76 réponses à ce sujet

[KingJason13]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

KingJason13 wrote...

Fuel for the fire: The derelict Engineer spacecraft in Alien is on LV426... NOT LV223.

She flew off in the ship at the end, I wonder how many more times I'm going to have to repeat this.

No **** Sherlock.... proud of yourself for noticing that!?

[KingJason13]

Eurypterid wrote...

KingJason13 wrote...

Fuel for the fire: The derelict Engineer spacecraft in Alien is on LV426... NOT LV223.

You're assuming this is the same planet as the one in Alien? I don't believe it's supposed to be at all.

@eroeru, while I agree with some of your points about the problems with the plot and character actions, I think you're stretching some of your criticism a bit as well. But yeah, I was shaking my head a number of times at some of the stupid actions some of these characters were taking.

Still though, I actually enjoyed the movie. Definitely not great or 'epic', but I thought it was entertaining.

NO, I'm pointing out that it's NOT the same moon. Prometheus' Engineer Installations are on LV-223, whereas Alien's Engineer ship is on LV-426... Either there is definitely going to be a sequel to fill this gap in... or, we are going to be left to our own devices  to fill in the blanks...

Modifié par KingJason13, 11 juin 2012 - 06:24 .

[KingJason13]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

KingJason13 wrote...

Fuel for the fire: The derelict Engineer spacecraft in Alien is on LV426... NOT LV223.

Again, not sure if you're trying to show a plot hole or something. This isn't a direct prequel to Alien. There was no alien beacon warning people away...there was a crashed spaceship littered all around, and the Space Jockey didn't die in his pilots chair from a small chestburster...he was pretty much ripped in half inside a human lifeboat. This wasn't supposed to be the same planet.

I'm just pointing this fact out because I think a lot of people who haven't seen the Alien films in awhile are assuming it was the same planet.

Modifié par KingJason13, 11 juin 2012 - 08:19 .

[Ibn_Shisha]

Most likely, the thing from the ending gets on one of the other dormant ships, where there is another sleeping dude, wake up - take off - infect - crash land - Nostromo.

[Blacklash93]

bobobo878 wrote...

Personally I thought that this movie suffered from a lot of the same problems as Avatar. While it was shiny and impressive, they both suffered in the respect that the movie became a bit hard to believe when you realize how hilariously bad the more technologically advanced race is at wiping out the less technologically advanced race.

Haven't seen this movie, but it wasn't so bad in Avatar. That was a mining corporation with some degree of militarized protection with gunships and not anything close to a full-blown army. I doubt they had or saw the need for any crafts for orbital strikes and their objective at the end required them to traverse a radar-jamming maze environment of floating islands, giving the good guys a tremendous field advantage with their mountable space-pterodactyls. On the ground they had space-rhinos and as we all know anyone dealing with those is royally screwed. Also they had a sentient planet on their side.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 12 juin 2012 - 01:18 .

[Daennikus]

Blacklash93 wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Personally I thought that this movie suffered from a lot of the same problems as Avatar. While it was shiny and impressive, they both suffered in the respect that the movie became a bit hard to believe when you realize how hilariously bad the more technologically advanced race is at wiping out the less technologically advanced race.

Haven't seen this movie, but it wasn't so bad in Avatar. That was a mining corporation with some degree of militarized protection with gunships and not anything close to a full-blown army. I doubt they had or saw the need for any crafts for orbital strikes and their objective at the end required them to traverse a radar-jamming maze environment of floating islands, giving the good guys a tremendous field advantage with their mountable space-pterodactyls. On the ground they had space-rhinos and as we all know anyone dealing with those is royally screwed. Also they had a sentient planet on their side.

Technology makes a civilization only as strong as its weakness = technology. "What was built can be destroyed" especially when only Humans were involved in the concepts. This is what we should get from Avatar. 

But Prometheus is about the unknown, our fear for it (the Xenomorphs, the black goo), and facing our limitations when it comes to universal knowledge. Weyland Corp embodies our thirst for expansion and domination, using space exploration and science to explore the galaxy while in fact it's driven by people's lust for power. I always assumed they were the real bad guys while the Aliens represented the raw force of nature standing its ground. 

Perhaps Prometheus was too action/CGI-oriented, but as I said earlier in this thread, the special effects are meant to keep the viewer's attention and cater to a wider audience than just the fans of the series. But it brings a whole new dimension to the story and I'm so psyched about that.

Modifié par Daennikus, 12 juin 2012 - 07:11 .

[KingJason13]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

KingJason13 wrote...

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

KingJason13 wrote...

Fuel for the fire: The derelict Engineer spacecraft in Alien is on LV426... NOT LV223.

She flew off in the ship at the end, I wonder how many more times I'm going to have to repeat this.

No **** Sherlock.... proud of yourself for noticing that!?

I mean't that because Ridley has stated this is a 1/2 prequels, that the Ship is obviously going to crash On LV-426.

You are the fool here, don't insult me because of your stupidity. 

LOL I'm hardly the fool here. You, however, are highly obnoxious when you communicate at people.

It's also NOT obvious wether the ship will crash on LV-426 or not. Although, it is a definite possibility.

Modifié par KingJason13, 14 juin 2012 - 09:13 .

[palker]

eroeru wrote...

The movie was utter bollocks.

The start was ok, as in the trailer, and showed some good pacing and nice atmosphere of the desolate space-ship, and the interesting man. Then we get to find out he's not human, fine. Then the real action-narrative-narrative action pacing kicks in, and it turns terrible. Then it blatantly shows that the whole crew is comprised of utter idiots. No character is "opened up", besides the worthless scenes where it does happen unmetaphorically.

I could not believe a single second of the horribly idiotic crew in action. I kinda threw in the premise that ok, this is an alternate reality where scientists actually are that moronic, and through miracles survive past birth. And then it cleared up that their "creators" are even worse, and as they have the same dna, yet less muscles, I think it was to be expected that humans were ****-for-brains in this parallel universe.

NOTHING was believable, and NO ONE and NOTHING was to be cared for in this movie. It was utterly crap. End of line, hollywood.

LOL Chill out man there was only one scene that i found that characters were acting in a very stupid way but I already cannot remeber what it was.

I liked the movie and i hope for a sequel where we get to see aliens tearing shiz up on the engineers home planet 
I think that most of the things in the movie were explained quite well and I think that this is what happened:
The so called engineers created humanity by accident or intentionally during some experiment they were running or maybe they just created our species just to test their latest bioweapon the Xenomorph.
They screwed up and got wiped out by them before they could finish their mission.
Nobody from their kind bothered to come investigate because the base was either top secret or they did know what probably happened and decided to stay away from that place.

Edit:
From reading some more rections to the movie people were expecting word by word explanation of the Alien movie set up. To be honest i was expecting the same but i am not buthurt about not receiving it Prometheus contained a lot of uncertainty but it was the good kind of uncertainty not like the ME3.

Modifié par palker, 14 juin 2012 - 09:55 .

[Leinadi]

Personally I thought Prometheus did an alright job of opening up the Alien mythos in some ways. Some things I like, some things I don't. But overall I'm very glad that they didn't spend the entire film trying to explain things, but instead left certain things open to interpretation and also presented *new* questions.

So my problem isn't really the way they handle the Alien mythology, but... yes, the characters and the script. The characters which are so under-developed, in addition to acting like complete lunatics at times. And these are supposed to be smart, professional people. And almost worse... None of them seem to react to what is happening, these completely extraordinary and terrifying events.
It's not like the crew of the Nostromo in Alien is incredibly developed (in the film at least, I know bios were written out for the characters) but at least you got to see them act like humans. I never thought I'd actually miss a "whiny" character like Lambert, but something like that is sorely needed in Prometheus. Something to raise the human drama, to raise the tension and stress, to raise the believability.

And then there are things that are just... aargh. Like Weyland being "revealed" and holy hell, Vickers is his DAUGHTER! Terrible scenes that one may draw some subtext from but ultimately feel so incredibly undercooked and underused in the actual film that it actually becomes laughable.

There are a lot of things I really like in Prometheus which is why it's so frustrating that the script and/or editing *completely* drops the ball on so many other things.

[Obadiah]

palker wrote...
...
Nobody from their kind bothered to come investigate because the base was either top secret or they did know what probably happened and decided to stay away from that place.
...

To me, this was a very important indicator to the fall of the Engineer's society. Nobody sets up up a facility like the one on LV223 and just abandons it due to catastrophe, no matter how remote the facility. If anything, a cleanup crew would have nuked the site from orbit. The reason this facility is still there in htat condition is that their society is either in decline, or completely dead.

Not sure what answers Dr. Shaw will find.

[LTD]

Obadiah wrote...

palker wrote...
...
Nobody from their kind bothered to come investigate because the base was either top secret or they did know what probably happened and decided to stay away from that place.
...

To me, this was a very important indicator to the fall of the Engineer's society. Nobody sets up up a facility like the one on LV223 and just abandons it due to catastrophe, no matter how remote the facility. If anything, a cleanup crew would have nuked the site from orbit. The reason this facility is still there in htat condition is that their society is either in decline, or completely dead.

Not sure what answers Dr. Shaw will find.

'

You sure you wanna evaluate or condemn the actions of these Human Alien Spacemen based on our scales and what  *we* would do? Clearly the space magic black goo had a significant ritualistic meaning for this lot. Perhaps it is core piece of their religion? Perhaps it *is* their religion. Mayhaps **** hitting fan in their ship kinda turned the ship/planet/solar system into a sacred off-limits site?

....Having said all that I don't believe any of these guys remain alive either! Tis a shame, I wish the whole movie had been about them. Angry looking, pref. MUTE Space Jockeys mucking about would have been so much better than the terribly written, exceptionally unlikeable crew we had to endure.

Come to think of it, best thing someone who has never seen this movie could possibly do is watch a version dubbed in language he isn't famiiar with. I'm being completely serious. This would make the movie little bit better. Every single scientist and crew member is just..so..terrible:l Not understanding a word they say would in some scenes at least deliver an illusion of a possibility of a conversation that makes some degree of sense possibly going on. This way, them space vagoos of H:R Giger and other fairly awesome visual aspects of the flick would get to shine without writing staining them too severly.

Example:
English version;
Hmm..Why is the  insuffrable scientist #2 all pissed off, drunk and in some sort of  distress? - > Oh..he is emo the two hour visit to ancient alien facility didn't result in meeting a live one...
....right:(

Version dubbed in Svahili: Hmm..Why is the  insuffrable scientist #2 all pissed off, drunk and in some sort of  distress? - > Imagination kicks in! Ah, he must regret removing his helmet like some sort of a complete moron.
Haa see, he got infected, there ya go!




Seriously..how and why does one write so terrible people to horror movie? Bad writing ofc answers to the question for the most part. Still, most of these people were written unlikeable on purpose. Where is the sense in that. Audience is supposed to be vaguely interested if somebody survives or not. At least half of the crew were utterly terrible ****s. Other half were terrible due to poor writing.

Easy to see it's written by someone who was involved with Lost.
Supernatural black magic goo that behaves randomly and has illogical set of qualities that randomly change from scene to scene kills people. Everybody is annoying. Look over here msyterious stuff woah! Not gonna tell you what it is pal. Time for credits. Ps **** you.
'

Modifié par LTD, 15 juin 2012 - 10:42 .

[Obadiah]

LTD wrote...
You sure you wanna evaluate or condemn the actions of these Human Alien Spacemen based on our scales and what  *we* would do? Clearly the space magic black goo had a significant ritualistic meaning for this lot. Perhaps it is core piece of their religion? Perhaps it *is* their religion. Mayhaps **** hitting fan in their ship kinda turned the ship/planet/solar system into a sacred off-limits site?
...

Remember, they didn't just leave goo, the left a fleet of fully functional space ships at the facility.

There are a lot of reasons the Engineers may not return to the facility, but pretty much every one of them points to their society in decline.

If there is a religious reason that they did not visit the facility, that means their religion was over-riding basic reason, which in general would put their society in decline.

If they simply declared the system off limits, while knowing that the sentient species they created could find the facility (given enough time) and spread the contaminants (quite possibly to their homeworld with their ships), that points to a lack of resources to do a proper decontamination or fundamental lack of judgement, which would put their society in decline.

[LTD]

Obadiah wrote...


If there is a religious reason that they did not visit the facility, that means their religion was over-riding basic reason, which in general would put their society in decline.

Has our species  ever had a  world religion that wouldn't do this?

[Halfdan The Menace]

The Space Jockey unmasking dissappointed me. Why they have to be "Human"? I was hoping for a bizarre look. Also no Xenomorph and Predator reference which makes half the storyline boring.

[Obadiah]

LTD wrote...
...
Has our species  ever had a  world religion that wouldn't do this?

All the time. The 10 commandments are perfect example of religion promoting harmony within a civilization to allow it to thrive and progress.

People like to bash religion, but if you believe in evolution and natural selection, then you have to believe that something as universal as religion is a naturally selected (and largely beneficial) trait.

Perhaps I should have said "over-riding basic reason in a negative way."

[LTD]

Crusades, stoning a woman to death because she got raped,refusal to teach evolution at school, religious wars among Christians of Europe in 16th century.
..We all could come up with tons and tons of examples of flourishing society having religion overriding basic reason in pretty drastic fashion.

Modifié par LTD, 17 juin 2012 - 04:04 .

[Obadiah]

^^
No one has made an argument that religion cannot influence people to make bad decisions. However pretending that is all that it does is simply not a complete review of history. Religion has been part and parcel of our society, and we have gotten here. "Here" may have problems, but for any bad that can be blamed on religion, there is good as well.

Modifié par Obadiah, 17 juin 2012 - 05:10 .

[LTD]

I never suggested religions were all bad, or even bad.I personally think people are better off believing in something other than just themselves. Original argument yhad to do with wether or not a society (or rather culture) that is perfectly functional or flourishing can have some extremely restricting and seemingly irrational religious convictions regardless.

Modifié par LTD, 17 juin 2012 - 05:37 .

[Obadiah]

LTD wrote...

I never suggested religions were all bad, or even bad.I personally think people are better off believing in something other than just themselves. Original argument yhad to do with wether or not a society (or rather culture) that is perfectly functional or flourishing can have some extremely restricting and seemingly irrational religious convictions regardles.

You are, of course, right.

However, the decision to abandon the LV-223 facility may be "restricting" and "irrational", but it is also objectively dangerous to their society. It is a bad decision that has stood for 2000 years. If the Engineer's religion caused that decision, and further developments did not cause them to redress it, that is not an indication of a society that is flourishing. That is evidence their their society is in decline.

The Engineer's society "might" be flourishing despite such a religious dicision, but as I said, the decision is an indication of decline.

Modifié par Obadiah, 17 juin 2012 - 06:26 .

[KingJason13]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

KingJason13 wrote...

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

KingJason13 wrote...

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

KingJason13 wrote...

Fuel for the fire: The derelict Engineer spacecraft in Alien is on LV426... NOT LV223.

She flew off in the ship at the end, I wonder how many more times I'm going to have to repeat this.

No **** Sherlock.... proud of yourself for noticing that!?

I mean't that because Ridley has stated this is a 1/2 prequels, that the Ship is obviously going to crash On LV-426.

You are the fool here, don't insult me because of your stupidity. 

LOL I'm hardly the fool here. You, however, are highly obnoxious when you communicate at people.

It's also NOT obvious wether the ship will crash on LV-426 or not. Although, it is a definite possibility.

So what your saying is that I may be right, but you are angry at me for So?

"Go plough yourself, King!"

The two are seperate:

1) You annoyed me, initially, by being a troglodyte.

2) You MAY be right about a point you made WHILE you were trolling me... BUT:
     A) The point is HARDLY a revelation.
     I had already figured that possibility out for myself, thanks. 
     C) I had never said anything to the contrary, so, really, you're arguing with yourself on that one.

Problem is: you attacked my first post without even understanding what I meant by it. Your assumption was wildly off base and so you mindlessy lashed out... If you'd bothered to ask me to clarify, instead of trolling me, we could have had a civil conversation on Prometheus... Unfortunately, your social skills leave a lot to be desired... so, we won't.

Now... back to under the bridge with you... I'm done.