh?

[Dendio1]

Gemini1179 wrote...

Not even going to read this. Here's a question though, does anyone ACTUALLY believe that if we're all "the same" we won't come up with reasons to kill one another? We do that enough now.

Example of Terrible Logic:
-> Organics will create Synthetics
-> Synthetics will kill Organics
-> Therefore, merging their 'DNA' will prevent Synthetics from killing Organics.

From what I understand the catalyst wants to prevent technological singularity causing synthetics to vastly outclass organics in every way possible. Synthesis would allow organics to keep pace with synthetic evolution via merging with them. This went horribly wrong in javiks cycle, but we speculate the crucible would achieve better results.

[Taboo]

At some point, you have to stop when it comes to interference. You are supposed to stop the Reapers. The majority consensus was that the Crucible was to Destroy them.

The other choices start to fall into George Bush logic, where intervention is deemed necessary because some boob thinks he has the right.

[MisterJB]

Gemini1179 wrote...

Not even going to read this. Here's a question though, does anyone ACTUALLY believe that if we're all "the same" we won't come up with reasons to kill one another? We do that enough now.

See, if you had read it, you would see this question has been answered many times.
I wonder if this is the general mentality of your average Anti-Synthesis. "I'm not even going to read this. I just don't like it."

[Taboo]

We uh, have passed that point.

The issue is how you affect EVERYONE.

[IndridColdx]

Taboo-XX wrote...

IndridColdx wrote...

It was necessary lol

Ever been to Hiroshima sunshine?

A playground still sits there, twisted and burned by the blast all those years ago.

Children were burned alive. All that was left was there outlines in ash.

Yes sunshine, I have been to Hiroshima when I was stationed in Japan several years back.

What you described is war.  And those children you speak of were actually the lucky ones.  They didn't feel a thing.  The ones I feel more for are the ones not directly under the blast a few miles away.  I can't even begin to describe what they went through.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it, but it was necessary.  That bomb prevented millions more from dieing.

[Joe Del Toro]

MisterJB wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

Not even going to read this. Here's a question though, does anyone ACTUALLY believe that if we're all "the same" we won't come up with reasons to kill one another? We do that enough now.

See, if you had read it, you would see this question has been answered many times.
I wonder if this is the general mentality of your average Anti-Synthesis. "I'm not even going to read this. I just don't like it."

Doing wonders for your own image there, too, buddy.

[Taboo]

Yes...

I would be happy to ship out my copy of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. There is a GREAT chapter on the God Complex.

From the textbook:

"A person with a god complex may refuse to admit the possibility of error or failure, even in the face of complex or intractable problems or difficult or impossible tasks, or may regard personal opinions as unquestionably correct."

Synthesis! Synthesis!

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 05 juin 2012 - 07:32 .

[Taboo]

Holy **** guys.

It's a section on Transhumanism!

"Narcissism and Hubris are key factors in the what is commonly referred to as "Playing God".

I see the words "designer babies", "fear of flesh", "fear of death".

OH THE MADNESS JUST CONTINUES.

[Ieldra]

Dendio1 wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

Not even going to read this. Here's a question though, does anyone ACTUALLY believe that if we're all "the same" we won't come up with reasons to kill one another? We do that enough now.

Example of Terrible Logic:
-> Organics will create Synthetics
-> Synthetics will kill Organics
-> Therefore, merging their 'DNA' will prevent Synthetics from killing Organics.

From what I understand the catalyst wants to prevent technological singularity causing synthetics to vastly outclass organics in every way possible. Synthesis would allow organics to keep pace with synthetic evolution via merging with them. This went horribly wrong in javiks cycle, but we speculate the crucible would achieve better results.

Indeed. And the ironic thing is that it only went wrong in Javik's cycle because of Reaper interference. So....good that it's the Crucible and not the Catalyst creating the options. The distinction appears to escape most people.

@Taboo:
It did not escape my notice that you've been turning into a troll.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 juin 2012 - 07:47 .

[Taboo]

And to address the fallacy he proposes.

Chucklenuts here presents an appeal to probability, which is a fallacy. The Catalyst has not been taking in new information for millions of years since he started. He just does it.

I would have thought that such a being would be capable of BASIC scientific reasoning. Loops are a pain in the ass though, especially for machines who cannot IMPROVE past a certain point.

[Taboo]

No. I just don't have time for nonsense. I've been more than supportive of your interpretation.

[Ieldra]

Then why are you still here?

[Joe Del Toro]

He likes the attention, bless him.

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Then why are you still here?

My motives are my own but I would think that I've made them abundantly clear by now

You take debate as trolling. I see no reason not to tell you why I have an issues, otherwise there would be no discussion here. If Bioware is going to have this in their game I'm going to tell them why I don't like it, simple as that.

I get a bit goofy at times because I cannot possibly handle all of this with a straight face. That's who I am.

I don't hate anyone. In fact I would ingnore you if I didn't enjoy discussion. I intentionally avoid people I don't like.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 05 juin 2012 - 07:54 .

[Pride Demon]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yes...

I would be happy to ship out my copy of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. There is a GREAT chapter on the God Complex.

God complex is not included there... As it's not a proper clinical term... And can't be properly diagnosed, separating it clearly from a guy with simply a big ego...

[Taboo]

Pride Demon wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yes...

I would be happy to ship out my copy of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. There is a GREAT chapter on the God Complex.

God complex is not included there... As it's not a proper clinical term... And can't be properly diagnosed, separating it clearly from a guy with simply a big ego...

The word falls under the characterization of narcissism. 

Insanity doesn't fall in there either, but dissociative identity disorder does.

The Joker is not technically "insane", he has a dissociative identity disorder.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 05 juin 2012 - 07:56 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@AngryFrozenWater:
So....you think that Synthesis means everyone is mind-controlled in order to not build any synthetics? Do you really think that I would choose Synthesis in that case?

As for hybridization: Is Shepard human enough for you? Because that's what this is about. Shepard's is a human re-created through bio-synthetic fusion, that's why it must be Shepard who jumps into the beam. The glowing eyes are a cosmetic effect.

Shepard had no choice in how Cerberus pacthed him/her up. It was a decision which he/she was not allowed to make.

Well.. What my exact thoughts would be, I cannot guess. However:

Child: There is another solution.
Shepard: Yeah?
Child: Synthesis.
Shepard: And that is?
Child: Add you energy to the Crucible's.
Child: Everything you are will be absorbed and then send out.
Child: The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework.
Child: A new DNA.
Shepard: I... don't know.
Child: Why not?
Child: Synthetics are already part of you.
Child: Can you imagine your life without them?
Shepard: And there will be peace?
Child: The cycle will end.
Child: Synthesis is the final solution of life, but we need each other to make it happen.
Child: You have a difficult decision.
Child: Releasing the energy of the Crucible will end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays.
Child: The paths are open.
Child: But you have to choose.

Woopie. There will be peace! With the added bonus that Shepard dies. That sure would make him/her happy. The rest should be happy too. After all they'll become the final solution of life. Isn't that great? And of course, our saviors the reapers will always be there in times that we need them. They are such great guys. Gotta love them.

*waves to the reapers while they fly away*

It so touching. They are now one of us.

Ah. Who cares? These are friendly fellows. We solved it, right? Almost no harm done. Sure, a genocide here or there. I wonder if I can buy a reaper doll for the daughter of my niece.

Niece's daughter: Did that all really happen?
AngryFrozenWater: Yes, but some of the details are lost in time. It all happened so very long ago.

[KingZayd]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

Not even going to read this. Here's a question though, does anyone ACTUALLY believe that if we're all "the same" we won't come up with reasons to kill one another? We do that enough now.

Example of Terrible Logic:
-> Organics will create Synthetics
-> Synthetics will kill Organics
-> Therefore, merging their 'DNA' will prevent Synthetics from killing Organics.

From what I understand the catalyst wants to prevent technological singularity causing synthetics to vastly outclass organics in every way possible. Synthesis would allow organics to keep pace with synthetic evolution via merging with them. This went horribly wrong in javiks cycle, but we speculate the crucible would achieve better results.

Indeed. And the ironic thing is that it only went wrong in Javik's cycle because of Reaper interference. So....good that it's the Crucible and not the Catalyst creating the options. The distinction appears to escape most people.

@Taboo:
It did not escape my notice that you've been turning into a troll.

so which race/cycle decided that what an anti-reaper weapon really needed was an option for synthesis? 

[Taboo]

Did you honestly just look at the Wikipedia page or are you a Doctor?

Because a "God Complex" is something that is not a medical term but is used as a form of narcissim.

That grandiose sense of self worth and the feeling of entitlement and bad boundaries? That feeds into a "God Complex".

[Taboo]

Come to think of it the Reapers fit that niche.

Jesus.