32 réponses à ce sujet

[King Cousland]

I wanted to adress something that's been niggling me for some time now, especially in regard to DAII. I felt that the shift to (what I interpreted as) a more light-hearted and humorous game was something that was overdone in DAII when I though about DA's selling point of being a "dark fantasy". Don't get me wrong. I like humour, and liked Alistair's corny jokes, Oghren's drunken rants and Zevran's licentious quips. But in DAII it felt like there was a joke every other conversation. Most were just forced, poorly written and just thrown in because people apparently like snarky talk. It's not just the jokes, it's the way the writing direction seemed to shift as a whole, away from the titanic touchstones of ASOIAF and Tolkien, and more towards cheesy, cliched works of Meyer and Rowling (I like HP, but it shouldn't be used as inspiration for DA), which largely appeal to a juvenile audience. So, BioWare, I simply ask that you shun fluffy and cliched love stories (I'm looking at you Merrill), jokes stuffed into every conversation, and dialogue that spills over with cheese, and return to the wholsome, dark, bittersweet and thoroughly rich and filling conversations (sprinkled liberally with humour) at which you produc so masterfully. 

[Wulfram]

I think the amount of jokes depends on who you have on your party.

Also, yay for fluffy and cliched love stories. At least if Merrill is an example.

[Burnouts3s3]

I have to agree with this. But I think it's Isabela that's more guilty of this than anyone else.

[whykikyouwhy]

Personally, I wouldn't equate snarky banter with things juvenile. Nor do I think that fantasy, dark and gritty or otherwise, should be humor-light. Humor, bawdy and tongue-in-cheek, is often a means to deal with tragedy, with the inevitable. (Also, I seem to recall Tolkien injecting his share of witty comments.)

Events can be dire, situations can be grim, and sometimes the band of heroes needs to crack a joke or two in order to quell their fears and face risk and near-death.

[Reznore57]

More light hearted like one of your best friend become a terrorist , another bring on a war that almost burn down the city , and another turned you into a mass murdere of poor people if you didn't hit the right sentences , or the one that when you meet his master hints at some kind of rape going on?
DA2 is actually pretty dark , and without the humour what is left is a bunch of almost broken people.
I was depressed at the end of DA2 , I'm glad there is humour because if you scratch the surface it's a pretty sad story going on for everyone (hawke included).
And i find Tolkien cheesy , so it's a matter of tastes.

[brushyourteeth]

Burnouts3s3 wrote...

I have to agree with this. But I think it's Isabela that's more guilty of this than anyone else.

Seconded there. I don't think Fenris truly cracked a single joke for the entirety of the game. Anders barely did. Merrill was funny on accident. Aveline had this blunt kind of dry irony that was sometimes funny. Carver and Bethany didn't have a funny bone in either of their bodies. Your culprits are your rogues and your sarcastic Hawke. Otherwise I felt like the humor was just enough to combat the buckets of blood, demon possession, racism and loss that the game focuses on the other 70% of the time.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 02 juin 2012 - 04:03 .

[PsychoBlonde]

I think that the game didn't manage the Heart of Darkness turns quite as well as it could have, but I will say that the last scene with Shamus was *at least* as horrifying if not more so than the Broodmother lead-up in Origins. The only really bad note I saw was that I think they mis-wrote Sarcastic Hawke's lines. Instead of saying to the Viscount something along the lines of "look on the bright side", there was an opportunity for Hawke to make an incredibly vicious sarcastic crack about what she was going to do to the perpetrators or similar. It would have been appropriate voice for Hawke, it would have embraced the horrific aspect instead of trying to minimize it.

The Leandra thing did not work for me at all, but I have a hard time articulating *why*. I think it's because Hawke's reaction was more hysterical than grim, more of an "oh no, oh no! Hurry!" rather than a more fatalistic "we may already be too late!" It didn't match well with the rest of the game which has a very fatalistic feel to it, so it felt a bit like Hawke was in denial. I think true horror depends very much on the dawning realization that it's too late to do anything, but you still have to keep moving toward that oncoming train. Maybe it'll squash you, maybe it won't, but either way, it's out of your hands.

[Kidd]

Don't use Isabela, don't use Varric, don't pick purple options. If you play that way then DA2 is very dark and almost completely devoid of comedy.

Of course, I won't be taking my own advice cause I love those characters. Didn't see anything wrong with the atmosphere of writing in DA2 at all =) Then again I've yet to use Varric much, but he seems well loved on the boards and I love Isabela, so I'll assume he's completely fine.

[Sejborg]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Don't use Isabela, don't use Varric, don't pick purple options. If you play that way then DA2 is very dark and almost completely devoid of comedy.

Also. Don't use Merrill (she is so akward it's cringeworthy funny) and don't use Fenris (he looks so weird it's funny).  

[King Cousland]

You know, I think the art style contributed greatly to my interpretation of the game's general mood. However, I feel that the game on the whole just wasn't as dark as it should have been. In Origins, there was always something sinister lurking behind the scenes, and the misery and trudgery was abundant in places like the Alienage, which was made very clear due to the quality of the writing. In DAII however, everybody for the most part in Kirkwall seemed pretty happy-go-lucky, with a corny joke at the ready that appealed to modern sensibilities. I don't believe the games should be devoid if humour, in fact I like the way it was handled pre-DAII, it just doesn't seem right that the dark elements if a game are overshadowed by humour.

[HiroVoid]

That's kinda a given considering you have a joke option for every occasion.

[The dead fish]

Modifié par Sylvianus, 02 juin 2012 - 11:02 .

[Realmzmaster]

I like the light hearted humor, it provides contrast to the darkness of certain situations. Both DAO and DA2 had these moments. DA2 did not have any more than DAO. Both Alistair and Isabela use it as a shield. Varric and Zev had it as part of their nature. Varric is a storyteller who use humor to ease tension even in a dire situation. One quip in Legacy if you have a female Hawke provides a good chuckle. Zev uses humor as part of his charm.

[Face of Evil]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Fenris did tell a joke in the game in banter with Varric. It was about dancing in his house in High Town. Thought it was hilarious and the reply Varric gave was really funny because he always talks about Fenris being broody.

He also jokes to Varric that his beard must have fallen on to his chest.

All the characters crack jokes at some point or another. Even Merrill has a few moments where she teases another party member.

• Merrill: Your armor is very shiny, Sebastian. Doesn't that make you an easier target?
• Sebastian: The Light of the Maker is my armor, Merrill. I am not afraid.
• Merrill: Maybe you could ask Him to make His Light less shiny? Then you wouldn't need as much armor.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 02 juin 2012 - 07:47 .

[Reznore57]

One thing i missed in DA2 , is creepy things.There were a few.But real creepy atmosphere when you want to put yourself under a cover and leave all the lights on at night.
Like the creepy poem in the deep road and the broodmother.
Or the village of haven with bloody altar , and creepy kids , creepy crazy dragon cult .

[King Cousland]

Reznore57 wrote...

One thing i missed in DA2 , is creepy things.There were a few.But real creepy atmosphere when you want to put yourself under a cover and leave all the lights on at night.
Like the creepy poem in the deep road and the broodmother.
Or the village of haven with bloody altar , and creepy kids , creepy crazy dragon cult .

Yes! This is exactly what I'm talking about! Perhaps it wasn't so much that there was too much humour, it just seemed that way to me because of the absence of things like this. I thought the Alienage orphanage was super dark and creepy, along with most of the Origins stories. 

[Reznore57]

Yeah i remember the first time i played DA0 , as a mage you face this scary sloth demon.It cracked some jokes but damn ,he looks like a bear eaten by zombie , that grow some spikes somehow.
I was impressed ^^. I don't know maybe it's the palette colour or the cinematics ...I guess sundermount is supposed to be scary , but it isn't :s

[Dakota Strider]

Just because DA2 was a joke, does not meant it was light-hearted.



(just could not resist, it was too easy).
Agree that it was "meant" to be dark, but somehow did not pull it off. I think some of the plot stories were dark enough, they just did not follow up with the proper tone afterwards. Isabella was easily the funniest character, and would not want her to tone it down. But somehow, the writers just never seemed to find the right words to mix with the adventures that were intended to be dark.

((and I do not think DA2 is a joke, as I have stated before, just not as good as other Bioware fantasy rpgs I have played)

Modifié par Dakota Strider, 02 juin 2012 - 08:43 .

[King Cousland]

Reznore57 wrote...

Yeah i remember the first time i played DA0 , as a mage you face this scary sloth demon.It cracked some jokes but damn ,he looks like a bear eaten by zombie , that grow some spikes somehow.
I was impressed ^^. I don't know maybe it's the palette colour or the cinematics ...I guess sundermount is supposed to be scary , but it isn't :s

As I said, for me the art style really spoiled what were supposed to be darker moments in the game, especially the climax of quests such as All That Remains (I'm still cringing at that). I think there was too much brightness and cleanliness, as well as it being (IMO) really cartoonish and overly smooth.

[Reznore57]

But i think it lacks some "atmosphere".Like when you do the Haunted quest with Varric.
Despite the character joking , it was supposed to be really scary .Mutilated corpses , flying object , Varric hearing a song.
But the fact that it takes place in one of those Kirkwall mansion that all looked the same , no cinematic that highlight the scary atmosphere ..

I remember in a buffy episode , one character get posessed .She entered the room , with eyes just all white , she had a knife to her face scaring herself and laughing like a maniac.If Varric had done something like that or Isabella or whatever i would have pee my pants.They could have cracked jokes about it later however .

[Dakota Strider]

Begemotka wrote...And who is saying this? I,the one who often acts on BSN like the village idiot.   

Is that an elected position, or did you have to pay someone for it?