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[Bug] Phoenix Vanguard Barrier

Débuté par Silasqtx , juin 03 2012 12:30

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#101
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Posté 04 juin 2012 - 07:17

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Ichthys163 wrote...

Ran a quick test, letting a Rocket Trooper shoot me as a Mangaurd and Phoenix Vanguard. Both had full fitness (825 shields) and both took the same damage. Also tested whether shieldgate was operating by getting hit twice in row, Phoenix Vanguard's shieldgate appears to be working fine.

Video Link. Interesting bits are around 2:30 and 5:55. Video has no editing since I mostly did it for my own curiousity and recorded it because I could. It also makes it easy to see the difficulty and builds were the same and that no consumables/equipment were used.

EDIT: :ph34r:'d. By almost 15 minutes. That's what I get for leaving a window open and doing other things...


lol, sorry. but more proof is better, so thanks for your video as well.

#102
Amano Kazumi
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 07:19

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Excellent work. I did feel more squishy after promoting than from my maxed health Ex-Cerberus, but I chalked it up to the latter evolutions being bugged after reading this thread. Regardless of this, I still feel the melee build is still the better way for this character in specific, or at least the last evolution.

#103
EVILFLUFFMONSTER
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 07:22

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So, Phanguards are proven to have the same values as Manguards. Case closed. I felt pretty squishy as one, but only perhaps because I spent more time out of cover and played more offensively.

#104
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Posté 04 juin 2012 - 07:26

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K1LL STREAK wrote...

So, Phanguards are proven to have the same values as Manguards. Case closed. I felt pretty squishy as one, but only perhaps because I spent more time out of cover and played more offensively.


I think the reason they feel more squishy is that Smash has such a long animation and provides no invuln frames like Nova. If BW added invulnerability frames to Smash, it would even out the two classes rather well.

#105
mybudgee
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 07:31

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This sucks..

#106
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Posté 04 juin 2012 - 07:33

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mybudgee wrote...

This sucks..


What sucks, that they are squishy or that they are not bugged?

#107
Karstedt
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 07:38

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It's not the dying that makes me think something is bugged... it's the frequency of near instant death. Things will be working as expected... and suddenly, bang, dead. It happens several times per match to me, and always immediately after activating something.

Two or three enemies, shields at half, charge, full sihelds, shield and health bar then drain completely in about half a second. DED

Taking fire, run for cover, shields go down, survival pack, full shields and health, shields and health drain about half a second later. DED

Full shields and heath, run up and smash, shields and health drain in about half a second. DED.

#108
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Posté 04 juin 2012 - 07:50

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Karstedt wrote...

It's not the dying that makes me think something is bugged... it's the frequency of near instant death. Things will be working as expected... and suddenly, bang, dead. It happens several times per match to me, and always immediately after activating something.

Two or three enemies, shields at half, charge, full sihelds, shield and health bar then drain completely in about half a second. DED

Taking fire, run for cover, shields go down, survival pack, full shields and health, shields and health drain about half a second later. DED

Full shields and heath, run up and smash, shields and health drain in about half a second. DED.


Sounds like lag.

#109
Longhammer808
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 07:51

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I wish I had a video to share, but all I have is anecdotal footage from my mind. Took my brand-new Level 20 Cerberus Adept (fitness max 825/825) out against the Geth on Silver the other day. I went down faster than (insert tasteless example about something that goes down fast here).

All I can say is that the rate at which my defenses evaporated against relatively light Geth fire seemed way too quick. My Cerberus crew is remaining on the bench until someone clears this up.

#110
Killahead
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 07:59

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death_for_sale wrote...

I see your video and raise with one showing maxed Fitness on both the Human Vanguard/Phoenix Vanguard vs. a Geth Rocket.

I do not see any difference on either character after taking the shot. Additionally, this is a single rocket that is not affected by RNG.

youtu.be/wTI4Rjrn1Hg


Thanks for putting an end to this myth.

#111
Relix28
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 08:08

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death_for_sale wrote...

K1LL STREAK wrote...

So, Phanguards are proven to have the same values as Manguards. Case closed. I felt pretty squishy as one, but only perhaps because I spent more time out of cover and played more offensively.


I think the reason they feel more squishy is that Smash has such a long animation and provides no invuln frames like Nova. If BW added invulnerability frames to Smash, it would even out the two classes rather well.


This. And the fact that every time you successfully charge, you get a 4 second 50% damage reduction bonus. Wich means, that evey time you are using Smahs or Lash istead of Charge, you are much squishier, because you don't have the dr bonus. Compare it to the Novaguard, that charges every 3-4 seconds (a perma 50% dr bonus), and it's no wonder people are finding the Phoenix classes shuishy. But it's not becuase their fitness tree is bugged, but because of said playstyle (constant chagre fest vs. mixing up smash, lash and charge a.k.a. perma damage reduction vs. not so much damage reduction).

Also, I'd like to thank you and Ichthys163 both for making proper comparison vids. It's good to know, that there are still people on this forum, capable of logical thinking, and not mindlessly jumping on bandwagons.

#112
Elite3141
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 08:10

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There are times when the Phoenix's shield gate doesn't work. It works most of the time, but not 100% of the time. This is while hosting, too.

#113
UKStory135
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 08:22

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I was always under the assumption that rockets, ravager shots, and the Geth Primes rail gun worked in three round bursts. The first burst stripped your shields, the second passed the shield gate, and the third one took down you health. If that is true, then rocket shot vids don't prove much.

I never died from rocket fire using the PA or PV, what got me was the little guy fire, which stripped sheilds and health quickly. I ironically found that I survived better when I attacked brutes and ravagers than I did when I attacked cannibals and marauders.

#114
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Posté 04 juin 2012 - 08:25

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Longhammer808 wrote...

I wish I had a video to share, but all I have is anecdotal footage from my mind. Took my brand-new Level 20 Cerberus Adept (fitness max 825/825) out against the Geth on Silver the other day. I went down faster than (insert tasteless example about something that goes down fast here).

All I can say is that the rate at which my defenses evaporated against relatively light Geth fire seemed way too quick. My Cerberus crew is remaining on the bench until someone clears this up.


The problem with anecdotal footage is that ir is entirely subjective. It depends on situational RNG, random benefits from either power or cover based DR, lag, and player perception. I feel your pain, but there is clear evidence that there is no difference between the Fitness of either character.

Relix states it best in that Novaguards seem less squishy due to charge DR and the fact that they charge a lot more. This may require some form of balance on the Pheonix characters, but there is no actual bug.

#115
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Posté 04 juin 2012 - 08:29

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UKStory135 wrote...

I was always under the assumption that rockets, ravager shots, and the Geth Primes rail gun worked in three round bursts. The first burst stripped your shields, the second passed the shield gate, and the third one took down you health. If that is true, then rocket shot vids don't prove much.

I never died from rocket fire using the PA or PV, what got me was the little guy fire, which stripped sheilds and health quickly. I ironically found that I survived better when I attacked brutes and ravagers than I did when I attacked cannibals and marauders.


They prove that with no innate DR or other benefits active a known quantity of damage that is not affected by RNG can be measured. If you are not using an exact known quantity of damage, then your results are flawed. Additionally, if you do not test without DR involved, results are inaccurate. It has been shown now that with a known amount of damage, the same amount of barrier will be lost on both classes, disproving the OP's contention that Fitness is bugged.

#116
Immortal Strife
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 08:29

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Myth busted. Everyone go play the game and get better. It's not the character's fault when you die.

#117
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Posté 04 juin 2012 - 09:04

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Due to another post regarding the supposed bug on the adepts instead of vanguards, I did a video for that as well. I might as well link it here also, in case it gets mentioned.

youtu.be/4E9m3p40Ces

It is still uploading so give it a bit if it doesn't show up.

#118
Shampoohorn
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 09:06

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Good job @Ichthys163 and @death_for_sale

#119
BloodClaw95
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 09:12

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Good job debunking this supposed bug. :)

#120
ryanshowseason3
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 10:13

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Bronze cerberus. Get a trooper to melee at full shields. Charge out of cooldown with cooldown = 6 seconds to ensure that the DR addition wasn't present. No use of ops pack. Repeat for both human vanguard and cerb vanguard with same fitness spec.

Tried it. Didn't see any difference. But I don't have video equipment for my xbox so a lot of good the test does to prove to anyone else. The important part though is I tried it for MYSELF instead of listening to whatever trolls or ill guided flawed logic tests others are performing.

As long as I know the answer for myself anyone else can believe what they will. :whistle:

Modifié par ryanshowseason3, 04 juin 2012 - 10:28 .

#121
mase1771
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 11:01

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thanks for debunking this everyone and relix for schooling me on biotic charge:D

#122
MDK236
Posté 05 juin 2012 - 02:34

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What about comparing a full fitness Phoenix adept/vanguard and compare those findings against another Phoenix set that has no points in fitness? Instead of against different adept/vanguard class...

#123
ryanshowseason3
Posté 05 juin 2012 - 01:20

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MDK236 wrote...

What about comparing a full fitness Phoenix adept/vanguard and compare those findings against another Phoenix set that has no points in fitness? Instead of against different adept/vanguard class...


A good test as well. I don't have another to test it with yet though, and not enough respec cards to do it with my current phoenix.

#124
Karstedt
Posté 05 juin 2012 - 01:28

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death_for_sale wrote...

Karstedt wrote...

It's not the dying that makes me think something is bugged... it's the frequency of near instant death. Things will be working as expected... and suddenly, bang, dead. It happens several times per match to me, and always immediately after activating something.

Two or three enemies, shields at half, charge, full sihelds, shield and health bar then drain completely in about half a second. DED

Taking fire, run for cover, shields go down, survival pack, full shields and health, shields and health drain about half a second later. DED

Full shields and heath, run up and smash, shields and health drain in about half a second. DED.


Sounds like lag.


I thought that at first too. But it happens in pretty much every game, even when nothing else seems to be lagging.

#125
Rahabzu
Posté 05 juin 2012 - 01:37

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I was under the impression that phoenix vanguards had more shields when maxed fitness than normal human vanguards? If it disproves the theory why are both taking the same amount of damage from the rocket?
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