139 réponses à ce sujet

[jbrand2002uk]

there is a mention on the wiki of his demotion but not to what rank do you have a link? as it seems odd no mention is made of him being Hawke( If Rogue or Warrior) and Carver's Commander at Ostagar
plus given how Avelline pronounces it it sounds like a different spelling

[Si-Shen]

Hawke was important to Kirkwall, thats it.
I honestly don't want to see Hawke again.

[batlin]

Hawke wasn't even the most important person in Kirkwall. Anders was.

Modifié par batlin, 05 juin 2012 - 11:19 .

[dragonflight288]

No, Anders was just some mage who healed refugees for free. He was the most important character for the ending of the narrative.

[TEWR]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

there is a mention on the wiki of his demotion but not to what rank do you have a link? as it seems odd no mention is made of him being Hawke( If Rogue or Warrior) and Carver's Commander at Ostagar
plus given how Avelline pronounces it it sounds like a different spelling

No. I thought the games made mention of what rank he was, but the codex just says that his rank progressively went lower and lower as a result of him voicing his objections.

However, the surtitles to the game have it spelled as Varel when Aveline says it.

[jbrand2002uk]

Thats what strikes me as odd other than Avelline's mention of a Captain Varel there no other reference anywhere that the Seneschal Varel at Amaranthine even served at Ostagar even when you import a Ferelden Warden which seems odd since you think it would come up in conversation that the both fought at and survived Ostagar which leads me to thinks Hawke and Carver's commander is a different Varel maybe a son/nephew/cousin or sibling etc

[TEWR]

Doubtful. It seems like one of the few throwbacks to Origins.

At any rate, it's not really that pertinent to Hawke's status as the one being sought out.

And considering that Hawke can be with Anders on the run after saying they agreed with what he did, I do have to wonder why the Seekers would seek him out for peace talks when by those options Hawke may not be the best proponent for peace.

And honestly, I'm getting pretty tired of gaming companies advertising a game with statements they can't live up to -- and sometimes didn't plan to -- all in the name to make a game seem better then it is. Because it just reeks of false advertising.

Not to mention that it will seriously kill sales if you lie about what a game contains.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 juin 2012 - 11:41 .

[batlin]

dragonflight288 wrote...

No, Anders was just some mage who healed refugees for free. He was the most important character for the ending of the narrative.

He's the one that instigates a worldwide war and changes Kirkwall for all time. Hawke has got nothing on that.

[ItsTheTruth]

Hawke single-handedly destroyed the Dragon Age series.

[jbrand2002uk]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Doubtful. It seems like one of the few throwbacks to Origins.

At any rate, it's not really that pertinent to Hawke's status as the one being sought out.

And considering that Hawke can be with Anders on the run after saying they agreed with what he did, I do have to wonder why the Seekers would seek him out for peace talks when by those options Hawke may not be the best proponent for peace.

And honestly, I'm getting pretty tired of gaming companies advertising a game with statements they can't live up to -- and sometimes didn't plan to -- all in the name to make a game seem better then it is. Because it just reeks of false advertising.

Not to mention that it will seriously kill sales if you lie about what a game contains.

If I recall in the end whether you viscount or fugitive the ending says something about Hawke's name becoming a rallying cry for mages everywhere after Hawke kills Meredith so it seems some parts or the factions are fighting for reasons that may not be the truth since Hawke would be the most impartial witness to what really happened in Kirkwall it wouldnt be suprising that the seekers are looking for him 

[dragonflight288]

He's the one that instigates a worldwide war and changes Kirkwall for all time. Hawke has got nothing on that.

You're right that Hawke has nothing to do with it. But up to that moment, and even after it, although Kirkwall has changed, Anders has not been involved in the running of the city, his relationship with the city guard is amicable at best, and he is openly hostile and paranoid of Aveline in Act 3 at worst. Anders didn't instigate the war either. That happens in Asunder when the Divine tries to reform the Circle so mages can be more comfortable and the Templars and Seekers absolutely hate that. They wanted to take what few rights the mages did have away from them out of religious fervor.

Anders was vastly important to the narrative, but to the city itself....not really.

[Dave of Canada]

I thought the point of the entire game was to demonstrate that Hawke wasn't the most important person on Thedas, he/she was just some every man who got caught up in events which they couldn't control as they spiraled and dragged everybody into it.

The most important on Thedas is just the legend which spawned from it (and Varric's retellings).

[Vormaerin]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I thought the point of the entire game was to demonstrate that Hawke wasn't the most important person on Thedas, he/she was just some every man who got caught up in events which they couldn't control as they spiraled and dragged everybody into it.

The most important on Thedas is just the legend which spawned from it (and Varric's retellings).

That's pretty much it.   Cassandra thinks that Hawke had a master plan.  Varric says "nah, it was just chance."

Most of the players would rather have played Cassandra's version, I think.

[batlin]

dragonflight288 wrote...

He's the one that instigates a worldwide war and changes Kirkwall for all time. Hawke has got nothing on that.

You're right that Hawke has nothing to do with it. But up to that moment, and even after it, although Kirkwall has changed, Anders has not been involved in the running of the city, his relationship with the city guard is amicable at best, and he is openly hostile and paranoid of Aveline in Act 3 at worst. Anders didn't instigate the war either. That happens in Asunder when the Divine tries to reform the Circle so mages can be more comfortable and the Templars and Seekers absolutely hate that. They wanted to take what few rights the mages did have away from them out of religious fervor.

Anders was vastly important to the narrative, but to the city itself....not really.

Hawke only ruled the city for a small amount of time before disappearing into a puff of plot covenience. Anders did more to affect the city and Thedas than Hawke did. This is not disputable.

[Sabriana]

Hawke was forever reacting to other people's actions. She was never important, not even to Kirkwall. She was very annoying, incapable of acting, or changing the course of events.

She's somewhere with Fenris. I don't know where, and I don't care. Good riddance. I don't want to see her again, personally.

[Wrathion]

batlin wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

He's the one that instigates a worldwide war and changes Kirkwall for all time. Hawke has got nothing on that.

You're right that Hawke has nothing to do with it. But up to that moment, and even after it, although Kirkwall has changed, Anders has not been involved in the running of the city, his relationship with the city guard is amicable at best, and he is openly hostile and paranoid of Aveline in Act 3 at worst. Anders didn't instigate the war either. That happens in Asunder when the Divine tries to reform the Circle so mages can be more comfortable and the Templars and Seekers absolutely hate that. They wanted to take what few rights the mages did have away from them out of religious fervor.

Anders was vastly important to the narrative, but to the city itself....not really.

Hawke only ruled the city for a small amount of time before disappearing into a puff of plot covenience. Anders did more to affect the city and Thedas than Hawke did. This is not disputable.

What Anders' did wouldn't even have been possible if it weren't for Hawke. Anders even says that himself. He couldn't have gone unnoticed for so many years without Hawke's influence or Aveline's.

[batlin]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

What Anders' did wouldn't even have been possible if it weren't for Hawke. Anders even says that himself. He couldn't have gone unnoticed for so many years without Hawke's influence or Aveline's.

If we're going to start praising people by proxy, Flemeth is the most important person in person in Thedas because had it not been for her Hawke would have died within 10 minutes of starting the game and therefore wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING in Kirkwall.

[Wrathion]

batlin wrote...

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

What Anders' did wouldn't even have been possible if it weren't for Hawke. Anders even says that himself. He couldn't have gone unnoticed for so many years without Hawke's influence or Aveline's.

If we're going to start praising people by proxy, Flemeth is the most important person in person in Thedas because had it not been for her Hawke would have died within 10 minutes of starting the game and therefore wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING in Kirkwall.

Sounds about right.

[batlin]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

Sounds about right.

So in the end no matter how you swing it, Hawke isn't the most important person in Thedas.

[Wrathion]

batlin wrote...

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

Sounds about right.

So in the end no matter how you swing it, Hawke isn't the most important person in Thedas.

Don't really care about that.
I was just trying to refute the claim the Anders was at all relevant before he did his thing. 

[Kail Ashton]

Vormaerin wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I thought the point of the entire game was to demonstrate that Hawke wasn't the most important person on Thedas, he/she was just some every man who got caught up in events which they couldn't control as they spiraled and dragged everybody into it.

The most important on Thedas is just the legend which spawned from it (and Varric's retellings).

That's pretty much it.   Cassandra thinks that Hawke had a master plan.  Varric says "nah, it was just chance."

Most of the players would rather have played Cassandra's version, I think.

Well yeah, the cassandra version is what i wanted, not the equivilant of "bob from down the street gets promoted to the senate, let's watch how badly he screws up the country while fetching people's skeletons for money~!"

[jbrand2002uk]

batlin wrote...

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

What Anders' did wouldn't even have been possible if it weren't for Hawke. Anders even says that himself. He couldn't have gone unnoticed for so many years without Hawke's influence or Aveline's.

If we're going to start praising people by proxy, Flemeth is the most important person in person in Thedas because had it not been for her Hawke would have died within 10 minutes of starting the game and therefore wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING in Kirkwall.

So then by your Definition The Warden is equally one of the most unimportant people in Thedas because if Flemmeth hadn't saved his/her useless passive ass at the tower of Ishal he/she could'nt have stabbed the oh so cliche'd beastie in the the face at Denerim.

Of course being a warden fanboy lol batlin will give some long winded excuse as to why The Warden is an exception 

[Dakota Strider]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

batlin wrote...

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

What Anders' did wouldn't even have been possible if it weren't for Hawke. Anders even says that himself. He couldn't have gone unnoticed for so many years without Hawke's influence or Aveline's.

If we're going to start praising people by proxy, Flemeth is the most important person in person in Thedas because had it not been for her Hawke would have died within 10 minutes of starting the game and therefore wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING in Kirkwall.

So then by your Definition The Warden is equally one of the most unimportant people in Thedas because if Flemmeth hadn't saved his/her useless passive ass at the tower of Ishal he/she could'nt have stabbed the oh so cliche'd beastie in the the face at Denerim.

Of course being a warden fanboy lol batlin will give some long winded excuse as to why The Warden is an exception 

Flemeth is most likely the most "poweful" person in all of Thedas.  However, from Morrigan's lips in Witchhunt, she is not even sure if Flemeth is human.  So maybe she needs an (*) next to her name.  What the Warden did, after Flemeth saved him/her, is certainly more than what Hawke did after being saved by Flemeth.  You might also make the argument, that what the Warden did before Flemeth's rescue, was also more notable.

Modifié par Dakota Strider, 06 juin 2012 - 03:24 .

[AkiKishi]

Dakota Strider wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

batlin wrote...

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

What Anders' did wouldn't even have been possible if it weren't for Hawke. Anders even says that himself. He couldn't have gone unnoticed for so many years without Hawke's influence or Aveline's.

If we're going to start praising people by proxy, Flemeth is the most important person in person in Thedas because had it not been for her Hawke would have died within 10 minutes of starting the game and therefore wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING in Kirkwall.

So then by your Definition The Warden is equally one of the most unimportant people in Thedas because if Flemmeth hadn't saved his/her useless passive ass at the tower of Ishal he/she could'nt have stabbed the oh so cliche'd beastie in the the face at Denerim.

Of course being a warden fanboy lol batlin will give some long winded excuse as to why The Warden is an exception 

Flemeth is most likely the most "poweful" person in all of Thedas.  However, from Morrigan's lips in Witchhunt, she is not even sure if Flemeth is human.  So maybe she needs an (*) next to her name.  What the Warden did, after Flemeth saved him/her, is certainly more than what Hawke did after being saved by Flemeth.  You might also make the argument, that what the Warden did before Flemeth's rescue, was also more notable.

You could probably make a good case for the Warden being the most important person in Ferelden. Thedas though? Nah. Which makes the Hawke tag line even more nonsense.

[Jerrybnsn]

dragonflight288 wrote...

He's the one that instigates a worldwide war and changes Kirkwall for all time. Hawke has got nothing on that.

.

Anders was vastly important to the narrative, but to the city itself....not really.

Tell it to the giant hole in the ground where the chantry use to be.  And to the other half of the population that survived the Qunari attack only to perish in a city-wide civil war between mages and templars.

Hawke gets blamed for everything because he's a good scapegoat.