105 réponses à ce sujet

[Phil5000]

I made a post about how no matter what you do to prepare for the landsmeet it ends up being settled by a fight, which makes everything you did to prepare for it totally pointless, including persuading Alistair and the queen to marry.

It reminded me of NWN 2 as well.

Just out of interest though I got all but one of the nobles on my side.

[Taritu]

NWN2 made more sense. Trial by combat in a trial is fairly well established. But the Banorn/landsmeet is based on the medieval estates, as best I can tell, and while violence did break out, votes didn't get overturned through duels.

Bear in mind that if you lose the vote (I did first time, though it looked even to me) then fight when Loghain tries to arrest and execute you, and win that fight, you've essentially launched a coup and won.  Frankly, even if you executed both Anora and Loghain (and you should, I was furious at Alistair for letting her live and would have killed her myself given the option), the civil war is not going to stop because you and a bunch of allies launched a coup.  The civil war continuing is inevitable, though with Loghain dead and Anora imprisoned, you'll probably win.  Except you don't have time for that, with the Darkspawn bearing down.

But I was under no illusion: Loghain had launched a coup, then I had launched a counter-coup against him and won because my side had better fighters.

Modifié par Taritu, 14 décembre 2009 - 09:19 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

menasure wrote...
if only because you have no way to simply give yourself up and unite Ferelden in a more logical way: by giving yourself up to Loghain because he is already in charge, he has armies of his own and if there is a way to unite those with your own armies then you have accomplished what matters the most for a grey warden: a real fighting chance against the blight.

We need to add that option to the tavern in Loithering
PC: "I surrender. Take me to Loghain!"

*we cut to a cutscence of the PC being executed for treason. Cue reaload screen*

yeah..that would be fun

[SeanMurphy2]

If you have recruited the four armies you have more leverage at the end of the game. Plus Eamon is quite powerful.

I wonder if the Landsmeet could have had a more political structure where you talk about the future of the Kingdom. And make concessions and demands to Loghain. Then ultimately come to some kind of agreement.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:00 .

[ozsras]

Even if you also happen to be the Teryn of Highever, traveling
with King Maric's only living heir, and the two of you
are the ONLY grey wardens in a country in the middle of a blight - you
are both put to death for picking a pocket?  Not only does that ignore
how you've been roleplaying, it just doesn't make any sense. 

In my whole play through with my mad murderous mage, no one ever tried
to exact justice on me in any way.  But I see now that was because my
mad murderous mage didn't pick any pockets.....  ???

You know I never understood why you can even go to Denirum before the landsmeet. I mean, supposedly you are an outlaw. But you only get attacked twice, Zev obviously and the bounty hunters in the Frostback Mountains. Oh and there is that Grey Warden poster but unless you go to the Pearl or do the Crows Trials you won't see them at all. You show up strolling around the Denirum marketplace and...nothing. No screams of traitor (except for that one blonde knight but even then if you have a high enough persude you can talk him out of attacking you) or bloodshed...nothing. I was disappointed, I wanted more "omg you killed the King!" or "Lohgain said to get the Warden!".

I just didn't feel like I was being hunted. Of course Lohgain had a civil war braking out so he was a bit sidetracked but still... It felt like... they said I was being hunted but except for two interactions I really wasn't being hunted. Or at least it felt like that to me.

Modifié par ozsras, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:08 .

[menasure]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

menasure wrote...
if only because you have no way to simply give yourself up and unite Ferelden in a more logical way: by giving yourself up to Loghain because he is already in charge, he has armies of his own and if there is a way to unite those with your own armies then you have accomplished what matters the most for a grey warden: a real fighting chance against the blight.

We need to add that option to the tavern in Loithering
PC: "I surrender. Take me to Loghain!"

*we cut to a cutscence of the PC being executed for treason. Cue reaload screen*

yeah..that would be fun

haha i know what you mean ... of course you would be making a gamble but why on earth does Loghain even bother to see 2 rookie grey wardens as a threat when there are no others left in the whole of Ferelden? his own positions seems to be comfortably strong like the whole landsmeet proves. he has already practically won and at that point the only reason why you are seen as a threat by him is because you might prepare to stage a coup against him, which you are clearly not doing if you voluntarily meet him...
edit: of course at that stage in Lothering you are only guessing what is happening because you have no clue about the bigger picture. at best you know that the grey wardens have been outlawed because they supposedly betrayed the king and you had to hear from morrigan -of all folks- that Loghain retreated his armies when you lit the pyre instead of attacking like the plan dictated.
you also know about betrayal by Howe but only if you played the human noble origin and you would want revenge on Howe if possible but even then it is not really clear how the whole puzzle fits together.

Modifié par menasure, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:33 .

[menasure]

ozsras wrote...

Even if you also happen to be the Teryn of Highever, traveling
with King Maric's only living heir, and the two of you
are the ONLY grey wardens in a country in the middle of a blight - you
are both put to death for picking a pocket?  Not only does that ignore
how you've been roleplaying, it just doesn't make any sense. 

In my whole play through with my mad murderous mage, no one ever tried
to exact justice on me in any way.  But I see now that was because my
mad murderous mage didn't pick any pockets.....  ???

You know I never understood why you can even go to Denirum before the landsmeet. I mean, supposedly you are an outlaw. But you only get attacked twice, Zev obviously and the bounty hunters in the Frostback Mountains. Oh and there is that Grey Warden poster but unless you go to the Pearl or do the Crows Trials you won't see them at all. You show up strolling around the Denirum marketplace and...nothing. No screams of traitor (except for that one blonde knight but even then if you have a high enough persude you can talk him out of attacking you) or bloodshed...nothing. I was disappointed, I wanted more "omg you killed the King!" or "Lohgain said to get the Warden!".

I just didn't feel like I was being hunted. Of course Lohgain had a civil war braking out so he was a bit sidetracked but still... It felt like... they said I was being hunted but except for two interactions I really wasn't being hunted. Or at least it felt like that to me.

according to the explanation in game the good troops are caught up in the civil war (the bannorn thing) and you get to meet that sergeant who is complaining about the incompetence of his new men ... so he does not bother and even asks for your help because he can not even manage to keep the crime of the city under control.
i is definitely a bit far stretched though

[T-Kay]

ozsras wrote...

Even if you also happen to be the Teryn of Highever, traveling
with King Maric's only living heir, and the two of you
are the ONLY grey wardens in a country in the middle of a blight - you
are both put to death for picking a pocket?  Not only does that ignore
how you've been roleplaying, it just doesn't make any sense. 

In my whole play through with my mad murderous mage, no one ever tried
to exact justice on me in any way.  But I see now that was because my
mad murderous mage didn't pick any pockets.....  ???

You know I never understood why you can even go to Denirum before the landsmeet. I mean, supposedly you are an outlaw. But you only get attacked twice, Zev obviously and the bounty hunters in the Frostback Mountains. Oh and there is that Grey Warden poster but unless you go to the Pearl or do the Crows Trials you won't see them at all. You show up strolling around the Denirum marketplace and...nothing. No screams of traitor (except for that one blonde knight but even then if you have a high enough persude you can talk him out of attacking you) or bloodshed...nothing. I was disappointed, I wanted more "omg you killed the King!" or "Lohgain said to get the Warden!".

I just didn't feel like I was being hunted. Of course Lohgain had a civil war braking out so he was a bit sidetracked but still... It felt like... they said I was being hunted but except for two interactions I really wasn't being hunted. Or at least it felt like that to me.

The whole game lacks a sense of urgency and attachment to the task at hand. The fact you can walk around Denerim just adds to the endless list of shortcomings. I mean you can fight anywhere and there will be guards and people standing around like nothings going on. In fact you can even engage in a business deal with a shop while fighting.

Damn we need some Flaming Fist soldiers in there somewhere.

Modifié par T-Kay, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:12 .

[SeanMurphy2]

ozsras wrote...
You know I never understood why you can even go to Denirum before the landsmeet. I mean, supposedly you are an outlaw. But you only get attacked twice, Zev obviously and the bounty hunters in the Frostback Mountains. Oh and there is that Grey Warden poster but unless you go to the Pearl or do the Crows Trials you won't see them at all. You show up strolling around the Denirum marketplace and...nothing. No screams of traitor (except for that one blonde knight but even then if you have a high enough persude you can talk him out of attacking you) or bloodshed...nothing. I was disappointed, I wanted more "omg you killed the King!" or "Lohgain said to get the Warden!".

I just didn't feel like I was being hunted. Of course Lohgain had a civil war braking out so he was a bit sidetracked but still... It felt like... they said I was being hunted but except for two interactions I really wasn't being hunted. Or at least it felt like that to me.

I wonder if there could have been a more dynamic system.

Immediately after Ostager people are very hostile towards you. And you face regular attacks by Loghains troops if you even try to approach Denerim.

But then over time people become more disenchanted with Loghain. And you are treated as less of an outlaw.

[ozsras]

according to the explanation in game the good troops are caught up in
the civil war (the bannorn thing) and you get to meet that sergeant who
is complaining about the incompetence of his new men ... so he does not
bother and even asks for your help because he can not even manage to
keep the crime of the city under control.
i is definitely a bit far stretched though

Well, but in Denirum? Really? I mean, Lohgain has been there the whole time and he didn't hear of the Warden's presence? No one said a word? I would think Arl Howe would be keeping a close eye on his new residence. And you know that's another thing, I would have liked to have had more random attacks I mean you are traveling through the Bannorn, what me and my crew didn't pass by any towns that had Lohgain's troops? We managed to sneak around them every single time? *sigh* I do love the game, I mean I've replayed it so much I know the dialogue backwards and forwards but somethings just bug me.

The whole game lacks a sense of urgency and attachment to the task at
hand. The fact you can walk around Denerim just adds to the endless
list of shortcomings. I mean you can fight anywhere and there will be
guards and people standing around like nothings going on. In fact you
can even engage in a business deal with a shop while fighting.

This. I feel the same way. I really wanted to feel that urgency of "oh holy crap I've got to gather an army, stop a civil war, kick Lohgain's ass and somehow I've got to do it all before the Archdemon eats us all for breakfast" feeling.

[SeanMurphy2]

I wonder if they should have structured the mid game differently.

Immediately after Ostager you are more of an outlaw being hunted by Loghain's soldiers and hated by the rest of the population. And the darkspawn have not yet advanced in numbers into Ferelden. The focus is on surviving and dealing with Loghain.

Then in the second half once you have dealt with Loghain,  the darkspawn threat becomes greater. The focus is on acquiring the treaties. And you are fighting mainly darkspawn.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:37 .

[T-Kay]

ozsras wrote...

according to the explanation in game the good troops are caught up in
the civil war (the bannorn thing) and you get to meet that sergeant who
is complaining about the incompetence of his new men ... so he does not
bother and even asks for your help because he can not even manage to
keep the crime of the city under control.
i is definitely a bit far stretched though

Well, but in Denirum? Really? I mean, Lohgain has been there the whole time and he didn't hear of the Warden's presence? No one said a word? I would think Arl Howe would be keeping a close eye on his new residence. And you know that's another thing, I would have liked to have had more random attacks I mean you are traveling through the Bannorn, what me and my crew didn't pass by any towns that had Lohgain's troops? We managed to sneak around them every single time? *sigh* I do love the game, I mean I've replayed it so much I know the dialogue backwards and forwards but somethings just bug me.

The whole game lacks a sense of urgency and attachment to the task at
hand. The fact you can walk around Denerim just adds to the endless
list of shortcomings. I mean you can fight anywhere and there will be
guards and people standing around like nothings going on. In fact you
can even engage in a business deal with a shop while fighting.

This. I feel the same way. I really wanted to feel that urgency of "oh holy crap I've got to gather an army, stop a civil war, kick Lohgain's ass and somehow I've got to do it all before the Archdemon eats us all for breakfast" feeling.

Yeah, everyone is so "matter of fact" about it. There's no people screaming and fleeing, no chaos, terror or hysteria. Everyone just goes about their business as usual. Even Lothering, where the Darkspawn threat is imminent, lacks true fear and desparation. I would have expected you to be able to travel to lands and villages that had been attacked by Darkspawn and have been abandoned, burned and destroyed. Something like that. After you leave Ostagar, connection to the the blight is gone.
And the dreams, seriously. You dream about a demon and the upcoming blight and you can respond matter of fact about it.
The only one who sees the urgency is Sten. Although that only goes skindeep.
Sten: Don't we have a Blight to stop? Stop this idle banter.
PC: Yeah, but I want to give you this painting to raise your approval.
Sten: That's really nice thanks! You want to talk some more?

[ozsras]

SeanMurphy2 wrote...

I wonder if they should have structured the mid game differently.

Immediately after Ostager you are more of an outlaw being hunted by Loghain's soldiers and hated by the rest of the population. And the darkspawn have not yet advanced in numbers into Ferelden. The focus is on surviving and dealing with Loghain.

Then in the second half once you have dealt with Loghain,  the darkspawn threat becomes greater. The focus is on acquiring the treaties. And you are fighting mainly darkspawn.

I did really love the black cloud that grows bigger (representing the darkspawn) over your map as you continue through your journeys. So yeah, I think your idea has merit. Or just have the Denirum part locked until you complete the treaties and the Redcliff quests. It's the reason why I love the fact that Lothering fell. That felt *real*. The darkspawn really were right behind you and you had little time to laze about doing piddly sidequests. (not that I minded the sidequests, I'm all for more XP. )

Yeah, everyone is so "matter of fact" about it. There's no people
screaming and fleeing, no chaos, terror or hysteria. Everyone just goes
about their business as usual. Even Lothering, where the Darkspawn
threat is imminent, lacks true fear and desparation. I would have
expected you to be able to travel to lands and villages that had been
attacked by Darkspawn and have been abandoned, burned and destroyed.
Something like that. After you leave Ostagar, connection to the the
blight is gone.
And the dreams, seriously. You dream about a demon and the upcoming blight and you can respond matter of fact about it.
The only one who sees the urgency is Sten. Although that only goes skindeep.
Sten: Don't we have a Blight to stop? Stop this idle banter.
PC: Yeah, but I want to give you this painting to raise your approval.
Sten: That's really nice thanks! You want to talk some more?

Ha!
Sten: I will only stop for cookies.
I can't blame him. I would stop killing darkspawn for some cookies. Not for a high dragon though.

Everyone in Lothering was just...angry. Masses of people running past me as I'm trying to collect elfroot and pick locks would have been nice. The dreams, oh man. What you had like, two? And that right there is a shame because I was hoping that every time you completed a Treaty you would dream about the Archdemon. I was fascinated with the connection between the Warden's and the Archdemon. However seeing Alistair *so freaked out* was priceless. I was all "oooh a Archdemon dream!!" and he's "somebody hold me I just had a Archdemon dream!! *girlish scream*". Heh.

Modifié par ozsras, 14 décembre 2009 - 12:05 .

[Elvhen Veluthil]

SeanMurphy2 wrote...

I wonder if they should have structured the mid game differently.

Immediately after Ostager you are more of an outlaw being hunted by Loghain's soldiers and hated by the rest of the population. And the darkspawn have not yet advanced in numbers into Ferelden. The focus is on surviving and dealing with Loghain.

Then in the second half once you have dealt with Loghain,  the darkspawn threat becomes greater. The focus is on acquiring the treaties. And you are fighting mainly darkspawn.

The problem for me was that neither of them managed to became a villain I cared about. Regarding Loghain, I didn't saw him as a opponent at all, even during Landsmeet (that may be my view though, I didn't liked and cared about him from the book).

The Archdemon case was even worst, first time I fight such an faceless villain, who gets involved only in two cutscenes. This is my main problem with the game, it left me without a villain.

[SeanMurphy2]

I think it would be good to be able to return to Lothering after the Darkspawn attack. So you get a before and after perspective on the destruction.

Also maybe some small areas in south Ferelden or the wilds. Where later in the game you begin to see some black taint on the land and people gradually turned into ghouls.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 14 décembre 2009 - 12:26 .

[T-Kay]

SeanMurphy2 wrote...

I think it would be good to be able to return to Lothering after the Darkspawn attack. So you get a before and after perspective on the destruction.

Also maybe some small areas in south Ferelden. Where later in the game you begin to see some black taint on the land and people turned into ghouls.

Exactly. The whole Blight thing is so distant in this game. Sure you fight some Darkspawn here and there (even in the Circle Tower!), but you never see the results of their actions. It would have been nice for the main character to have an option to save the village of Lothering or leave it to be destroyed and have dealings with, say, a mercenary band that took over. Or something like that.

[SeanMurphy2]

I think the game has an ambitious mid game structure with a lot of things going on.



- You are meant to be an outlaw hunted by Loghain

- There is the mystery of why Loghain retreated

- There is a civil war going on

- The darkspawn are advancing into the country

- There are problems unrelated to the Blight happening in Circle Tower, Redcliffe, Orzammer and Brecillian forest.

[Xandurpein]

T-Kay wrote...

SeanMurphy2 wrote...

I think it would be good to be able to return to Lothering after the Darkspawn attack. So you get a before and after perspective on the destruction.

Also maybe some small areas in south Ferelden. Where later in the game you begin to see some black taint on the land and people turned into ghouls.

Exactly. The whole Blight thing is so distant in this game. Sure you fight some Darkspawn here and there (even in the Circle Tower!), but you never see the results of their actions. It would have been nice for the main character to have an option to save the village of Lothering or leave it to be destroyed and have dealings with, say, a mercenary band that took over. Or something like that.

This basically the same thing that happened in BG2. Do you run to help Imoen the minute you have the gold for the ship to the mage prison or do you stay and do all the sidequests? I really don't think there is anyway developers can do this to please everyone. A lot of people are completionists. They want to find every side quest in the game and find every item there is. Others want to follow the main story and hurry. Impose some sort of timelimit on the chapters before the Landsmeet and you can bet people will whine about that instead.

Games like this will always have an "Edge of the World" paradox. One of the major functions of sidequests are there just to give you a sense of a living world outside the marked path of the main adventure. It helps to create an illussion of a boundless world. At the same time we are always compelled to explore every part of the game until we reach the boundary and the destroy the illusion we liked so much.

By the way, if you think that the darkspawn and the Blight is something distant and impersonal, I wonder what you did during the Dead Trenches. That was about as personal I want to get with the Blight to be honest...

[Lotion Soronarr]

SeanMurphy2 wrote...

I wonder if they should have structured the mid game differently.

Immediately after Ostager you are more of an outlaw being hunted by Loghain's soldiers and hated by the rest of the population. And the darkspawn have not yet advanced in numbers into Ferelden. The focus is on surviving and dealing with Loghain.

Then in the second half once you have dealt with Loghain,  the darkspawn threat becomes greater. The focus is on acquiring the treaties. And you are fighting mainly darkspawn.

Hm...some creative modding could fix that.

For example:
Put a guard in Denerim, at the very entracne. He stopps htePC and tak to him. The Pc can try to pass a very hard persuade to get past him. If he fails, the guard raises an alarm and you get seasoned soldiers thrown at you.

The number of soldiers decreases as you complete more treaties and make game progress.

If you manage to defeat that group, the next time you enter Denerim, you'll be greeted by a even bigger group.

Add some random encounters with Loghains troops - more frequent durin early game.

[ozsras]

Xandurpein wrote...

T-Kay wrote...

SeanMurphy2 wrote...

I think it would be good to be able to return to Lothering after the Darkspawn attack. So you get a before and after perspective on the destruction.

Also maybe some small areas in south Ferelden. Where later in the game you begin to see some black taint on the land and people turned into ghouls.

Exactly. The whole Blight thing is so distant in this game. Sure you fight some Darkspawn here and there (even in the Circle Tower!), but you never see the results of their actions. It would have been nice for the main character to have an option to save the village of Lothering or leave it to be destroyed and have dealings with, say, a mercenary band that took over. Or something like that.

This basically the same thing that happened in BG2. Do you run to help Imoen the minute you have the gold for the ship to the mage prison or do you stay and do all the sidequests? I really don't think there is anyway developers can do this to please everyone. A lot of people are completionists. They want to find every side quest in the game and find every item there is. Others want to follow the main story and hurry. Impose some sort of timelimit on the chapters before the Landsmeet and you can bet people will whine about that instead.

Games like this will always have an "Edge of the World" paradox. One of the major functions of sidequests are there just to give you a sense of a living world outside the marked path of the main adventure. It helps to create an illussion of a boundless world. At the same time we are always compelled to explore every part of the game until we reach the boundary and the destroy the illusion we liked so much.

By the way, if you think that the darkspawn and the Blight is something distant and impersonal, I wonder what you did during the Dead Trenches. That was about as personal I want to get with the Blight to be honest...

I don't want to give the impression that I'm hating on the game because of this. I'm not, very few (one maybe two things) bug me about this game. I just felt that even with the cutscenes with Lohgain and Anora and having certain NPC's tell you that you are being hunted there was a distance, a separation if you will, with what was going on with Lohgain and what was going on with me and my group. In my first playthrough I saved Redcliff for last thinking it was better to take on Lohgain with a gathered army at my back. More support to fall back on in case I blew it in regards to the nobles. Plus I didn't know how much help the Arl would be if he were sick. So I felt as if what was going on with Lohgain and the Civil War was a complete and separate story.

I guess I'm a completionist in the fact that I will do every single sidequest but that is saved for my second playthrough when I've gotten used to the world and how things work. I love sidequests if only because I'm a bloodthirsty *****. XD

As for the Dead Trenches... I *loved* it. It was so sick and twisted and so AWESOME. Now that was really fantastic! Horribly wrong and I really did not want to eat after going through it but awesome none the less.

[fkirenicus]

Elvhen Veluthil wrote...

This is my main problem with the game, it left me without a villain.

I would've guessed Arl Howe could meet that description...

Modifié par fkirenicus, 14 décembre 2009 - 02:52 .

[fkirenicus]

ozsras wrote...

As for the Dead Trenches... I *loved* it. It was so sick and twisted and so AWESOME. Now that was really fantastic! Horribly wrong and I really did not want to eat after going through it but awesome none the less.

Agree. The Deep Roads as a whole and the Fade prison are the best parts of the game, IMO.
The end - everything after the Alienage - is not so funny.

[ozsras]

While I did love going through the Fade the first couple of times after about the eighth playthrough I found it, well, a bit tedious. Running around as a golem is quite fun though - no matter how many times I've played through it.



Honestly I found Orzammar itself to be pretty great. But I love playing politics - and manipulations with cutthroat tactics along with politics? My kind of game. XD

[SeanMurphy2]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Hm...some creative modding could fix that.

For example:
Put a guard in Denerim, at the very entracne. He stopps htePC and tak to him. The Pc can try to pass a very hard persuade to get past him. If he fails, the guard raises an alarm and you get seasoned soldiers thrown at you.

The number of soldiers decreases as you complete more treaties and make game progress.

If you manage to defeat that group, the next time you enter Denerim, you'll be greeted by a even bigger group.

Add some random encounters with Loghains troops - more frequent durin early game.

I expected Denerim would be like that. I remember feeling apprehension and foreboding, expecting that I would be stopped at the gates or need to find a way to sneak in.

They could have redone the Market area as more of a rundown slum area where you can be unnoticed. And occasionally the city guard would do sweeps of the area.

Maybe a series of faction sidequests which better allow you to hide out in Denerim. I would have liked there to be more areas, communities and conflicts in Denerim. And try to make the city feel alive with lots of things going on.

Some chantry quests could deal with issues of religion. The port district could have had travellers from other nations. The Elf alienage could open up earlier.

[kaimanaMM]

I agree with SeanMurphy2 and Ozsras, espeically in the fact that Denerim and the build up to Denerim could have been done differently / better.



Loghain seems to be the most immediate threat after Ostagar. The darkspwn are out there but their threat seems to be pretty far off and while I liked the random darkspawn attacks when traveling, I would have liked to see Loghain himself setting up more stumbling blocks for me in his wake. He really only makes feeble attempts to stop my advancement. I understand he has his own problems to deal with and the darkspawn are bearing down on us all, but Loghain doesn't strike me as the type of person to leave a loose end like Alistair and myself (not only being Grey Wardens but also Maric's heir) flapping out there in the wind.



Not only that, but when you show up in Denerim people know who you are, Captain Skarlon (if I remember right) says your name and likeness have been circulated amongst the people and I would assume Loghain's version of the 'truth' as well. Yet, you can walk around Denerim as free as a bird. Maybe they meant us to feel that Loghain's concentration was elsewhere? Maybe we were supposed to think that the people had stopped believing Loghain's lies? Maybe no one really cared? It all just felt out of place in Denerim.



I loved the Dead Trenches (unfortunately I think I'm in the minority on that one) but not so much the Fade. I liked the Fade ... the first time through. I think the idea / concept is a good one, but after one or two times through it just becomes tedious to get all the fade shape shifting forms and travel back and forth to go through this patch of fire or unlock that massive door or go through that mouse hole or try and remember where that spirit door was.



But now I've sidetracked us.