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The IT is True


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#251
liggy002

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Festilence wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

What would your reaction be?


   Forget about posting responses like "It's never gonna happen."  The point of this thread is not to argue the IT but to get an idea of what the community's reaction would be.  Yes, I could make another poll, but I want to see actual reactions in words.    Imagine you live in a world in which the IT is proven to be true in the Extended Cut,  What would your reaction be?


It would depend on whether they actually show you what happens after you make your choice.  In particular, for the Destroy Ending with high enough EMS to get the "Breath" scene, I'd want to actually be shown what happens after that.

If they did that without creating more plotholes, then I would be pleased.


Agreed but I would add that I desire gameplay and a boss battle and conversation with Harbinger as well.

#252
davishepard

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liggy002 wrote...

   I don't see how it's unrealistic to make 2 seperate EC versions.  Bioware most definitely has the resources and sure it would take extra development time, but so what.  It's a symbol of them going the extra mile in an attempt to please their fanbase.   Besides, they can reuse certain assets and scenes from both versions of the EC. 

      And, as far as people who only get closure and not the IT getting gameplay, they can give those people game play too.  For instance, in the Shepard survives (Red ending) you can still control Shepard in a final scene when he a conversation with his parents or  maybe Harbinger somehow survived the Red explosion and you still get to confront him.  Or, if Shepard died in Control or Synthesis, we get to control some of his squadmates in special post ending gameplay scenarios.

  Anyway, what would be the point of being jealous over gameplay anyway?  It's purely irrational since the pro ending people who just want closure and no IT aren't expecting gameplay anyway and are fine with that.  So why be jealous if IT people get it?  This childish "I want what he has Daddy" attitude needs to stop.  I am all for an everyone wins scenario and that is what I am trying to advocate here.  Take it or leave it.

  Good one sack of cat, lol, I'm purely irrational when it comes to eating junk food though.  I'll say that I'm not going to eat it and then sneak a trip to the ice cream shop.  As for purchase decisions, well , that is an entirely different matter.

There can be only one clarfication to the endings, and I don't think they will use the IT way for the clarification they are doing.

This suggestion looks like an early realization that IT is not true at all, and fits with the stage of "bargain" in the five stages of grief IMO.

#253
liggy002

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davishepard wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

   I don't see how it's unrealistic to make 2 seperate EC versions.  Bioware most definitely has the resources and sure it would take extra development time, but so what.  It's a symbol of them going the extra mile in an attempt to please their fanbase.   Besides, they can reuse certain assets and scenes from both versions of the EC. 

      And, as far as people who only get closure and not the IT getting gameplay, they can give those people game play too.  For instance, in the Shepard survives (Red ending) you can still control Shepard in a final scene when he a conversation with his parents or  maybe Harbinger somehow survived the Red explosion and you still get to confront him.  Or, if Shepard died in Control or Synthesis, we get to control some of his squadmates in special post ending gameplay scenarios.

  Anyway, what would be the point of being jealous over gameplay anyway?  It's purely irrational since the pro ending people who just want closure and no IT aren't expecting gameplay anyway and are fine with that.  So why be jealous if IT people get it?  This childish "I want what he has Daddy" attitude needs to stop.  I am all for an everyone wins scenario and that is what I am trying to advocate here.  Take it or leave it.

  Good one sack of cat, lol, I'm purely irrational when it comes to eating junk food though.  I'll say that I'm not going to eat it and then sneak a trip to the ice cream shop.  As for purchase decisions, well , that is an entirely different matter.

There can be only one clarfication to the endings, and I don't think they will use the IT way for the clarification they are doing.

This suggestion looks like an early realization that IT is not true at all, and fits with the stage of "bargain" in the five stages of grief IMO.


  It's not an admission that IT is not accurate.  It is a statement that reflects my own uncertainty as to whether or not the theory is accurate.  I am not a developer at Bioware and so I can't say with any certainty as to wheter or not it is true.  It is a suggestion that I have enacted as a backup plan in an attempt to convince Bioware to adopt the theory just in case that is not what they had in mind.  It is not a "bargaining" stage of grief.
  If you want to do a psychological profile on me, how about I do one on you.  It's simply called being selfish.  There is more than one interpretation of this ending.  It is not meant to be interpreted in solely one way.

#254
FellishBeast

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I would be excited, given that they hit all the right notes.

#255
Sousabird

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I'd do what Zaeed planned to do for retirment...

#256
liggy002

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Sousabird wrote...

I'd do what Zaeed planned to do for retirment...


What was that again?  Image IPB

#257
ZerebusPrime

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IT true, IT not true, either way the EC must be GOOD. If it's not, then the debate over IT may not matter.

#258
RebelReya

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ZerebusPrime wrote...

IT true, IT not true, either way the EC must be GOOD. If it's not, then the debate over IT may not matter.


So very true. Maybe that's something we can all still agree on. Maybe we are all too well encamped to consider the otherside if we're wrong.

Either way I think BW waited too long.

Modifié par RebelReya, 05 juin 2012 - 04:45 .


#259
SackofCat

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I'd be pretty happy if you really did find the joke funny (to clarify-not sarcasm).

The reuse of assets is a possibility in making an IT and a not indoctrination ending but I wonder if their going to use the reuse assets to make different endings technique so soon, and in the same ending no less.

The most likely route Bioware will take is to make 1 EC to please as many of their fans and frustrate and anger the fewest. These are things like: making the RGB and the rest of the ending more coherent, show what happened to our friends, the races, and galaxy as a result of our choice. IT really would be a vastly different ending to a lot of, if not most of, fans. There are a lot of different interpretations of the ending and most do not require that the current ending to not be happening in the physical world, where most of the setting has been up to this point.

There are things that may indicate something related to indoctrination but it is at least as likely as those things were present for another reason altogether. Most of the points IT make are painting the ending to be a dream or vision but they do not relate to indoctrination in particular.

For example, TIM apparently makes Shepard shoot Anderson. There are several things that do not make sense about this (which I can list if you would like) but they still make more sense than these characters being personifications of Sheperd's psyche. Nothing in Mass Effect has ever happened that is even remotely similar to this.

Are you even open to the possibility that Bioware can make a satisfying not-IT ending? I don't mean to put you on the spot or rain on your parade. Even if indoctrination is non-existent in the EC, it will not take away your's and other' interpretation or the effort, affection, and/or devotion you have put into this idea. If it turns out not to be true, will it really make the work and thought that went into IT less impressive?

#260
Taboo

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They'd have to rearrange some things, but they COULD do it.

It would certainly be a great nod to the more.....passionate observers.

#261
BatmanTurian

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SackofCat wrote...

I'd be pretty happy if you really did find the joke funny (to clarify-not sarcasm).

The reuse of assets is a possibility in making an IT and a not indoctrination ending but I wonder if their going to use the reuse assets to make different endings technique so soon, and in the same ending no less.

The most likely route Bioware will take is to make 1 EC to please as many of their fans and frustrate and anger the fewest. These are things like: making the RGB and the rest of the ending more coherent, show what happened to our friends, the races, and galaxy as a result of our choice. IT really would be a vastly different ending to a lot of, if not most of, fans. There are a lot of different interpretations of the ending and most do not require that the current ending to not be happening in the physical world, where most of the setting has been up to this point.

There are things that may indicate something related to indoctrination but it is at least as likely as those things were present for another reason altogether. Most of the points IT make are painting the ending to be a dream or vision but they do not relate to indoctrination in particular.

For example, TIM apparently makes Shepard shoot Anderson. There are several things that do not make sense about this (which I can list if you would like) but they still make more sense than these characters being personifications of Sheperd's psyche. Nothing in Mass Effect has ever happened that is even remotely similar to this.

Are you even open to the possibility that Bioware can make a satisfying not-IT ending? I don't mean to put you on the spot or rain on your parade. Even if indoctrination is non-existent in the EC, it will not take away your's and other' interpretation or the effort, affection, and/or devotion you have put into this idea. If it turns out not to be true, will it really make the work and thought that went into IT less impressive?


I personally think it would be really great if they came up with a better ending that didn't involve IT. IT is my preferred interpretation right now, but if Bioware made the ending more coherent, filled in some plot-holes, and explained things better I'd be just fine with a literal interpretation.

#262
SackofCat

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Well BatmanTurian,
I would not be surprised if most of the people that dislike the IT would hate it even if Bioware changed the ending and added a good one to make it fit the IT in a way that was consistent with the rest of the story and created a good and coherent narrative. Even if some might not admit it.

#263
GFOX7

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It would make me fear for the gaming industry because it would start a trend of developers releasing games without their actual endings and then making us wait months after their release to get the closure we were promised. Even worse, they'll make us pay for it.

Actually isn't there some scandal with Asura's Wrath related to that going on right now?

#264
zambot

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If IT is true, I'll watch the "real" ending on YouTube.

#265
MakeMineMako

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I wouldn't care, despite the Indoctrination Theory being an asspull. Anything would be better than what we got.

#266
liggy002

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SackofCat wrote...

I'd be pretty happy if you really did find the joke funny (to clarify-not sarcasm).

The reuse of assets is a possibility in making an IT and a not indoctrination ending but I wonder if their going to use the reuse assets to make different endings technique so soon, and in the same ending no less.

The most likely route Bioware will take is to make 1 EC to please as many of their fans and frustrate and anger the fewest. These are things like: making the RGB and the rest of the ending more coherent, show what happened to our friends, the races, and galaxy as a result of our choice. IT really would be a vastly different ending to a lot of, if not most of, fans. There are a lot of different interpretations of the ending and most do not require that the current ending to not be happening in the physical world, where most of the setting has been up to this point.

There are things that may indicate something related to indoctrination but it is at least as likely as those things were present for another reason altogether. Most of the points IT make are painting the ending to be a dream or vision but they do not relate to indoctrination in particular.

For example, TIM apparently makes Shepard shoot Anderson. There are several things that do not make sense about this (which I can list if you would like) but they still make more sense than these characters being personifications of Sheperd's psyche. Nothing in Mass Effect has ever happened that is even remotely similar to this.

Are you even open to the possibility that Bioware can make a satisfying not-IT ending? I don't mean to put you on the spot or rain on your parade. Even if indoctrination is non-existent in the EC, it will not take away your's and other' interpretation or the effort, affection, and/or devotion you have put into this idea. If it turns out not to be true, will it really make the work and thought that went into IT less impressive?


  Well, SackofCat, I would like to be open to another interpretation but none of those interpretations are likely to give me a final boss fight with Harbinger since he was either destroyed by a Reaper off switch, controlled by Shepard (a ridiculous notion), or was a part of the synthesis that gave us peace with Harbinger (even more ridiculous) .  Harbinger was one of my favorite characters in the Mass Effect Universe and the fact that he was a foot note in the game royally pissed me off.  Harbinger deserves better and he deserves to be the final boss of Mass Effect 3, not the Catalyst, Kai Leng or even TIM. 

  Also, I would like to add that shooting a pipe to destroy the Reapers takes all of the fun out of the ending, at least it does for me.   And I just can't stand behind the fact that peace could ever be achieved with the Reapers or that we would be able to control something that we don't comprehend in the slightest.  The Reapers are mass murderers and I wouldn't want to  make peace with them nor would I trust them in the slightest.  All of the villains of the series supported Control and Synthesis while all of the good guys supported Destroy.  The endings just don't make any sense to me.

  Let's suppose that they do somehow manage to explain all of those gaping plotholes and nonsensical occurences.  Well, that's all well and good, but that still wont make me agree with the direction that the story has taken.  I wanted a thrilling final battle with the Reapers.  I love my Star Wars endings.  That's just what I like and who I am.  Harbinger is one of my favorite supervillains and the whole thing was just a let down for me.  IT allows an entirely new ending to be crafted and it is the unknown possibilities and potential behind that which excite me.  Simply explaining the ending just doesn't cut it for me.  I don't agree with the fundamental direction of the story.

 The only other thing I would support besides the IT is a complete overhaul and scrap of the ending in favor of an entirely new one but they aren't going to do that anyway.

Modifié par liggy002, 05 juin 2012 - 04:50 .


#267
liggy002

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zambot wrote...

If IT is true, I'll watch the "real" ending on YouTube.


Assuming there's no gameplay involved, but what if there is?

#268
Geneaux486

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Obviously it'd be a massive retcon, taking our current very real endings and making them fake, and I'd be a little nervous about it, but if anyone could pull it off, it'd be Bioware. Basically I'd give it a chance like I'd give any other Mass Effect DLC. If it's good, that's awesome, the endings that were okay to begin with get better. If it sucks, no big deal, Bioware went above and beyond in doing the EC and hearing us out, after all the work they put into the actual game, so as far as I'm concerned they've got nowhere to go but up.

#269
Bill Casey

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GFOX7 wrote...

It would make me fear for the gaming industry because it would start a trend of developers releasing games without their actual endings and then making us wait months after their release to get the closure we were promised. Even worse, they'll make us pay for it.

Actually isn't there some scandal with Asura's Wrath related to that going on right now?


Prince of Persia did it back in 2009, and charged ten dollars for it...

xboxlive.ign.com/articles/959/959646p1.html

Released late last year, Prince of Persia was an outstanding reboot of Ubisoft's classic franchise. Prince of Persia Epilogue aims to extend the original adventure with two to three additional hours of gameplay while giving a "true" ending to the game -- though I kind of liked how things came to a close last December.

So that's Capcom and Ubisoft...
Final Fantasy XIII-2 ends with "To Be Continued" and developer promises of DLC...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 05 juin 2012 - 04:57 .


#270
liggy002

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Geneaux486 wrote...

Obviously it'd be a massive retcon, taking our current very real endings and making them fake, and I'd be a little nervous about it, but if anyone could pull it off, it'd be Bioware. Basically I'd give it a chance like I'd give any other Mass Effect DLC. If it's good, that's awesome, the endings that were okay to begin with get better. If it sucks, no big deal, Bioware went above and beyond in doing the EC and hearing us out, after all the work they put into the actual game, so as far as I'm concerned they've got nowhere to go but up.


Kudos to you sir for giving Bioware some credit.  We could definitely use some more optimism around here.

#271
DubVee12

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Well, if IT is true, it sucks for my friends who don't have xbox live as they won't be able to download the real ending to the game. Unless the EC is on a disc, which seems unlikely as I imagine the shipment of the discs would cost money that EA/Bioware is unwilling to lose.

I guess we'll see.

#272
zambot

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liggy002 wrote...

zambot wrote...

If IT is true, I'll watch the "real" ending on YouTube.


Assuming there's no gameplay involved, but what if there is?


Then I'll watch someone else play the "real" ending.  There's no **** way I'm going to boost my war assets back to 5k again by playing multiplayer just to redo the ending.

#273
Geneaux486

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DubVee12 wrote...

Well, if IT is true, it sucks for my friends who don't have xbox live as they won't be able to download the real ending to the game. Unless the EC is on a disc, which seems unlikely as I imagine the shipment of the discs would cost money that EA/Bioware is unwilling to lose.

I guess we'll see.


If the EC really does that much of an overhaul on the story I'm sure Bioware would find a way to get it to the offline players.

#274
liggy002

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DubVee12 wrote...

Well, if IT is true, it sucks for my friends who don't have xbox live as they won't be able to download the real ending to the game. Unless the EC is on a disc, which seems unlikely as I imagine the shipment of the discs would cost money that EA/Bioware is unwilling to lose.

I guess we'll see.


I'm not entirely sure how this works but couldn't you just let your friends use your internet to download it?

#275
liggy002

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zambot wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

zambot wrote...

If IT is true, I'll watch the "real" ending on YouTube.


Assuming there's no gameplay involved, but what if there is?


Then I'll watch someone else play the "real" ending.  There's no **** way I'm going to boost my war assets back to 5k again by playing multiplayer just to redo the ending.




I can't argue that.  You are essentially forced to play multiplayer to see the breath scene.  That was one of their decisions that I don't support even though I do greatly enjoy multiplayer.