131 réponses à ce sujet

[mrcanada]

Bump.

[Jonathan Shepard]

This should be looked into. I want another video proof for the counter-point.

[HellishFiend]

I suppose it's glass cannon-only builds for the Phoenix characters until we get a fix.

[CrashLegacy]

Relix28 wrote...

Silasqtx wrote...

Fitness doesn't or partially works.

 


My guess is on Fitness rank6. 

You need to take a couple of things into consideration here. 

For one, Ops survival pack doesn't just refil your shields, it also gives your shields a temporary boost. You used an ops pack before the marauder melee'd your Novaguard, but you didn't use it on your Phoenixguard.

Anoher thing you need to know is that Vanguards get a 50% damage reduction for about 4 seconds after every successful charge. And you couldn't really tell from that vid, if you charged before taking damage (when damage reduction was still active), or not.

With that said, I think you should record another comparison vid, but this time without using charge or survival ops packs, before taking damage.

I'll do some more testing myself, and I'll post the results in here when I'm done.

While those may be true, the Phoneix charaters defintely do suffer from soem health/shiedl related bug in fitness.

[Immortal Strife]

CrashLegacy wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

Silasqtx wrote...

Fitness doesn't or partially works.

 


My guess is on Fitness rank6. 

You need to take a couple of things into consideration here. 

For one, Ops survival pack doesn't just refil your shields, it also gives your shields a temporary boost. You used an ops pack before the marauder melee'd your Novaguard, but you didn't use it on your Phoenixguard.

Anoher thing you need to know is that Vanguards get a 50% damage reduction for about 4 seconds after every successful charge. And you couldn't really tell from that vid, if you charged before taking damage (when damage reduction was still active), or not.

With that said, I think you should record another comparison vid, but this time without using charge or survival ops packs, before taking damage.

I'll do some more testing myself, and I'll post the results in here when I'm done.

While those may be true, the Phoneix charaters defintely do suffer from soem health/shiedl related bug in fitness.

Ahh, but where? We need more testing to create optimal builds.

[Dethecus09]

Bumping.

[mase1771]

Relix28 wrote...

Dethecus09 wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

Silasqtx wrote...

Fitness doesn't or partially works.

 


My guess is on Fitness rank6. 

You need to take a couple of things into consideration here. 

For one, Ops survival pack doesn't just refil your shields, it also gives your shields a temporary boost. You used an ops pack before the marauder melee'd your Novaguard, but you didn't use it on your Phoenixguard.

Anoher thing you need to know is that Vanguards get a 50% damage reduction for about 4 seconds after every successful charge. And you couldn't really tell from that vid, if you charged before taking damage (when damage reduction was still active), or not.

With that said, I think you should record another comparison vid, but this time without using charge or survival ops packs, before taking damage.

I'll do some more testing myself, and I'll post the results in here when I'm done.

Since when?

Yea, I would also like to know... <_<

It's a hidden feature of Biotic Charge, since for ever. Not many poeple know about it though. If you dont believe me, test it for yourself.


Also, the results are in. No Biotic Charge or Survival Ops packs used before taking damage.


Marauder melee (silver)

Phoenix Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Asari Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Phoenix Adept 825/825 - whole barrier gone

Human Vanguard 825/825 - whole barrier gone



Full Canibal Burst (silver)

Phoenix Vanuard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Asari Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Phoenix Adept 825/825 - only a sliver of barrier left

Human Vanguard 825/825 - only a sliver of barrier left (same as Phoenix Adept)


Conclusion? Fintess tree on Phoenix characters works fine. Please disregard OP's vid, since it doesn't take either survival ops pack shield boost or biotic charge's damage reduction into consideration.
And can someone please make a proper comparison vid, so we can put this myth behind us already?

not trying to be rude here but you didnt disprove anything because you provided zero proof of your findings. OP provided a video atleast. I could have just typed up something along those lines without ever even testing it. saying disregard somebody else's PROOF because you typed something up and said it was true doesnt make it so. I have never noticed a damage reduction after charging and I am sure many will say the same thing. Regardless you did more speculation on his video than you did providing actual proof of you being correct. So for now I have to side with the OP considering I have first hand experience with what he is saying (full shields and full health was OHK by a grenade that i was on the outside edge of).


EDIT: after rewatching the video I find relix is completely wrong about the Op pack. he used it on a completely different part of the map. I know the damage redux doesnt last long enough for him to get to where he used it and then travel to next part of the map in the video and it still provide the reduction. He edited the video for clarity and to make it shorter so we didnt have to watch him randomly run around.

Modifié par mase1771, 03 juin 2012 - 05:35 .

[dunx125]

It would be very helpful to know which evolution is bugged (or whether the whole tree is bugged). At least the melee damage bonuses seem to work.

[ajburges]

mase1771 wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

Dethecus09 wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

Silasqtx wrote...

Fitness doesn't or partially works.

 


My guess is on Fitness rank6. 

You need to take a couple of things into consideration here. 

For one, Ops survival pack doesn't just refil your shields, it also gives your shields a temporary boost. You used an ops pack before the marauder melee'd your Novaguard, but you didn't use it on your Phoenixguard.

Anoher thing you need to know is that Vanguards get a 50% damage reduction for about 4 seconds after every successful charge. And you couldn't really tell from that vid, if you charged before taking damage (when damage reduction was still active), or not.

With that said, I think you should record another comparison vid, but this time without using charge or survival ops packs, before taking damage.

I'll do some more testing myself, and I'll post the results in here when I'm done.

Since when?

Yea, I would also like to know... <_<

It's a hidden feature of Biotic Charge, since for ever. Not many poeple know about it though. If you dont believe me, test it for yourself.


Also, the results are in. No Biotic Charge or Survival Ops packs used before taking damage.


Marauder melee (silver)

Phoenix Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Asari Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Phoenix Adept 825/825 - whole barrier gone

Human Vanguard 825/825 - whole barrier gone



Full Canibal Burst (silver)

Phoenix Vanuard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Asari Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Phoenix Adept 825/825 - only a sliver of barrier left

Human Vanguard 825/825 - only a sliver of barrier left (same as Phoenix Adept)


Conclusion? Fintess tree on Phoenix characters works fine. Please disregard OP's vid, since it doesn't take either survival ops pack shield boost or biotic charge's damage reduction into consideration.
And can someone please make a proper comparison vid, so we can put this myth behind us already?

not trying to be rude here but you didnt disprove anything because you provided zero proof of your findings. OP provided a video atleast. I could have just typed up something along those lines without ever even testing it. saying disregard somebody else's PROOF because you typed something up and said it was true doesnt make it so. I have never noticed a damage reduction after charging and I am sure many will say the same thing. Regardless you did more speculation on his video than you did providing actual proof of you being correct. So for now I have to side with the OP considering I have first hand experience with what he is saying (full shields and full health was OHK by a grenade that i was on the outside edge of).


EDIT: after rewatching the video I find relix is completely wrong about the Op pack. he used it on a completely different part of the map. I know the damage redux doesnt last long enough for him to get to where he used it and then travel to next part of the map in the video and it still provide the reduction. He edited the video for clarity and to make it shorter so we didnt have to watch him randomly run around.

I'm sure if charge gave DR we would have herd about it by now anyway (After all we know Batterian heavy melee gives 70% DR). If it does, it warrents a simular thread.

Atheosis wrote...

underm1nd wrote...

Bump, this should stay on the first page.

Won't matter.  Bioware won't fix it for months if they ever fix it at all.

 
We should bump it daily. That way when it gets locked for spam we at least know someone at Bioware acknowledges the problem. With their release schedule, using production as QA/Beta testing is unacceptable. I would be tossed out in no time if I was so irresponsible with my releases.

[Pekkan]

Other non-Krogan vanguards have powers independent of charge cooldown, nova with it's immunity frames or grenades, and Asari has stasis which is better "oh crap" CC power than lash, so I guess it would be mostly that their survivability tools are weakest of non-Krogan vanguards, for Krogan their raw shield and stagger immunity are such assets that they don't need grenades or nova or stasis, but for Ex-Cerb vanguard their only CC independent of other cooldowns is their heavy melee. Maybe that makes them feel squishier.

Also Lash has very long cast animation, that leaves you vulnerable, also it can't be made AoE like throw/pull.

[joker_jack]

This would explain alot. I've been wanting to take the ex cerberus onto gold but looks like I may not for the time being until the fitness bug is fixed.

[UKStory135]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that the Phoenix's health is bugged.

[RequiemPrime]

It really is disappointing. The Phoenix Vanguard was the character I was looking forward to the most and I was lucky enough that the store decided to be kind and give him to me the day the DLC came out. But now.........

[mase1771]

joker_jack wrote...

This would explain alot. I've been wanting to take the ex cerberus onto gold but looks like I may not for the time being until the fitness bug is fixed.

you can play them on gold but you gotta be on your game (no pun intended) I feel the adept at this point in time is the only viable one for gold. especially if you have other biotics with you.

[Kuro_Fenikkusu]

Does this apply to the phoenix adept as well? I've noticed anyone who play one goes down extremely quickly and extremely often. When I play the phoenix adept I have to be careful it seems like every attack rips me to shreds.

[D Amiri]

The DR on charge is not some "new" theory. It was data mined from the .ini files as soon as they started mining them. Go digging in the data mining threads if you need more proof but that's 3 month old news.

[Pekkan]

ajburges wrote...

I'm sure if charge gave DR we would have herd about it by now anyway (After all we know Batterian heavy melee gives 70% DR). If it does, it warrents a simular thread.

It does, it is pretty easy to test on bronze rocket trooper, with my Phoenix vanguard fitness 3 + cyclonic I + Stronghold Pack V, with no charge, one rocket trooper rocket brought the barrier to the half way above of the 1st health bar, couple seconds after the charge, rock brought the barrier down only to the point above about 1/3 of the 3rd health above.

[RequiemPrime]

Kuro_Fenikkusu wrote...

Does this apply to the phoenix adept as well? I've noticed anyone who play one goes down extremely quickly and extremely often. When I play the phoenix adept I have to be careful it seems like every attack rips me to shreds.

Yes it does.  Both Phoenix characters have this problem.

[Pekkan]

I still think it is more of the fact that phoenix characters in terms of their survivability tools compete more with Alliance adept than the more popular biotic character.

Modifié par Pekkan, 03 juin 2012 - 06:37 .

[mandalorian sun]

Pekkan wrote...

I still think it is more of the fact that phoenix characters in terms of their survivability tools compete more with Alliance adept than the more popular biotic character.

I am trying to figure out what you mean. The human adept is awesome, his skills can detonate any target with the maximum radius, at faster speeds than any other adept except on armored targets, which is the same speed. 

[Pekkan]

Well haven't played Alliance adept enough I guess. But anyways the issues that contribute to Phoenix chars going down fast

- long casting animations, so lash and smash can't really compete with tools like statis and grenade spam, also the longer range cc lash in addition to long cast animation is not aoe.
- no powers independent of charge cooldown, grenades, nova etc
- no reave damage reduction

So I think that based on their powers, it really isn't surprising if they feel a lot squishier than other biotics.

Modifié par Pekkan, 03 juin 2012 - 06:49 .

[Booshnickins]

Pretty sure the Male Quarian Engineer is bugged too. With Fitness maxed, he goes down faster than a Drell does.

[mase1771]

D Amiri wrote...

The DR on charge is not some "new" theory. It was data mined from the .ini files as soon as they started mining them. Go digging in the data mining threads if you need more proof but that's 3 month old news.

I searched the forum and didnt find a single mention of the Charge damage reduction. Do you have a link?


EDIT: Searched using terms: data mine(ing), ini files, Biotic charge, damage reduction, Biotic charge damage reduction and got ZERO mention of it. There was a mention of invincibility frames but thats hardly a DR.

Modifié par mase1771, 03 juin 2012 - 06:59 .

[Aaron360]

I love the video proof, but all anyone needs is first hand experience on silver/gold with these characters to know that with Fitness maxed for health/shields, something is very wrong indeed. You can tell me till you're blue in the face that it isn't bugged and I'll keep laughing.

What if the levels for health/shields reads reads 700 but only really set to something like 3 or 400? Just because it shows those #'s doesn't mean that's what it actually is. That means fitness could indeed be working, but the increase we see on the screen isn't the actual amount we have at our disposal.

Whatever the case, it needs to be fixed. Maybe they'll fix that the same day they fix the Justicar...hahaha funny man

[Kuro_Fenikkusu]

What's wrong with the justicar? I play that class all the time I haven't noticed anything.