131 réponses à ce sujet

[Aaron360]

Kuro_Fenikkusu wrote...

What's wrong with the justicar? I play that class all the time I haven't noticed anything.

As do I, she's my fav character, but Power damage increase at rank 5 of the Asari Justicar skill tree is bugged and doesn't work, so either pick headshot damage to get to rank 6 or skip it altogether and put those points elsewhere.

Modifié par Aaron360, 03 juin 2012 - 07:19 .

[reioni]

i'm gonna have to +1 for something isnt right with the adept or vangaurd

[Count Viceroy]

I can, and do make the phoenix vanguard work in gold, in pubs no less. But something still feels off. I die way too easily. Something definately feels wrong. Almost as if the shield and health gates weren't there, which would make you drop like a rock. 

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 03 juin 2012 - 07:57 .

[heybigmoney]

Relix28 wrote...

Dethecus09 wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

Silasqtx wrote...

Fitness doesn't or partially works.

 


My guess is on Fitness rank6. 

You need to take a couple of things into consideration here. 

For one, Ops survival pack doesn't just refil your shields, it also gives your shields a temporary boost. You used an ops pack before the marauder melee'd your Novaguard, but you didn't use it on your Phoenixguard.

Anoher thing you need to know is that Vanguards get a 50% damage reduction for about 4 seconds after every successful charge. And you couldn't really tell from that vid, if you charged before taking damage (when damage reduction was still active), or not.

With that said, I think you should record another comparison vid, but this time without using charge or survival ops packs, before taking damage.

I'll do some more testing myself, and I'll post the results in here when I'm done.

Since when?

Yea, I would also like to know... <_<

It's a hidden feature of Biotic Charge, since for ever. Not many poeple know about it though. If you dont believe me, test it for yourself.


Also, the results are in. No Biotic Charge or Survival Ops packs used before taking damage.


Marauder melee (silver)

Phoenix Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Asari Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Phoenix Adept 825/825 - whole barrier gone

Human Vanguard 825/825 - whole barrier gone



Full Canibal Burst (silver)

Phoenix Vanuard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Asari Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Phoenix Adept 825/825 - only a sliver of barrier left

Human Vanguard 825/825 - only a sliver of barrier left (same as Phoenix Adept)


Conclusion? Fintess tree on Phoenix characters works fine. Please disregard OP's vid, since it doesn't take either survival ops pack shield boost or biotic charge's damage reduction into consideration.
And can someone please make a proper comparison vid, so we can put this myth behind us already?

Thanks for doing this.  The fitness bug threads seem full of misinformation and anecdotal evidence.  It seems likely that it was just an excuse for bad play.

[Count Viceroy]

heybigmoney wrote...

Thanks for doing this.  The fitness bug threads seem full of misinformation and anecdotal evidence.  It seems likely that it was just an excuse for bad play.

We only have his word of this, there's no proof to back this up....

[mandalorian sun]

yeah seriously this is way too obvious. I can work the adept even with the fitness issue, but i definitely remember the first few times i tried smash and being shocked about dying before my animation even finished when i started with full health and shield. Now unless i'm behind a wall, i will lose at least a health bar or three if so much as two guys fire a burst at me while i'm still in animation, and i'm guaranteed to die if i missed my target and he's got a friend.

[Relix28]

Count Viceroy wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Thanks for doing this.  The fitness bug threads seem full of misinformation and anecdotal evidence.  It seems likely that it was just an excuse for bad play.

We only have his word of this, there's no proof to back this up....

I would have recorded my tests, if I could. I don't have any reason to lie here. What would that accomplish exactly, besides making me look stupid after someone made a proper video comarison?

If you don't believe me, you can run the same tests I did, and I assure you, you will get the same results. Just don't make the same mistake OP did in his video. Do not use biotic charge or ops survival packs before taking damage. And you will see that the Fitness tree on Phoenix characters is working just fine.



Also, my gues why people are finding Phoenix Vanguards more squishy than other more charge-spamm oriented Vanguards (like Novaguards for instance), is because they loose their damage reduction bonus, every time they use Lash or Smash. The damage reduction bonus supposedly lasts about 4 seconds after a succesful charge, then it goes away. So, for instance, Novaguards will constantly charge to keep those barriers up, so they can keep on spamming Nova's. That means, as long as they are charging, they will have a 50% damage reduction bonus active. With Phoenix Vanguards, however, most people are mixing it up with Smash and Lash (I know I do). And using Smash and Lash instead of Charge means less damage reduction time, wich of course makes him much more squishier compared to a constant charge spammer. And that has nothing to do with the Fitness tree (wich is perfectly functional btw), but rather with Phoenixguard's skillset and playstyle.

Modifié par Relix28, 03 juin 2012 - 09:04 .

[mase1771]

again some one post a link to the thread about biotic charge having damage reduction. I've searched and searched some more and it seems to be either gone/missing

[TimonPumba]

I don't think he's bugged. I played with the Adept against Reapers a few times on Gold today and used Slash heavily. I only died once or twice a match, which is pretty normal.

[Pekkan]

mase1771 wrote...

again some one post a link to the thread about biotic charge having damage reduction. I've searched and searched some more and it seems to be either gone/missing

There is a lone rocket trooper on bronze Wave 2, play around with him to see it yourself. 

[N7 Whiskey]

Relix28 wrote...


It's a hidden feature of Biotic Charge, since for ever. Not many poeple know about it though. If you dont believe me, test it for yourself.


Also, the results are in. No Biotic Charge or Survival Ops packs used before taking damage.


Marauder melee (silver)

Phoenix Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Asari Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Phoenix Adept 825/825 - whole barrier gone

Human Vanguard 825/825 - whole barrier gone



Full Canibal Burst (silver)

Phoenix Vanuard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Asari Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Phoenix Adept 825/825 - only a sliver of barrier left

Human Vanguard 825/825 - only a sliver of barrier left (same as Phoenix Adept)


Conclusion? Fintess tree on Phoenix characters works fine. Please disregard OP's vid, since it doesn't take either survival ops pack shield boost or biotic charge's damage reduction into consideration.
And can someone please make a proper comparison vid, so we can put this myth behind us already?

lol you are doing something very wrong then.  I have played extensively with both Phoenix characters and their shields are most definitely bugged.  I have tried both with full health/shields on Fitness and with ZERO points invested in Fitness and there is ZERO difference in survivablilty.

[Pekkan]

Pekkan wrote...

mase1771 wrote...

again some one post a link to the thread about biotic charge having damage reduction. I've searched and searched some more and it seems to be either gone/missing

There is a lone rocket trooper on bronze Wave 2, play around with him to see it yourself. 

You can even see several second lasting biotic glow on your character after charge, where as for lash the biotic glow ends almost immediately after the casting animation ends.

[Relix28]

mase1771 wrote...


not trying to be rude here but you didnt disprove anything because you provided zero proof of your findings. OP provided a video atleast. I could have just typed up something along those lines without ever even testing it. saying disregard somebody else's PROOF because you typed something up and said it was true doesnt make it so. I have never noticed a damage reduction after charging and I am sure many will say the same thing. Regardless you did more speculation on his video than you did providing actual proof of you being correct. So for now I have to side with the OP considering I have first hand experience with what he is saying (full shields and full health was OHK by a grenade that i was on the outside edge of).


EDIT: after rewatching the video I find relix is completely wrong about the Op pack. he used it on a completely different part of the map. I know the damage redux doesnt last long enough for him to get to where he used it and then travel to next part of the map in the video and it still provide the reduction. He edited the video for clarity and to make it shorter so we didnt have to watch him randomly run around.

No, you are wrong. Watch the vid again and pause it @ 0:05, where his Novaguard gets hit by marauder's melee. See that glow on his armor? That means he used an ops pack before he got melee'd. Wich means the shield boost bonus from the ops pack was still active.

mase1771 wrote...

again some one post a link to the thread about biotic charge having damage reduction. I've searched and searched some more and it seems to be either gone/missing

I can't seem to find a thread about charge's damage reduction. It is mentioned in this thread, for instance.


I also just tested this on my Novaguard.


Marauder melee (silver)

Human Vanguard 825/825 (no charge) - looses all of his barrier

Human Vanguard 825/825 (after a charge) - still has barrier left (about a fifth or so)


Once, again, I don't have recording equipment to make a vid about this. And believe me, I would, if I coud, because this is getting kinda ridiculous, and I would love to put an end to this. You can, however, test it for yourself, if you don't believe me. It is a very simple thing to do.

[Aaron360]

BuckshotSamurai wrote...

Relix28 wrote...


It's a hidden feature of Biotic Charge, since for ever. Not many poeple know about it though. If you dont believe me, test it for yourself.


Also, the results are in. No Biotic Charge or Survival Ops packs used before taking damage.


Marauder melee (silver)

Phoenix Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Asari Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Phoenix Adept 825/825 - whole barrier gone

Human Vanguard 825/825 - whole barrier gone



Full Canibal Burst (silver)

Phoenix Vanuard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Asari Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Phoenix Adept 825/825 - only a sliver of barrier left

Human Vanguard 825/825 - only a sliver of barrier left (same as Phoenix Adept)


Conclusion? Fintess tree on Phoenix characters works fine. Please disregard OP's vid, since it doesn't take either survival ops pack shield boost or biotic charge's damage reduction into consideration.
And can someone please make a proper comparison vid, so we can put this myth behind us already?

lol you are doing something very wrong then.  I have played extensively with both Phoenix characters and their shields are most definitely bugged.  I have tried both with full health/shields on Fitness and with ZERO points invested in Fitness and there is ZERO difference in survivablilty.

Agreed. You max out fitness for health/shields with any other character and your survivabilty is noticeable. Not with these guys. I'm not saying they aren't playable, they are, and infact still very fun. Just sucks that I have very little confidence in him compared to my so called squishy little asari van.

Modifié par Aaron360, 03 juin 2012 - 09:48 .

[Pekkan]

If you want to test the charge damage reduction yourself, you can easily test it on Bronze Geth Wave 2 against the rocket trooper, lash is very nice for cleaning the wave 2 Geth Troopers without hurting the rocket trooper, did it and it was pretty obvious.

Modifié par Pekkan, 03 juin 2012 - 09:51 .

[Relix28]

BuckshotSamurai wrote...

Relix28 wrote...


It's a hidden feature of Biotic Charge, since for ever. Not many poeple know about it though. If you dont believe me, test it for yourself.


Also, the results are in. No Biotic Charge or Survival Ops packs used before taking damage.


Marauder melee (silver)

Phoenix Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Asari Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Phoenix Adept 825/825 - whole barrier gone

Human Vanguard 825/825 - whole barrier gone



Full Canibal Burst (silver)

Phoenix Vanuard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Asari Vanguard 700/700 - whole barrier gone

Phoenix Adept 825/825 - only a sliver of barrier left

Human Vanguard 825/825 - only a sliver of barrier left (same as Phoenix Adept)


Conclusion? Fintess tree on Phoenix characters works fine. Please disregard OP's vid, since it doesn't take either survival ops pack shield boost or biotic charge's damage reduction into consideration.
And can someone please make a proper comparison vid, so we can put this myth behind us already?

lol you are doing something very wrong then.  I have played extensively with both Phoenix characters and their shields are most definitely bugged.  I have tried both with full health/shields on Fitness and with ZERO points invested in Fitness and there is ZERO difference in survivablilty.

Have you done some testing like I did, or is this just more anecdotal evidence? Because we really need more anecdotal evidence in this thread.

Modifié par Relix28, 03 juin 2012 - 09:52 .

[RBX250]

I am inclined to believe the fitness works fine. I was playing with the adept today with max fitness and he didn't seem the least bit squishy to me.

[Aaron360]

RBX250 wrote...

I am inclined to believe the fitness works fine. I was playing with the adept today with max fitness and he didn't seem the least bit squishy to me.

To make things more interesting/confusing, the adept seems less squishy to me than the vanguard. And I don't use charge with the new vanguard, so both are on equal playing fields. I use lash mostly and smash/heavy melee when it calls for it. The vanguard just goes down a lot more for me. I wish all of this nonsense would be addressed/fixed so we could move on.

*The adept is very playable on Gold. Used him lastnight and lash against troublesome geth was hilarious.

[mase1771]

Relix28 wrote...

mase1771 wrote...


not trying to be rude here but you didnt disprove anything because you provided zero proof of your findings. OP provided a video atleast. I could have just typed up something along those lines without ever even testing it. saying disregard somebody else's PROOF because you typed something up and said it was true doesnt make it so. I have never noticed a damage reduction after charging and I am sure many will say the same thing. Regardless you did more speculation on his video than you did providing actual proof of you being correct. So for now I have to side with the OP considering I have first hand experience with what he is saying (full shields and full health was OHK by a grenade that i was on the outside edge of).


EDIT: after rewatching the video I find relix is completely wrong about the Op pack. he used it on a completely different part of the map. I know the damage redux doesnt last long enough for him to get to where he used it and then travel to next part of the map in the video and it still provide the reduction. He edited the video for clarity and to make it shorter so we didnt have to watch him randomly run around.

No, you are wrong. Watch the vid again and pause it @ 0:05, where his Novaguard gets hit by marauder's melee. See that glow on his armor? That means he used an ops pack before he got melee'd. Wich means the shield boost bonus from the ops pack was still active.

mase1771 wrote...

again some one post a link to the thread about biotic charge having damage reduction. I've searched and searched some more and it seems to be either gone/missing

I can't seem to find a thread about charge's damage reduction. It is mentioned in this thread, for instance.


I also just tested this on my Novaguard.


Marauder melee (silver)

Human Vanguard 825/825 (no charge) - looses all of his barrier

Human Vanguard 825/825 (after a charge) - still has barrier left (about a fifth or so)


Once, again, I don't have recording equipment to make a vid about this. And believe me, I would, if I coud, because this is getting kinda ridiculous, and I would love to put an end to this. You can, however, test it for yourself, if you don't believe me. It is a very simple thing to do.

after watching and watching it I find its hard to tell honestly to me it looks as though it could be the lighting and the color of his armor and at the same time it looks as though it could be the glow effect. I will stand corrected right now relix and I'm not trying to call anyone liars or trolls just stating we need way more evidence for it to go either way.

also FWIW regardless of how the shield is regenerated it gives visual cues that its been recharged (or depleted for that matter). It may or maynot have anything to do with the video just simple food for thought.

Modifié par mase1771, 03 juin 2012 - 10:02 .

[Relix28]

EDIT: nvrmind

Modifié par Relix28, 03 juin 2012 - 10:03 .

[Xx_Belzak_xX]

Give it time. I'm sure Bioware will fix it eventually. About 6 months from now.

[Silasqtx]

FYI, Packs/Charge were done a LOT before taking damage. By the way, no packs were used when the Marauder melee'd me (both cases) so sorry to say it but that argument is invalid.

[Relix28]

Silasqtx wrote...

FYI, Packs/Charge were done a LOT before taking damage. By the way, no packs were used when the Marauder melee'd me (both cases) so sorry to say it but that argument is invalid.

Then why was your armor glowing (freeze the video @ 0:06)? It is a very distinctive glow that only happens, when you use a survival ops pack. And the visual effect persists for about 5 seconds or so (might be wrong on the exact time). That is also the amount of time your shield capacity is boosted by the ops pack. For reference, you also used a survival ops pack on your Phoenix Vanguard before taking damage @ 0:27.
And this is all largely irrelevant. You did not take Charge's temporary damage reduction and ops survival pack's temporary effective shield boost into account, when you were making the video. I'm not trying to be a dick and I appreciate you taking the time to make the vid. But the comparison is inacurate. If you want to make an accurate comparison, use two characters with the same amount of shields/health, and do not use ops packs or biotic charge prior to taking damage. I would appreciate, if you would make another comparison vid, but do it properly this time, so we can put an end to this.

Modifié par Relix28, 03 juin 2012 - 11:45 .

[Neon Slate]

Late bump

[Silasqtx]

Relix28 wrote...

Silasqtx wrote...

FYI, Packs/Charge were done a LOT before taking damage. By the way, no packs were used when the Marauder melee'd me (both cases) so sorry to say it but that argument is invalid.

Then why was your armor glowing (freeze the video @ 0:06)? It is a very distinctive glow that only happens, when you use a survival ops pack. And the visual effect persists for about 5 seconds or so (might be wrong on the exact time). That is also the amount of time your shield capacity is boosted by the ops pack. For reference, you also used a survival ops pack on your Phoenix Vanguard before taking damage @ 0:27.
And this is all largely irrelevant. You did not take Charge's temporary damage reduction and ops survival pack's temporary effective shield boost into account, when you were making the video. I'm not trying to be a dick and I appreciate you taking the time to make the vid. But the comparison is inacurate. If you want to make an accurate comparison, use two characters with the same amount of shields/health, and do not use ops packs or biotic charge prior to taking damage. I would appreciate, if you would make another comparison vid, but do it properly this time, so we can put an end to this.

Sorry, look at the video more carefully. I have no cooldowns during every test so it's impossible that I have some kind of damage reduction or whatever (assuming that the DR lasts for 2-3 seconds max, because my charge has 3.5 secs. cooldown).

At 0.06 I didn't use a pack, idk why my shield got up but I didn't use it; check the top left corner. If you mean using it BEFORE then no because the clip itself is long enough to dismiss this claim (wink wink). If you want I'll post you the whole sequence just to be clear, but I really hope that we don't come to this and you (and others probably) trust my word on it.

For more proof check the obituaries in the bottom right corner. You'll see that I didn't kill (almost) nobody with the charge.

Hope that clears something up

Also, GMT+1 morning bump.

Modifié par Silasqtx, 04 juin 2012 - 06:27 .