111 réponses à ce sujet

[Joe Del Toro]

Just be happy, damn it! It is a happy ending because happy!

[MzAdventure]

emergency induction port

[fr33stylez]

 How did Shepard sprint like an Olympian into the Synthesis beam when he was injured/limping the whole time? 

[Uncle Jo]

Ctserber wrote...

The entire idea behind the whole cycle was to stop organics from creating a purely synthetic race that would exterminate all organic life. Thus, the Reapers harvest advanced civilizations before they can create Skynet and doom all organic life.

The entire idea was to stop the Reapers to commit genocides every 50,000 years, that exterminate almost all organic life.
The Reapers are harvesting us since:
- they're partly organics, thus need us to "enhance" themselves and replace the eventual losts whilst the Harvests.
- our technological progress could at some point makes us a threat for them.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 04 juin 2012 - 02:25 .

[Ctserber]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Ctserber wrote...

The entire idea behind the whole cycle was to stop organics from creating a purely synthetic race that would exterminate all organic life. Thus, the Reapers harvest advanced civilizations before they can create Skynet and doom all organic life.

The entire idea was to stop the Reapers to commit genocides every 50,000 years, that exterminate almost all organic life.
The Reapers are harvesting us since:
- they're partly organics, thus need us to "enhance" themselves and replace the eventual losts whilst the Harvests.
- our technological progress could at some point makes us a threat for them.

If that were true, solution 1: Kill us all, hence, negating the need to replinish losses sustained WHILE ATTACKING US.

Solution 2: Kill us all, hence, eliminating any possibility of our technology becoming a threat to them.

Solution 3: If they CAN'T kill us all, then harvest us before we get intergalactic travel, and hence, are zero threat to them.

Look, the Catalyst TELLS us that the purpose of the cycles, of the Reapers, is to harvest civilizations before they can create synthetics that will kill them all. That's what he SAYS. 

Modifié par Ctserber, 04 juin 2012 - 03:46 .

[TJX2045]

 Because no one thought about pure synthetics fighting the melting pot of hybrids.  And because speculation is  fun.

[DanielsMind]

they are somewhat equal, no?

[Palidane]

Yeah, it makes no sense. N*zi Germany and the English killed each other cause Hitler wanted to take over everything, and they didn't shy away from it because both of their nations were mostly white. Tribes in Africa kill each other all the time. South American gangs kill other hispanics all the time. Synthesis would solve nothing.

And that's not even mentioning that the supposed "problem" Synthesis doesn't solve doesn't even exist. Throughout his whole speech I was thinking: "Your welcome to return to Rannoch, Admiral Raan. With us." Just look up, Synthetics and Organic fleets are working together to kill you!

Modifié par Palidane, 04 juin 2012 - 04:26 .

[GoblinSapper]

Yo dog

Modifié par GoblinSapper, 04 juin 2012 - 04:33 .

[Quyk Sylvyr]

I've always sort of imagined that while becoming part-synthetic, the Catalyst installed blocks (sort of like the blocks Cerberus installed in EDI in ME2) making it impossible for all hybrid creatures to perform certain acts. Of course as my Shepard is pretty big on free will, it means she has serious problems with synthesis (assuming she believes what the reapers say).

[Isichar]

fr33stylez wrote...

 How did Shepard sprint like an Olympian into the Synthesis beam when he was injured/limping the whole time? 

redbull

[ZIPO396]

Isichar wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

 How did Shepard sprint like an Olympian into the Synthesis beam when he was injured/limping the whole time? 

redbull

He didn't fly up the tube thou.

The Reapers will probably still kill everyone in the galaxy anyway. Just from orbit now as they can't harvest them anymore. That way the old cycle is still in effect.

[nightcobra]

basically...the leader of the reapers proposes to shepard that he should jumpstart the process to propel everyone to the last stage of life, organic/synthetic hybrid, the pinnacle of evolution and existence....you know, what the reapers see themselves as.

i guess the catalyst thought that if everyone was just like the reapers then no more death, pain and strife would occur anymore. he isn't wrong in that regard but as an organic myself i rather prefer my current form thank you very much.

[LKx]

Ctserber wrote...
[...]

It doesn't.
Even if every material is now partially organic (ew... but space magic have no limits afterall...) they will just synthesize them for labor.

Thinking otherwise is just naive... or, well, artistic!

Modifié par LKx, 04 juin 2012 - 08:08 .

[Ieldra]

@OP:
I've tried to make sense of that in my thread A different ascension - the Synthesis compendium

But I believe I have put a lot more thought into it than the writers, and my interpretation uses unpublished material, because without that it would be impossible to make sense of it.

Mac Walters' respect for the science in SF was always close to nonexistent. But I'd never have thought they'd go for outright mockery. Note that this is not about the "space magic". Superscience beyond the bounds of what we know is a staple in SF. What gets me is the "new...DNA" and the "final evolution of life".

I don't really mind having to do all the work myself. But I do mind being played for a moron by the writers.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 juin 2012 - 08:44 .

[Motherlander]

I have considered this question and come up with a few possibilities. However, it all depends on what Synthesis actually works; which of course we don't know.

In theory, synthesis does not stop post-synthesis species from making new pure synthetics. But synthesis may make this more unlikely.

Of course, I admit, i have to make assumptions and specualtion to make my point and you can blame Bioware for that.

ORGANICS
There are two points here

1) New abilities of organics
My assumption is that synthesis gives organics attributes of synthesis. So that means they can potentially upload download a lot of data and knowledge, consciousness can survive outside his/her body andthe organic may have vastly increased potential for comuting power.

In addition, synthesis may make organics more compatible to body modificationm inclusing cybernetics.

This means they are more capable of doing all activities a synthetic can do themselves.

These new abilities may need extra implants or not. But for this argument, it doesn't matter.

Since organics can potentially compute and act like machines themselves, then there is actually no need to develop more cybernetics.

This actually could lead to some nightmare scenarios where some species enslave organics as zombie servants which have the same capacities of synthetics. They would be like the human lobozomized servitors in Wahammer 40k. And synthesis would facilitate this process.

And I think this may well be one of the legitimate drawbacks of synthesis for organics.

But in effect, since organics can produce these servants, they would not need to develop new synthetics.

And yes, it is just like Brave New World. But not necessarily a positive thing.

2) Relationship with the Geth
Of course, another reason that there is no need to develop new synthetics is because organics can use the Geth.

I believe that organics could simply buy and sell services from the Geth who will still naturally have all the basic features of synthetics still available.

This could be a commercial arrangement or it could also be slavery.

In my view of Synthesis, the Geth would become very individualistic and would develop organic emotions and drives. Geth society would split and be run more closer to an organic society resullting in less consnesus. So many would start to offer services for money. Or they may even enslave other Geth for the organics.

So the end result is possibly that organics don't need to develop new synthetics because they can either 1) use organics for the task or 2) buy services from the Geth.

SYNTHETICS
The Geth would of course not need to develop new synthetics as they have all the advantages of a synthetic themselves. It is more likely that the Geth will produce more post-synthesis Geth.

CONCLUSION
So yes, it is still possible that organics and synthetics could produce more pure synthetics which would rise up and destroy the creators.

But because there would really no need to develop new synthetics, it is less likely to happen.

[The Night Mammoth]

To use frylock23's analogy from another thread, what the Catalyst does is roughly equivalent to killing every human on earth to prevent a nuclear winter.

Sounds logical right?

Who in their right mind among us would advocate it as ethical and reasonable though?

I'm guessing no one. People would try every other alternative.

[Asharad Hett]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

To use frylock23's analogy from another thread, what the Catalyst does is roughly equivalent to killing every human on earth to prevent a nuclear winter.

Sounds logical right?

Who in their right mind among us would advocate it as ethical and reasonable though?

I'm guessing no one. People would try every other alternative.

I think you would be surprised at the number of wackos out there.

[The Night Mammoth]

Asharad Hett wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

To use frylock23's analogy from another thread, what the Catalyst does is roughly equivalent to killing every human on earth to prevent a nuclear winter.

Sounds logical right?

Who in their right mind among us would advocate it as ethical and reasonable though?

I'm guessing no one. People would try every other alternative.

I think you would be surprised at the number of wackos out there.

Maybe, but in comparison to the non-wackos? Negligible. 

The very title placed on them doesn't exactly add credibility. 

[Motherlander]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

To use frylock23's analogy from another thread, what the Catalyst does is roughly equivalent to killing every human on earth to prevent a nuclear winter.

Sounds logical right?

Who in their right mind among us would advocate it as ethical and reasonable though?

I'm guessing no one. People would try every other alternative.

Not completely on topic, but I will respond.

Given that we don't actually know what Synthesis does, then your theory could well be true.

In an ME context, synthesis is actiually the equivalent of deliberately exploding a ship packed with Element zero in order to creat children with biotics so humaity could compete with other races. This actually happened in ME canon history.

So deliberate mass manipulation of of this nature has actually happened before in ME. That is how Kaiden got his biotic powers i believe.

Some would say that was beneficial to humanity. But from ME lore, we know that the cost to the individual can be very high.

i belive that is the same thing with regards to Synthesis, just on a much wider level.

[Xellith]

Look at synthesis. Look at the problem. ONE DOES NOT COMPUTE!

Protect organics from synthetics by erasing organics and replacing them with something else? Kinda self defeating...

[The Night Mammoth]

Motherlander wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

To use frylock23's analogy from another thread, what the Catalyst does is roughly equivalent to killing every human on earth to prevent a nuclear winter.

Sounds logical right?

Who in their right mind among us would advocate it as ethical and reasonable though?

I'm guessing no one. People would try every other alternative.

Not completely on topic, but I will respond.

Given that we don't actually know what Synthesis does, then your theory could well be true.

In an ME context, synthesis is actiually the equivalent of deliberately exploding a ship packed with Element zero in order to creat children with biotics so humaity could compete with other races. This actually happened in ME canon history.

So deliberate mass manipulation of of this nature has actually happened before in ME. That is how Kaiden got his biotic powers i believe.

Some would say that was beneficial to humanity. But from ME lore, we know that the cost to the individual can be very high.

i belive that is the same thing with regards to Synthesis, just on a much wider level.

Sure, I wasn't actually talking about synthesis, just the problem it was trying to solve, the cycles as it were, and the Catalyst's problem. I have a tendancy to focus on that too much. 

Synthesis is.......... I don't really know what to make of synthesis. 

I mean, I advocate control because of the headcanon possibilities, I don't actually like it. Something about green just doesn't sit right, and it's probably more to do with how completely out-of-the-blue it is. It's a complete unknown, at least with control you have some idea of what you're getting into. I also don't like imposing changes on anyone. 

It could be beneficial, or it could be horrendous. What I do know is that it overturns the very foundations of life in its entirety with unknown effects, so it's not something I'm willing to choose. A tad hypocritical given the banner, but that's just how it seems. 

[Pride Demon]

It doesn't, but that's not important, because that's not the point of Synthesis...
In fact, stopping the synthetic-organic "conflict" ("chaos" as the Catalyst calls it) is not the point of any of the endings, as synthetics could eventually still attack again in each of them, regardless of the one you choose...

The point of the Crucible is solving Shepard's problem, not the Catalyst's. It's supposed to stop the Reaper's cycle, that's it...

Every ending does that in its own way, so they work as advertised; they still are not "good" in any practical sense and require more closure and clarity (which they should have given us in the first place) but they do stop the reapers from harvesting everything, at least for now...
Every other problem is beyond the scope of the Crucible...

[The Night Mammoth]

Pride Demon wrote...
Every other problem is beyond the scope of the Crucible...

But not the Catalyst, which is determining the choice. 

[ZIPO396]

Motherlander wrote...

But because there would really no need to develop new synthetics, it is less likely to happen.

I submit to you two good reason why they'd still develop Synthetics. People are both really lazy and really cheap. As a whole that is. EG The original Geth were tools (lazy Quarians ) they didn't mean to make them smart that was just an accident.