29 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

I don't know if this is the correct section for this thread, but there isn't a DA3 section, so if I'm asked to move this, I will, but until then I'm going to go with the flow here.

I would like to send this request to Bioware and EA, and I'm posting it here to see how other fans on the forums think of the same subject.

So here is my request. I know we live in a world of online gaming and everyone uses the internet, making them capable of interacting with anyone throughout the world at any given time. This in turn has given the rise of DLC's. I'm not requesting an end to DLCs, but rather an end to games that need constant updates and patches via internet connection on the day or week of its release.

When Dragon Age 2 came out, it had more bugs than the demo did, and most were resolved by the end of the first week, for those who had xbox live, whether a silver account or gold. But why can't a game be complete and gone through the beta testing and bug patching before the release? Or why is there such a thing as DLCs that are released the same day the game is? Avatar clothes, I can live with. Storylines that were scrapped in development but added after given enough time and gamer feedback, I'm cool with.

But why are more and more gaming companies feeling the need to release incomplete games, or games so full of bugs that it requires an internet connection to fix? If I bought Jade Empire (which I did) and all the bugs took away from my enjoyment, or if I had to spend a great deal of money after purchasing the game to add more to the story, I'd want to return it, which I didn't. I still have it. It's a fun game.

So ultimately, my long-winded request is, for Dragon Age III, please give it the development time, beta testing, patching, and all that other stuff involved in game development before its release date, so those who don't have internet can enjoy a full gaming experience without being forced to get internet for their consoles. It's actually the only reason I got an xbox live account myself, and it aggravated me.

So please?  

[Get Magna Carter]

I will add that not all consoles are connected to the internet (I believe I read somewhere that between 20 and 30% have not been connected) - [The reason I have not been able to register my Mass Effect 3 is that I don't have an internet connection for my X360] - so there should be no assumption that it is okay to release a buggy/incomplete game and patch it/finish it later.
Get it right before release - most gamers would rather wait

[King Cousland]

Agree with the OP completely, as well as Get Magna Carter. It doesn't even bother that the game would be delayed a little, and I'd be satisfied if they just fixed major bugs and worked on the littler ones later, but releasing first-day DLC when the game is bug-infested just doesn't earn any good will among fans...

[MichaelStuart]

Well the longer they wait to release something, the longer they go without getting paid.
I don't really mind games that have bugs as long as it is playable, which Dragon age 2 was. (one bug I found funny was when a character was kill than revived, the game would treat the character as out of combat and so fully heal them every second. Still took me ages to kill a enemy)
As for day one dlc, Most are just a cash garb and wont stop happening, until people stop buying it.
For the 30% who don't have the internet, I am sorry to say that its only going to get worse.

[BioFan (Official)]

dlc that isn't day 1 would be nice, but i'm impartial either way

Modifié par Ericander77, 03 juin 2012 - 10:18 .

[dragonflight288]

So wouldn't it make sense that they would want the biggest payoff possible, by having as little bugs as possible before releasing it, thereby having a better game?

I know day one dlc's won't go away. But if the content is finished, why make gamers pay extra for it when it's ready the same day as the game is?

My request is simply make sure that the game has as few bugs as possible before releasing it, and if there's extra content that couldn't be finished by the time the game was, that may possibly take away from the story, at least wait until that's done. Take Mark of the Assassin or Legacy for example. Great DLCs which I love. They don't really add to the story on the rise of the champion of Kirkwall and the explosion at the end, so them not being there on release day didn't hurt a thing.

And Bioware had amble time to take gamer feedback into consideration for those DLCs, and was able to improve on what was already there. I'm cool with that.

I just want game companies to release games that are complete, the loose ends largely tied up, the story complete. Bioware's reputation, well, before Mass Effect 3 and DA2, has always been about the ability to tell a story with strong supporting characters and a protagonist we can shape. I love the characters almost as much as I love the story in many cases. But when an ending needs to be expanded on, or DLC has to be added to answer question, that in and of itself implies that the company released an incomplete product and expected $50-$60 for it.

I'm merely requesting that DA3 takes all the time needed to make it a high quality game, complete in its own story (I know Dragon Age is the story of Thedas, so if we have a new protagonist, he needs his own beginning, middle, and end to his/her own personal story,) with as little bugs as possible, before it releases to the public.

If it takes an extra month, fine. If it takes an extra six months, fine. If it takes an extra year, I'm cool with that. I don't want a haphazard, rushed product. If they can do that within a certain time frame and budget and can make improvements on a complete story, all ready by the original release date, I'm also cool with that. I just want quality is all.

For the 30% who don't have the internet, I am sorry to say that its only going to get worse.

Unfortunately that's a horrid truth. I had to get xbox live because I was sick of the bugs and the fact that DLCs added to the story and I could never experience it myself, and I don't see gaming companies doing anything to stop it because DLCs are profitable. But we as gamers can at least expect a full story without the need for DLCs, right?

[Reznore57]

Dragon Age Origin free?Just dreaming i guess...
I hope it won't go as far as ME3 , origin+1 day dlc +multiplayer+ having companions text you thru Ipad (or whatever...)+I guess we will have some item thru facebook poll...+ lore coming thru tweeter...
I guess i'm a bit old fashioned , but i stop all this social networking thing ("hey guys i'm a walking advertizement ").
I'm gonna buy da 3 anyway but i'm a bit tired of all this marketing things.

[dragonflight288]

...who said anything of Origin being free?

[Aldaris951]

people with internet but not for consoles = chipped pirated consoles. So no, You get to keep your bugs cus you pirate the game.

[dragonflight288]

And what of people without internet period? My older brother, studying to become a physical therapist, has an xbox 360, but his apartment has no internet access. And his personal budget can't afford internet either. He can go into a retail store and buy the game, but he'll have no access to any game updates and patches.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 04 juin 2012 - 02:10 .

[Urzon]

I played DA2 on the PS3, and i had nothing to connect my PS3 to get updates until late last year. I got to say, there is absolutely nothing more fun then the game crashing every 5-10min all throughout Act1. 

Got to love living out in BFE, where there is no type of highspeed internet providers. I was  finally able to get the updates when the family switched to a wifi. We had dial-up previously. So yes, i agree with the OP. The game creators need to make sure that the game is done before shipping.

Not all the potential buyers have the luxury of a highspeed connetion (or any type of connection at all).

[Midnightpain]

Unfortunately this is without a doubt in response to gaming piracy. People without internet are then forced to suffer similar to pirates who get updates later or even never. Solving this is impossible, UNLESS they decide to release the game on PC first then, console allowing a more refined version of the game for console at a later date. Again this wont happen when profits are to be made.

I really despise Dragonage II for being called a sequel. the "2" in dragonage should not be there its not a sequel, it should have been Dragonage champions or something. Misleading and deceitful and it seems Bioware turns more and more toward the darkside of gaming,... Bugs galore, true fans betrayed for mass marketing, systems simplified for the worst. And the death of RPG elements that made bioware where is today.

I love all the bioware games and have learnt to go in not expecting anything and see each game they make not as a sequel but as an independant game in itself.

Even though its an unrealistic dream, my dream is a bug free DA3 and for it to be a DA origins sequel

[Midnightpain]

Also maybe Mike Laidley needs to draw on some design ideas, and also use Brent Knowles as a mentor instead of trying so hard to be different. Please don't betray the DAO fans in DA3.

[Reznore57]

dragonflight288 wrote...

...who said anything of Origin being free?

I was not talking about Dragon Age origin the game ^^.
I was talking about "Origin" the Steam like thing.
I'm not fond of the idea that if i want to play a game , i need an extra something to make it work.
Besides I think the price doesn't change much if you buy it thru Origin or a material copy.
Which is wierd since a digital download is cheaper in itself.

[Jerrybnsn]

I like to add that future DLC shouldn't be game add ons, but they should make them as continuing adventures after the main game. What's the point of playing something that gives you all this loot that isn't as good as what you ended the game with. I'm looking at you Legacy.

[Get Magna Carter]

Aldaris951 wrote...

people with internet but not for consoles = chipped pirated consoles. So no, You get to keep your bugs cus you pirate the game.

I am one of a number of people on BSN with no internet at home and am posting on BSN through other means (I post from my parents home, others from public libraries, etc).
I do not even know how to chip consoles or pirate games and have no desire to do so

[dragonflight288]

Unfortunately this is without a doubt in response to gaming piracy. People without internet are then forced to suffer similar to pirates who get updates later or even never. Solving this is impossible, UNLESS they decide to release the game on PC first then, console allowing a more refined version of the game for console at a later date. Again this wont happen when profits are to be made.

Not necessarily. I mean, when DA2 came out, bought in a retail store and completely legal, it was so full of bugs that some gamers, as mentioned earlier, had the game constantly crash around them. That's what was released to the public, a buggy slip-shod game that had to be patched and updated before it could be playable by some people. And some people simply don't have an internet connection, and can't get the patches and updates.

Piracy is still an issue, and may even be related, but I kind of miss the old days when you could go into Software Etc, or Gamestop, buy a brand new game for $30-$40, get several hours of gameplay in without that many bugs that keep it from being played.

When there was no connecting consoles to the internet, games absolutely HAD to be bug-free and high quality, because developers simply couldn't patch them up or add more onto them after releasing it. What you bought was what you got, for better or for worse. Nowadays, game companies release games, patch them up within a week of release, and people without internet are kind of stuck with the bugs.

[Rorschachinstein]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Unfortunately this is without a doubt in response to gaming piracy. People without internet are then forced to suffer similar to pirates who get updates later or even never. Solving this is impossible, UNLESS they decide to release the game on PC first then, console allowing a more refined version of the game for console at a later date. Again this wont happen when profits are to be made.

Not necessarily. I mean, when DA2 came out, bought in a retail store and completely legal, it was so full of bugs that some gamers, as mentioned earlier, had the game constantly crash around them. That's what was released to the public, a buggy slip-shod game that had to be patched and updated before it could be playable by some people. And some people simply don't have an internet connection, and can't get the patches and updates.

Piracy is still an issue, and may even be related, but I kind of miss the old days when you could go into Software Etc, or Gamestop, buy a brand new game for $30-$40, get several hours of gameplay in without that many bugs that keep it from being played.

When there was no connecting consoles to the internet, games absolutely HAD to be bug-free and high quality, because developers simply couldn't patch them up or add more onto them after releasing it. What you bought was what you got, for better or for worse. Nowadays, game companies release games, patch them up within a week of release, and people without internet are kind of stuck with the bugs.

Guilty. I have Broadband with limited Bandwidth. Which means I can't connect to xbox live, and I can't download PC addons because it'll destroy my monthly use.

[TEWR]

I share your sentiments dragonflight288. The less bugs that are in a game/DLC/expansion, the better.

To this day, Awakening still has its fair share of bugs. The one that immediately springs to mind is how Velanna's Exile is almost impossible to trigger.

I mean, it'd be nice if Bioware would go back to patching DAO some more. They said when they announced work on DAII was done that they'd still be around to patch it. Well can't they go back and patch DAO too?

Especially if say Velanna is a companion in future games. I would be really irritated if -- should she return -- Bioware decided to make Velanna say or do things that only happen if her quest was done or not done.

[jbrand2002uk]

Well back in the Days of dial up interent us PC users had a fix of sorts you went to you local newsagents and in our case got the latest issue of PC Gamer and on the supplimental CD/DVD came the latest patches for most games since most xbox/ps3 magazines have a DVD included I'm supprised this hasnt been utilised as the patches came with a small piece of software attached to make sure you had a legitimate copy of the game you were patching

[dragonflight288]

@ Etheral,

I know. I spent over an hour just going back and forth in Amaranthine's map trying to trigger her side quest. It stinks that I triggered it my first playthrough, but I simply haven't been able to ever since for some odd reason.

[Vormaerin]

Are you just asking for the appearance of that mythical perfection that never existed? Bioware's games are not particularly buggy compared to most companies' releases.

The long and short of it is that, at some point, you have to release what you've got. Because you'll never have a bug free product that works flawlessly on every combination of systems. There never has been such a product.

If you are asking why there is an immediate patch in some cases, that's easy. The game has to be put in "content lockdown" well before release date so the master disc can be made and the whole physical distribution set up.

The Devs don't stop working during that time. Fixed that didn't make the July 1 cutoff could get finished during that gap.

Modifié par Vormaerin, 06 juin 2012 - 01:44 .

[dragonflight288]

If you are asking why there is an immediate patch in some cases, that's easy. The game has to be put in "content lockdown" well before release date so the master disc can be made and the whole physical distribution set up.

I'm not a game developer so I can't comment on that. But say you had no internet connection whatsoever. You go buy the game, DA2, brand new, from your local game retailer. You take it home and it crashes every 5-10 minutes. You find out you need xbox live to get patches to solve the problem, but you have no internet, so you can't. You are thereby stuck, with a buggy game that you can do absolutely nothing with.

Again, I don't know how much time has to be stopped for the production of disks and all the rest, but the situation I just highlighted, is exactly what happened to me, and other gamers who have commented.

I understand some things need to be patched irregardless of how long a game was in development. But if the bugs render a game unplayable the day it's released....

[M0RD3CA1 VII]

Midnightpain wrote...

I really despise Dragonage II for being called a sequel. the "2" in dragonage should not be there its not a sequel, it should have been Dragonage champions or something. Misleading and deceitful and it seems Bioware turns more and more toward the darkside of gaming,... Bugs galore, true fans betrayed for mass marketing, systems simplified for the worst. And the death of RPG elements that made bioware where is today.

I love all the bioware games and have learnt to go in not expecting anything and see each game they make not as a sequel but as an independant game in itself.

Even though its an unrealistic dream, my dream is a bug free DA3 and for it to be a DA origins sequel

1 ... 2 ... 3 ... doesn't always mean the story is in chronological order, about the same character, or even the same story (if we take a look at the Final Fantasy series). I would have preferred that the game had some sort of subtitle, but Dragon Age 2 works just fine.

Bugs were horrible for the game. I rented it at first and it was buggy but mine never crashed or anything, bought a cheap used copy not long ago, but now I have wifi so it's a nonissue.

Oh! And from what I hear, people have the same issues with Skyrim, so it's pretty much all the game developers lol

Modifié par M0RD3CA1 VII, 06 juin 2012 - 02:19 .

[jbrand2002uk]

Ah Midnightpain you must be cleverer than Einstein or had you forgotton the obvious reason why its called DA2 is because it was the 2nd game in the DragonAge Franchise and there is no legal or moral obligation that states BW cant do a total 180 from the original if they wish to call it DA2.

The honest answer is that it BW's franchise they own the rights so they can do whatever they want with it they're not required to seek fans permission so if the fans dont like it well then thats just too bad