215 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

If they want to keep the ending, Bioware writers working on the EC are going to have to:

1) retcon the destruction of the relays so that they remain intact. -- Starbrat lied. So this means redoing all the end cutscenes. Sorry Mac. You ****ed up.

The loss of the relays is catastrophic for every system in the galaxy. Not just the stranded fleets. Remember all the ships involved in the battle are going to need repairs. Parts are going to be scarce. No one is going anywhere no matter what you pick if the relays get destroyed. FTL over those distances is a joke. Asari who are leaving their maiden years will be hitting matriarch stage by the time they reach home -- you guys are too optimistic. I'm going by -- damn, our starcharts were off we're going to have to go sublight for a few years so we can discharge and hopefully refuel then there's food. Cryosleep? Ships aren't equipped for it. No, they're staying put.

The galaxy is returning to the late middle ages, probably with the plague.

Remember Starbrat was throwing a temper tantrum about having his toys taken away and not being able to play destroy the galaxy with them.

2) remove the "Lost" ending. Okay, the easiest way to explain how people got from the Citadel onto the Normandy and crashing on planet Gilligan is to remove the scene and replace it with something completely different. Sorry Mac. You ****ed up again.

3) now it gets more difficult. Dialog has to get added in other parts of the game to lead up to the ending so that it doesn't come as a complete shock. There should have been some kind of hint in the design of the Crucible as to some weird **** in this one area: high voltage wiring leading to hand grips on one area with blue lighting and a walkway leading to it. A center area with green lighting and a walkway leading to it. And a big glass pipe that had explosive material flowing through it painted red with red lighting with a walkway leading to it. Any of the builders think any of this was peculiar? Huh? or did they go full retard?

4) Somehow this big assed Crucible thing had interfaces that connected with the Citadel computer. Whoa. Anyone every think of checking out the Citadel? No. Why would anyone ever do that? They can't do that because it would require additional game play and require the ending to make sense. Damn. And if it makes sense it can't be art. Sorry Mac, you screwed up again. But I guess this could be a paid DLC if they make the ending make sense. *cough* uh doing that means some additional game play, no way around it.



So fun times. Fun times. The EC is going to end up a redo. I think it would be easier to just write an entirely different ending and toss the original.

-----------------

Please remember the goal was never to simply stop the reapers. It was to destroy the reapers.

[Erield]

The loss of communication amongs an empire spanning thousands of light years is far more devastating than even that of quick travel times.

[Stalker]

I don't think our all-star writer Mac Walters ever thought about what the destruction of the Relays really causes.
I fear he will implement the most impossible happenings (Relays are rebuild, Normandy rebuild, Citadel survivors, Earth has no nuclear winter...) to force some kind of happy ending on this catastrophic RGB stuff. His comment on "possible survivors in security chambers" on the Citadel is strong evidence for that.

[Ieldra]

I'm not going to reply to this for the umpteenth time, but instead pointing to my thread Out of the dark age: relays, FTL and rebuilding galactic civilization.

Things don't need to look as bleak as some people paint it here. As Cypher_CS said, star clusters would tend to be self-sustaining and non-relay FTL still works in the high-EMS endings (though perhaps not in low-EMS Destroy).

As for Communication: there won't be an instant cutoff because of QE devices. Low bandwidth will be an issue though, things will be limited to telegram-style messages for some time, and the extranet is down.

Basically, the bad scenario where billions die only comes true if you want it to come true. There is no reason for a nuclear winter on Earth or something like that either. People are hell-bent to be negative for some reason.

Of the so-called "retcons": The only thing I'd rule out for Destroy and Synthesis is fast relay rebuilding (unless in Synthesis you get the Reapers to help, as in the Unofficial Epilogue Slides). For everything else: why not interpret things so that the situation gets better instead of worse? It seems as if dissatisfaction with the ending has conditioned people to paint everything in the darkest possible colors.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 juin 2012 - 10:28 .

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Of the so-called "retcons": The only thing I'd rule out for Destroy and Synthesis is fast relay rebuilding (unless in Synthesis you get the Reapers to help, as in the Unofficial Epilogue Slides). For everything else: why not interpret things so that the situation gets better instead of worse? It seems as if dissatisfaction with the ending has conditioned people to paint everything in the darkest possible colors.

Depends on your definition of fast. If we're talking years to rebuild then i'm fine with that, a thousand no i'm not.

[Stalker]

Ieldra2 wrote...
There is no reason for a nuclear winter on Earth or something like that either. People are hell-bent to be negative for some reason. 

That is something I can not agree with. The smoke and soot of thousands of destroyed cities is ejected into the atmosphere all over the planet. A nuclear winter, lasting for years is a logic consequence of such a war.

[Helios969]

Cypher_CS wrote...

Aren't at least most of these systems self sustaining?

I think OP overstates a bit, but agree that it's an overall disaster.  Most individual systems will be able to adapt relatively quickly.  I'm more concerned about Sol system (and any other systems with huge concentrations of alliance forces.)  With the collective galactic fleets situated in near-Earth orbit it's gonna be a huge resource problem for good ol' blue.  You have thousands of ships and many tens of thousands (hundreds/millions?) of nonhuman races up there in a whole bunch of damaged ships.  They're going to very quickly need food, water, medical supplies, materials for repairing a great many ships (some on the verge of catastrophic failure.)  And we know under the best circumstances humankind is very slow to respond to crisis and catastrophe.

How the hell is Earth and it's few easily accessible planetary bodies gonna be able to help all those races?  And what do you think's gonna happen when Earth isn't forthcoming with that help?  It makes me think of the ME2 conversations with Thane where he tells of the millions/billions left behind on their dying homeworld and the utter anarchy and mass killing that occurred.   As Rakhana died around them, my people slaughtered each other for mouthfuls of water.

It might make for an interesting mini-game if the current ending stands, though I'm not sure enough would buy it to make dev worth while.

[Cypher_CS]

A prerequisite for Nuclear Winter, if I'm not mistaken, is a simultaneous "black out" of the skies.

As long as the damage is not completely covering the Earth, or at least a majority of the Earth, in a fairly opaque way, simultaneously, there's enough room for Weather to curtail the climatic effects.

Nuclear Winter can be created if there are no barometric differences that might offset temperatures.

Take for example what we've witnessed in this past year.
We've had a huge fire in Russia and the Volcano eruption in Europe. We are experiencing, currently, a climate change. But while it is colder today compared to the local climates, it is far from a nuclear winter.
Of course, in the case of what you are proposing, or what ME3 is proposing, the effects would be far worse - but still far from a Nuclear Winter.

[Cypher_CS]

Helios969 wrote...

Cypher_CS wrote...

Aren't at least most of these systems self sustaining?

I think OP overstates a bit, but agree that it's an overall disaster.  Most individual systems will be able to adapt relatively quickly.  I'm more concerned about Sol system (and any other systems with huge concentrations of alliance forces.)  With the collective galactic fleets situated in near-Earth orbit it's gonna be a huge resource problem for good ol' blue.  You have thousands of ships and many tens of thousands (hundreds/millions?) of nonhuman races up there in a whole bunch of damaged ships.  They're going to very quickly need food, water, medical supplies, materials for repairing a great many ships (some on the verge of catastrophic failure.)  And we know under the best circumstances humankind is very slow to respond to crisis and catastrophe.

How the hell is Earth and it's few easily accessible planetary bodies gonna be able to help all those races?  And what do you think's gonna happen when Earth isn't forthcoming with that help?  It makes me think of the ME2 conversations with Thane where he tells of the millions/billions left behind on their dying homeworld and the utter anarchy and mass killing that occurred.   As Rakhana died around them, my people slaughtered each other for mouthfuls of water.

It might make for an interesting mini-game if the current ending stands, though I'm not sure enough would buy it to make dev worth while.

That I won't argue with.
Earth is going to have a tough time entertaining all these guests.

Although, still there are ships with FTL that might lighten the load, as well as QE communications to bring in help from near systems. Will take time, and will need rationing for a while. But doable.

I personally find it funny how ignorant people are of humans' capabilities to survive.

Modifié par Cypher_CS, 03 juin 2012 - 10:54 .

[JBPBRC]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Any of the builders think any of this was peculiar? Huh? or did they go full retard?

They went full retard. If you save Mordin, you're able to learn this from a message he sends out after he starts working on the Crucible. The engineers didn't deviate from the plans by a centimeter, they just did the color-by-numbers treatment. Mordin at least tried to get them to improve it.

Obviously it doesn't work since the ending is the same no matter what.

Wouldn't that be something? If saving Mordin gave us a radically different ending due to his Crucible work? That'd be interesting.

[Stalker]

Cypher_CS wrote...
A prerequisite for Nuclear Winter, if I'm not mistaken, is a simultaneous "black out" of the skies.

That is pretty much given in London. Analyzing the circumstances, a huge part of the Earh looks like that.

[Shallyah]

Or they could, you know, settle in the rich, inhabitable planet they have just below. The Reapers would begin attacking big cities where there is a greater concentration of humans, but all farmlands and natural resources of Earth would be intact to host a good number of aliens, that can take the place of the devastating casualties that Eerth took during the weeks (months?) that the Reapers occupied it.

There will be a time of crisis in Earth, but the worst will be behind already once the Reapers are gone.

Modifié par Shallyah, 03 juin 2012 - 11:17 .

[Cypher_CS]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Cypher_CS wrote...
A prerequisite for Nuclear Winter, if I'm not mistaken, is a simultaneous "black out" of the skies.

That is pretty much given in London. Analyzing the circumstances, a huge part of the Earh looks like that.

No no, that's not a Nuclear Winter like black out.
It's mostly smoke, not ashes. And it's not covering the whole of London.
Even if it were, these would be specifici and strategic locations around the planet - major cities, capitals etc'. Not the entirety or even majority of it.

[RiouHotaru]

Oh boy, here we go again.

Another thread detailing why the galaxy is utterly ruined by the loss of the Relays.

And there's AngryShepard, sarcastically quoting logical, sound reasons why it's not that big a deal, despite the evidence and the fact Weekes confirmed quite a few of those reasons as being quite sound too.

Watch as the EC completely flies in the face on this topic and people will get pissy because the ending doesn't realistically depict what you THINK should happen.

[vixvicco]

bump

[Stalker]

Cypher_CS wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

Cypher_CS wrote...
A prerequisite for Nuclear Winter, if I'm not mistaken, is a simultaneous "black out" of the skies.

That is pretty much given in London. Analyzing the circumstances, a huge part of the Earh looks like that.

No no, that's not a Nuclear Winter like black out.
It's mostly smoke, not ashes. And it's not covering the whole of London.
Even if it were, these would be specifici and strategic locations around the planet - major cities, capitals etc'. Not the entirety or even majority of it.

(can't find a better picture)


Imagine this Earth, plus thousands of ships firing directly on it and most of them crashing on the surface with the combined mass of an asteroid. The hemisphere where the last battle was taking place, will defnitely go through a real nuclear winter. 

[Cypher_CS]

That's a great picture, showing clouds and clearings....

About those ships - if they all enter on one trajectory, melt together on entry into the atmosphere - not get burned on the entry, and hit the same spot... It still won't be a strong enough hit. Come on, get real.

[Shaani]

Ieldra2 wrote...

For everything else: why not interpret things so that the situation gets better instead of worse?

Well, people who are literally having a nervous breakdown over the ending being unsatisfying are attempting to justify being so emotional over something so silly. 

Also, some species of fans are fond of nitpicking these things as if they were real, and authorial intent did not exist. 

"If Bioware wrote an ending where Shepard lives, then surely he dies ten seconds later because I've examined every pixel of that cutscene and here's a page full of math based on my vague assumptions to explain why the people who created Shepard in the first place are wrong and I am right . . . . . "

[Helios969]

Shallyah wrote...

Or they could, you know, settle in the rich, inhabitable planet they have just below. The Reapers would begin attacking big cities where there is a greater concentration of humans, but all farmlands and natural resources of Earth would be intact to host a good number of aliens, that can take the place of the devastating casualties that Eerth took during the weeks (months?) that the Reapers occupied it.

There will be a time of crisis in Earth, but the worst will be behind already once the Reapers are gone.

Which is actually a retarded aspect of the story.  The first thing(s) an invading force bent on genocide would do would be to destroy the farmlands, poison the drinking water, and seize and/or destroy as much of the natural resources it could in the initial attack.

[Stalker]

Cypher_CS wrote...

That's a great picture, showing clouds and clearings....

About those ships - if they all enter on one trajectory, melt together on entry into the atmosphere - not get burned on the entry, and hit the same spot... It still won't be a strong enough hit. Come on, get real.

1. The forces of all the galaxy just unleashed their load right onto Earth. Not even half of the projectiles hit a target. Remember the ME2-Citadel guy? How many times Hiroshima?
2. Talking about which side got attacked: Europe. Full of burning ruins of large cities.
3. All these ships plus the giant Citadel crash! Devistating power to swirl up enough dust to darken this hemisphere for years.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 03 juin 2012 - 11:56 .

[RiouHotaru]

Yeah, I never understood people's fixation on the ending that the endings MUST have purely negative long-term consquences, refusing to believe in any sort of positive long-term outcome.

I was told by one person that "The game offers no other alternative." As though they'd been given some kind of secret factual information that only they were privy too. See, the people, like Ieldra2, aren't saying they couldn't be wrong. They just want an opposing view to be considered.

Meanwhile, the people in the "Doom and Gloom" camp refuse to consider ANY possible opposing view.

[Jassu1979]

Honestly, when I hear that some developer twitters how every named character survives the destruction of the Citadel just because the alternative would be too grim, that just illustrates to me how they're trying to control the damage caused by this spectacular clusterf... of an ending.

It's as if the studio that produced "Blade Runner" publicly announced that Deckard and Rachel aren't in fact driving towards an utterly implausible happy ending, but that *clearly* this was intended as something else entirely.

[Jassu1979]

And again, I am NOT talking about long-term consequences, but about the immediate catastrophe on hand.
Whoever wrote this part of the script has not thought these matters through at all. Not even a little.

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

 Well the reapers won't return and the Yahg still inherit the galaxy.  

Yeah I don't like it either.

[danby]

Depending on how the mass effect gates work, you may not be able to rebuild the network for 50000 years or so. If you need a second side to complete the jump then you would need to confirm the co-ordinates manually first, before you could jump to the location. That means going there under regular power which may take hundreds of years per gate.

I got the feeling that the whole quantum entanglment communication arrays were kinda a human only thing. All other communications were probably routed through the jump gates. This means there is probably not a way to communicate with the systems where the gates are without physically being there.

Now if you only need one side of the gate to shoot you to the location, then this point is moot. It would still take a long time, but probably in the 10s to 100's of years.