76 réponses à ce sujet

[eroeru]

The movie was utter bollocks.

The start was ok, as in the trailer, and showed some good pacing and nice atmosphere of the desolate space-ship, and the interesting man. Then we get to find out he's not human, fine. Then the real action-narrative-narrative action pacing kicks in, and it turns terrible. Then it blatantly shows that the whole crew is comprised of utter idiots. No character is "opened up", besides the worthless scenes where it does happen unmetaphorically.

I could not believe a single second of the horribly idiotic crew in action. I kinda threw in the premise that ok, this is an alternate reality where scientists actually are that moronic, and through miracles survive past birth. And then it cleared up that their "creators" are even worse, and as they have the same dna, yet less muscles, I think it was to be expected that humans were ****-for-brains in this parallel universe.

NOTHING was believable, and NO ONE and NOTHING was to be cared for in this movie. It was utterly crap. End of line, hollywood.

[DukeOfNukes]

Who was an idiot exactly? I feel like we saw two different movies...because they were called Engineers, not "creators", and they had a ton of muscle.

Was a great movie...I'm excited for the sequel. Too many people are trying to make too much sense of every little thing...hows this for an explanation: David "poisoned" the other guy just to see what would happen. When she got "pregnant"...he wanted to preserve her for study. He was a robot...cold and calculating. He did what he did because: A) someone told him to. or he was curious to see what would happen.

[eroeru]

^^ I was referring to humans as having less muscles, yet the same amount of intelligence.

Really, picture yourself into those situations for a change. I would not actually believe any of them. So I don't know where to start really.

Pick a scene and I'll tell you why the characters were moronic in it.

[eroeru]

By the way, i loved Alien movies. They have artistic viability to them, and good pacing, and so forth. They're sorta playing around with comic-like premises yet sustain believability and seriousness.

But his was typical Hollywood where no character nor scene was of any intricacy. Moreso, the constantly ear-tearing one-note screeching orchestration was really sub par, and untasteful. Maybe this was one of the main points I found this film unbearable. Pointless, non-expressing and barbaric music makes me really mad at times.

[Daennikus]

Maybe, with today's general tendency to always try to outwit each other, this is exactly the kind of crew you would get. People try too hard instead of just doing their job. Eroeru I could actually picture someone like you among the crew of the Prometheus. A cynical man who knows he's smarter than everyone and refuses to co-operate with his team because they're all acting erratically.

No hard feelings!

[eroeru]

I don't think anything about my intelligence, especially when compared to others, but really, a biologist who pokes at a alien life form? A team of scientists that take off their suits at the first possibility? Hysterical attitudes, and running-around flame-torching mindlessly can be also noted.

And in the end, you get a huge "advanced" space ship that has to be taken down no matter what, why?... because someone says hysterically and in a state where they're clearly not thinking, that there's an advanced alien aboard who wants to destroy earth? Why? And then the captain decides that it's the rationally correct move to plummet into the giant air-craft of unknown materials, and die.

Bravo, hollywood, bravo.

[Daennikus]

Obadiah wrote...

Daennikus wrote...
...
David is not a doctor. He saw something living in her abdomen and just called it a pregnancy. It was a parasite implanted via intercourse with a contaminated subject. The black xenomorph goo didn't need human eggs or sperm to take form, it used whatever organic material it touched.
...

Didn't it have an umbilical cord? Can a parasite just get that? Hmm...maybe.  My interpretation is that is somehow corrupted her sterile reproductive system. I gotta go see this movie again. It wouldn't be the same without the repreductive system but, dunno for sure.

Yeah - no. There was nothing normal about this parasite. It was born in her womb, and so of course the umbillical cord comes from Shaw (I cringed when she ripped it out of her, there's no way that could have gone well in reality.) It even catches on when the parasite gets to the Engineer while it had planted its seed in that guy's stomach.

And technically, this wasn't an abortion because she didn't kill it. Oh no, maybe her Christian beliefs prevented her from doing that!

[slimgrin]

It was average imo. Character motivations weren't fleshed out enough. Halloway's suddenly moping and getting drunk in the space of a few hours. Vicker is just a b*tch and there isn't enough back story to justify her attitude toward the team. The captain and his co pilot's seemed giddy at the prospect of a kamikaze run. The most annoying thing was how no one really had a sense of wonder at their discovery, which was the most important of all time. And they were complete buffoons in the alien ship, touching black ooze, splitting up and getting lost, and trying to get friendly with a creepy white cobra thing with a vagina for a head, 'hey let's pet it!' You'd think there'd be some protocol they would follow.

Modifié par slimgrin, 09 juin 2012 - 09:49 .

[Obadiah]

eroeru wrote...
...
And in the end, you get a huge "advanced" space ship that has to be taken down no matter what, why?... because someone says hysterically and in a state where they're clearly not thinking, that there's an advanced alien aboard who wants to destroy earth? Why? And then the captain decides that it's the rationally correct move to plummet into the giant air-craft of unknown materials, and die.

Bravo, hollywood, bravo.

I believe the captain was there when team went looking for the two dead scientists and found the vials leaking the black goo (and the... er... "thing" jumped out of the guy's mouth). The captain also had the discussion with Shaw that he wouldn't let whatever was on this planet get back home. The Captain was looking on the video feed when the team entered the cargo area that was full of still thousands of sealed vials.

I think when the ship took off, he pretty much had to trust Shaw that it was headed to Earth and decided to stop it.

Modifié par Obadiah, 09 juin 2012 - 10:55 .

[eroeru]

^^ 1.) Why in hell's name would it head to Earth?
2.) And in that situation, did the captain really expect his ship to make a scratch on the huge "advanced" alien vessel, without knowing anything about it?

I certainly would not have, and the film was illlogical for making this move a planet-saver.

Also, it's 2093. You'd think they'd have some sort of auto-pilot.

[Obadiah]

eroeru wrote...
...
2.) And in that situation, did the captain really expect his ship to make a scratch on the huge "advanced" alien vessel, without knowing anything about it?
...

Not much choice given what was at stake.

eroeru wrote...
...
Also, it's 2093. You'd think they'd have some sort of auto-pilot.

Pretty sure auto-pilot would try to avoid collisions.

Modifié par Obadiah, 10 juin 2012 - 01:17 .

[KingJason13]

Fuel for the fire: The derelict Engineer spacecraft in Alien is on LV426... NOT LV223.

[Eurypterid]

KingJason13 wrote...

Fuel for the fire: The derelict Engineer spacecraft in Alien is on LV426... NOT LV223.

You're assuming this is the same planet as the one in Alien? I don't believe it's supposed to be at all.

@eroeru, while I agree with some of your points about the problems with the plot and character actions, I think you're stretching some of your criticism a bit as well. But yeah, I was shaking my head a number of times at some of the stupid actions some of these characters were taking.

Still though, I actually enjoyed the movie. Definitely not great or 'epic', but I thought it was entertaining.

[slimgrin]

Why did David contaminate Halloway? Did I miss something?

[Eurypterid]

slimgrin wrote...

Why did David contaminate Halloway? Did I miss something?

Yeah, as far as I could see there was no explanation for it. I assume he was either directed to by Wayland or that he just wanted to see what it would do to a human.

[Obadiah]

My understanding is that David is undergoing an awakening of sorts - a realization that he is "superior" to his creators (whom he initially admired), and that they will not give him respect or his freedom because he was built to serve them, and they view him as an object. See David's expression at Mr. Weyland's remark that David has no soul.

That's why before he poisons Holloway he asks, "how far would you go to achieve your goals?" At that point, he commits to killing them all to achieve his freedom.

Modifié par Obadiah, 10 juin 2012 - 06:48 .

[DukeOfNukes]

eroeru wrote...

I was referring to humans as having less muscles, yet the same amount of intelligence.

What makes you think that humans were anywhere near as intelligent?

And in the end, you get a huge "advanced" space ship that has to be taken down no matter what, why?... because someone says hysterically and in a state where they're clearly not thinking, that there's an advanced alien aboard who wants to destroy earth?

Not sure if serious...did you miss the part where the captain is the one who figures out this was a base full of WMD's? He knew there was a survivor...he probably had video feed showing the alien going crazy and ripping David's head off before killing several people. I don't think it's far fetched for him to believe the alien hates humans, and wants to kill us all.

Daennikus wrote...
And technically, this wasn't an abortion because she didn't kill it. Oh no, maybe her Christian beliefs prevented her from doing that!

She tried to perform an abortion. The machine was calibrated for men only, so it wasn't an operation that it included. However, that did seem kind of lame...they knew there was going to be a female on board, and the head of the expedition was female. Kinda stupid, but I could see a major corporation doing something like that.

KingJason13 wrote...

Fuel for the fire: The derelict Engineer spacecraft in Alien is on LV426... NOT LV223.

Again, not sure if you're trying to show a plot hole or something. This isn't a direct prequel to Alien. There was no alien beacon warning people away...there was a crashed spaceship littered all around, and the Space Jockey didn't die in his pilots chair from a small chestburster...he was pretty much ripped in half inside a human lifeboat. This wasn't supposed to be the same planet.


As to the whole "Why would scientists do THIS" thing...you all give scientists WAY too much credit. There are any number of explanations, so take your pick. They could have let their curiousity get the better of them. My personal favorite is a plain and simple...just being a scientist doesn't make you smart. Yes, they're definately smart in their field (geology), but that doesn't mean you know how to handle an alien life form.

[eroeru]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

eroeru wrote...

I was referring to humans as having less muscles, yet the same amount of intelligence.

What makes you think that humans were anywhere near as intelligent?

 

Sorry, but in my book, intelligence is not measured by how shiny technology you're handling. It's about much more than that. In this movie, all intelligence is nullified, for any of the characters and the movie itself.

You give the more specific answer yourself, in your next comment, which I address in the bottom-part of my post.

DukeOfNukes wrote... 

And in the end, you get a huge "advanced" space ship that has to be taken down no matter what, why?... because someone says hysterically and in a state where they're clearly not thinking, that there's an advanced alien aboard who wants to destroy earth?

Not sure if serious...

 Yeah, I'm mumbling in laughter myself, yet I'm aghast, so I wouldn't call the state of mind as serious per se. Also, I do handle my reactions humorously, introspectively and self-ironically as is usual. :innocent:

About the film's "reasoning": of course you as a viewer are presented with the state of things rather blatantly and on a platter, but again, try imagining yourself in any of those situations. And think about what are the smart and/or natural things to do in those situations.

(btw, my criticism goes far beyond the usual "if I would be there I would be like "this is crazy"" - I'm very ok with ourageous situations - but the more outrageous the situation, the less so a (smart) man will be. In this movie it was the opposite - allegedly and pathetically "smart" people with stupid as **** one-liners don't know how to behave AT ALL, but to rampage and have sex, and at this point there are no intricacies possible even)

 

DukeOfNukes wrote... 
 I don't think it's far fetched for him to believe the alien hates humans, and wants to kill us all.

Yes it is, oh yes, how very much and in how many levels it is.
Also, to come back to your first question, I actually said these aliens were even worse off than the human researcher baffoons. Why in hell's name would the alien "creator" be so stupid and irrational in a situation like that?? There's only one answer: to justify the reasonless ad hoc narrative, mindless CGI and blowing stuff up in order to appeal to low-end expectations.

All the usual meta-narrative stuff that's allegedly going on doesn't mean much when implementation and believability is zero.

Modifié par eroeru, 10 juin 2012 - 10:17 .

[Obadiah]

eroeru wrote...
...
Why in hell's name would the alien "creator" be so stupid and irrational in a situation like that?? There's only one answer: to justify the reasonless ad hoc narrative, mindless CGI and blowing stuff up in order to appeal to low-end expectations.
...

That statement is based on certain preconceptions on what that being is that woke up. Its the same mistake that Wayland, David, and Shaw all make.

If you look closely at the Engineer's neck you'll see that it is artifical. This is not a fully natural being as the one we see at the beginning of the movie. The humanoid Engineer's head is growing out of something synthetic - probably bioengineered. It may be a willing cyborg fitted with organic prothetics, or as David is, it may be yet another artificial being in the image of its makers.

Why would it attack?

One explanation: if it is artificial, it may be only designed to do is one thing - fly the ship and complete its mission; not think, not talk, certainly not waste time with aliens that have invaded this remote laboratory. How could a Xenomorph be born from such a being as happens at the end? The artificial engineer could still have organic parts, they may simply be synthetically designed.

Modifié par Obadiah, 11 juin 2012 - 02:17 .

[eroeru]

ad hoc...

[Ibn_Shisha]

Wow. Not really the reaction I expected. I obviously was more concerned with just enjoying the film than taking every little detail, picking it apart, and ripping it to shreds.

As for why they would go, not that farfetched. The 2 idealistic "kids" find what they believe to be an "invitation" from what they believe to be our "creators". They then find the tycoon desperate to save his own life with the cash to fund the whole thing.

David's actions - not that farfetched. He's curious, under orders from "Dad," resentful of his status, and obsessed with Shaw.

Why they assume Mr. Space Jockey is going to Earth? Umm, perhaps the little Earth hologram in the navigation system had something to do with it? Just saying...

Mr. Space Jockey's actions - last survivor of a military facility allegedly designed to wipe us out, wakes up to find us there. If his orders 2000 years ago were to wipe us out, while we were still primitive, and he wakes up to find us actually there, I would think that would lend a bit of urgency to the mission.

Halloway's actions. As for the change in behavior (pre-goo), if your life's dream was dashed before your eyes, you'd be a bit mopey, too. As for the "conception," as he had just been infected, I think it's safe to assume he wasn't being controlled yet (after he is still able to sacrifice himself even the final stages) - it was probably more "let's relieve our disappointments by getting laid."

The captain - if you saw all this **** go down, even if you didn't already have reason to believe the ship might be heading toward earth, would you be willing to take the chance? He made it clear he wasn't going to let any goo get to earth under any circumstances.

Vickers - as an arrogant ice queen who harbors deep resentment over her father caring for and trusting his "personal assistance mech" more than her (not to mention trying to make himself immortal, so she'd always be stuck in that situation), I thought she was pretty believable.

off-topic: since friday night, my me3 mp geth infiltrator's name is David

Modifié par Ibn_Shisha, 11 juin 2012 - 04:25 .

[Ibn_Shisha]

Also, the 2 "lost boys":

Mr. Biologist. It seemed pretty obvious to me that he was lonely, had taken a bromantic shine to Fyfield, and was desperate to prove himself.

As for Fyfield the Geologist, I fail to understand the logic in trying to understand the logic of a guy who's tokin' through his suit respirator the entire time. Just sayin'...

Modifié par Ibn_Shisha, 11 juin 2012 - 04:24 .