283 réponses à ce sujet

[Erield]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

I'd be rather annoyed they spent time creating a 'fake' ending when they could've just made the 'real' ending instead and shipped the game complete.

Followed by the disappointment of realising they ended this trilogy with a glorified 'and it was all a dream'.

Confusion would follow - confusion as to why no-one at Bioware mentioned, or even hinted, at the existance of a 'real' ending.

This. 

I'd probably be done with anything EA-related, too.  If EC DLC goes over well and what we had was a fake ending all along, well, they'll start deciding that they can charge extra for "real-ending" DLC in the future.  You know, how they used to give away free extra bits of DLC, and now you have to pay to get parts of the story that was ripped out and sold as Day 1 DLC?  Yeah.  Exactly like that.  Sure, this time it's free--but what about the next Bioware ending?  The next ending to whatever other games they have?  If they think they can get away with releasing unfinished games, and making you pay to get the rest of it, they will  do this.

[jijeebo]

Erield wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

I'd be rather annoyed they spent time creating a 'fake' ending when they could've just made the 'real' ending instead and shipped the game complete.

Followed by the disappointment of realising they ended this trilogy with a glorified 'and it was all a dream'.

Confusion would follow - confusion as to why no-one at Bioware mentioned, or even hinted, at the existance of a 'real' ending.

This. 

I'd probably be done with anything EA-related, too.  If EC DLC goes over well and what we had was a fake ending all along, well, they'll start deciding that they can charge extra for "real-ending" DLC in the future.  You know, how they used to give away free extra bits of DLC, and now you have to pay to get parts of the story that was ripped out and sold as Day 1 DLC?  Yeah.  Exactly like that.  Sure, this time it's free--but what about the next Bioware ending?  The next ending to whatever other games they have?  If they think they can get away with releasing unfinished games, and making you pay to get the rest of it, they will  do this.

THIS.

Us letting Bioware omit endings from their games and lapping it up 5 months after we were meant to get it sets just as bad a precedent as Bioware changing the ending because the entitled fans demanded it.


And IT manages to do both of those things in one foul swoop because there will NEVER be complete agreement over which scenario is true.

Modifié par jijeebo, 04 juin 2012 - 01:36 .

[BatmanTurian]

Erield wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

I'd be rather annoyed they spent time creating a 'fake' ending when they could've just made the 'real' ending instead and shipped the game complete.

Followed by the disappointment of realising they ended this trilogy with a glorified 'and it was all a dream'.

Confusion would follow - confusion as to why no-one at Bioware mentioned, or even hinted, at the existance of a 'real' ending.

This. 

I'd probably be done with anything EA-related, too.  If EC DLC goes over well and what we had was a fake ending all along, well, they'll start deciding that they can charge extra for "real-ending" DLC in the future.  You know, how they used to give away free extra bits of DLC, and now you have to pay to get parts of the story that was ripped out and sold as Day 1 DLC?  Yeah.  Exactly like that.  Sure, this time it's free--but what about the next Bioware ending?  The next ending to whatever other games they have?  If they think they can get away with releasing unfinished games, and making you pay to get the rest of it, they will  do this.

This is the way the industry has been going for a few years now. If you're just waking up to it now, then you haven't been paying attention. As long as people will tolerate it, companies will do it, you know, like selling us water in a plastic bottle that you can get for free and filter yourself with the proper know-how. Whether you or I like it or not, this business model is the future.

Can't say I'm happy about it, but however many people we might muster to boycott this business practice, there will be people who will say " Whatever, I just want to play a video game." and go with it. It'll get worse when the next generation just comes to accept it, just as we've come to accept DRM because we have little recourse to do otherwise.

[SackofCat]

First, I would wonder if they made a rushed and cheap ending to sell a better one later, effectively raising the price of the game. Seems to be an unkind way to repay their fans' loyalty and love for the series. Much more so than selling the prothean squadmate.

Then I would wonder why they did it (other than by request). They would have subverted so much of the foundation of the story. It was very poorly foreshadowed, if at all and downright contradicted at times not to mention that it was unnecessary and poorly implemented. This would mean either bad storytelling or just fooling their audience for the sake of fooling their audience which is petty.

I have played the games more times than I care to mention, read all the books multiple times (read Deception only once), read all the comics and scoured the wiki countless times. This may be difficult to believe after the fact, but I had a particular interest in the effects of indoctrination and payed special attention to it. The writers were intentionally vague and only used it a few times. Mass Effect is generally considered to be of the science fiction genre, not a psychological thriller. Why would they change the genre at the end when they had been consistent beforehand?

If they include assets in action, more/better choices that are meaningful, more character interaction, a well written end of reaper threat and conclusion I may overlook their poor use of a plot device and enjoy it. Ideally it would be something that encouraged me to replay all of the Mass Effect games, rather than discouraging me. I would probably come to the forum to see the reaction of the smug and condescending people that implied that anyone who didn't accept their interpretation were either ignorant or stupid (there are probably only a few).

[eddieoctane]

Unholyknight800 wrote...

"Cool. Hope they implemented it correctly otherwise we have a problem."

Exactly. Though I will laugh histerically when someone inevitably rages should IT become fact.

[WillieStyle]

Bill Casey wrote...

IT is the most brilliant twist I've ever seen for anything... ever...

Bioware has literally indoctrinated people and have them fighting eachother instead of fighting the reapers...

^This!  The greatest thing about IT is how delightfully meta it is. It would be the greatest twist in video gaming history. Hell, it would be the greatest twist in Scifi history.  The negative responses in this thread sadden me. If that is how the majority of fans feel, then we're forever doomed to standard boss fight -> Victory Montage -> hero and the gang have drinks to celebrate endings.  

[OblivionDawn]

My reaction would be as follows:

"Man, it sucks that Bioware had to resort to a fanfic copout to finish their game, the Singleplayer is completely unfulfilling now."

[BatmanTurian]

WillieStyle wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

IT is the most brilliant twist I've ever seen for anything... ever...

Bioware has literally indoctrinated people and have them fighting eachother instead of fighting the reapers...

^This!  The greatest thing about IT is how delightfully meta it is. It would be the greatest twist in video gaming history. Hell, it would be the greatest twist in Scifi history.  The negative responses in this thread sadden me. If that is how the majority of fans feel, then we're forever doomed to standard boss fight -> Victory Montage -> hero and the gang have drinks to celebrate endings.  

Yeah, I've heard COD and Halo are popular...

[WillieStyle]

SackofCat wrote...

First, I would wonder if they made a rushed and cheap ending to sell a better one later, effectively raising the price of the game. Seems to be an unkind way to repay their fans' loyalty and love for the series. Much more so than selling the prothean squadmate. 

The EC is free. How would it constitute raising the price of the game?

SackofCat wrote..
I have played the games more times than I care to mention, read all the books multiple times (read Deception only once), read all the comics and scoured the wiki countless times. This may be difficult to believe after the fact, but I had a particular interest in the effects of indoctrination and payed special attention to it. The writers were intentionally vague and only used it a few times. Mass Effect is generally considered to be of the science fiction genre, not a psychological thriller. Why would they change the genre at the end when they had been consistent beforehand?
 

Total Recall says high. 

[Uncle Jo]

Bill Casey wrote...

Think about this for a second...
You are still playing the game right now...

Some of you are in the roles of the Illusive Man, believing utterly you can Control the Reapers and that you are not indoctrinated...

Still more play a similar role with Saren...

Some of us are Admiral Anderson, screaming "listen to yourself"...


It's the ultimate role playing experience...
And we are a part of it. Right now...

This. So much this.

[Erield]

WillieStyle wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

IT is the most brilliant twist I've ever seen for anything... ever...

Bioware has literally indoctrinated people and have them fighting eachother instead of fighting the reapers...

^This!  The greatest thing about IT is how delightfully meta it is. It would be the greatest twist in video gaming history. Hell, it would be the greatest twist in Scifi history.  The negative responses in this thread sadden me. If that is how the majority of fans feel, then we're forever doomed to standard boss fight -> Victory Montage -> hero and the gang have drinks to celebrate endings.  

"Was it all a dream?" isn't a brlliant twist.  Yes, yes, IT isn't "was it all a dream?" it's twisted that into its own twist--which just sounds confusing.  Regardless, it's not brilliant, it's not creative, and it's not unique.  The Wizard of Oz  did it long before there was a Bioware.  More recently, I've heard that a couple TV shows like The Sopranos utilized the same concept.

Let's just say that what Bill Casey is claiming is true, though.  How is it a good idea to get your fan-base to turn on each other?  There's, what, ~70% of the fans on BSN that believe in IT, and ~30% that don't?  How is it a good thing to be trolling those 30% with fake endings, etc.?  That's a good way to lose fans, not gain them.  Not to mention that there's a damn good question of which side is Indoctrinated: I firmly believe that the proponents of IT who cannot see any other possibility are the ones who were Indoctrinated.  You seem unable to grasp that Bioware are not geniuses, and what they did wasn't brilliant; it was just plain stupid.  (That's even if IT is true.)

[BatmanTurian]

OblivionDawn wrote...

My reaction would be as follows:

"Man, it sucks that Bioware had to resort to a fanfic copout to finish their game, the Singleplayer is completely unfulfilling now."

Fan fiction is a story generated inside another person's story universe created by a fan with new original characters interacting with canon characters or canon characters being fit into a new story. This is fan fiction

Fan fiction is not interpreting media, analyzing literary devices, or looking at an artisitic project with an eye for symbolism and metaphor. Please go take an Art, Lit, Writing, or Film class and stop using a false term just to describe something you dislike. It makes you look very ignorant.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 04 juin 2012 - 01:57 .

[BatmanTurian]

Erield wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

IT is the most brilliant twist I've ever seen for anything... ever...

Bioware has literally indoctrinated people and have them fighting eachother instead of fighting the reapers...

^This!  The greatest thing about IT is how delightfully meta it is. It would be the greatest twist in video gaming history. Hell, it would be the greatest twist in Scifi history.  The negative responses in this thread sadden me. If that is how the majority of fans feel, then we're forever doomed to standard boss fight -> Victory Montage -> hero and the gang have drinks to celebrate endings.  

"Was it all a dream?" isn't a brlliant twist.  Yes, yes, IT isn't "was it all a dream?" it's twisted that into its own twist--which just sounds confusing.  Regardless, it's not brilliant, it's not creative, and it's not unique.  The Wizard of Oz  did it long before there was a Bioware.  More recently, I've heard that a couple TV shows like The Sopranos utilized the same concept.

Let's just say that what Bill Casey is claiming is true, though.  How is it a good idea to get your fan-base to turn on each other?  There's, what, ~70% of the fans on BSN that believe in IT, and ~30% that don't?  How is it a good thing to be trolling those 30% with fake endings, etc.?  That's a good way to lose fans, not gain them.  Not to mention that there's a damn good question of which side is Indoctrinated: I firmly believe that the proponents of IT who cannot see any other possibility are the ones who were Indoctrinated.  You seem unable to grasp that Bioware are not geniuses, and what they did wasn't brilliant; it was just plain stupid.  (That's even if IT is true.)

For the last f@#$%ing time, Erield, It would not be the " All a Dream"  trope. It's A Battle at the Center of the Mind.
I've posted this once and two posters have reposted it twice. Stop calling it something it isn't.

[davishepard]

BatmanTurian wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

My reaction would be as follows:

"Man, it sucks that Bioware had to resort to a fanfic copout to finish their game, the Singleplayer is completely unfulfilling now."

Fan fiction is a story generated inside another person's story universe created by a fan with new original characters interacting with canon characters or canon characters being fit into a new story. This is fan fiction

Fan fiction is not interpreting media, analyzing literary devices, or looking at an artisitic project with an eye for symbolism and metaphor. Please go take an Art, Lit, Writing, or Film class and stop using a false term just to describe something you dislike. It makes you look very ignorant.

I call it fan fiction because is a fiction created by fans, and don't reflect the reality. So.

Modifié par davishepard, 04 juin 2012 - 02:03 .

[joshko]

If it were true it would be out by now.

[BatmanTurian]

davishepard wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

My reaction would be as follows:

"Man, it sucks that Bioware had to resort to a fanfic copout to finish their game, the Singleplayer is completely unfulfilling now."

Fan fiction is a story generated inside another person's story universe created by a fan with new original characters interacting with canon characters or canon characters being fit into a new story. This is fan fiction

Fan fiction is not interpreting media, analyzing literary devices, or looking at an artisitic project with an eye for symbolism and metaphor. Please go take an Art, Lit, Writing, or Film class and stop using a false term just to describe something you dislike. It makes you look very ignorant.

I call it fan fiction because is a fiction created by fans, and don't reflect the reality. So.

Then you obviously lack the intelligence to see the difference. Analyzing Moby Dick for symbolism and writing a fanfic about the X-Files are two different things. If you continue to say it is fan fiction, you ony serve to weaken your case by calling the opposite interpretation something it is not.

[Bill Casey]

WillieStyle wrote...

^This!  The greatest thing about IT is how delightfully meta it is.

[Uber Rod]

 I would be relived because that means that the horrible ending  is not real and that there would be a chance for a proper ending.

I would be happy for anything tha fixes the bad, bad ending that we are currently stuck with.

[davishepard]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Then you obviously lack the intelligence to see the difference. Analyzing Moby Dick for symbolism and writing a fanfic about the X-Files are two different things. If you continue to say it is fan fiction, you ony serve to weaken your case by calling the opposite interpretation something it is not.

I apprectiate your attempt to offend, but as I said, it is a fiction created by fans that refuse to accept the reality of the ME3 endings. Fan fiction, for short. That said, I don't expect that a person that believe in the said fiction understand what I said. Maybe when EC came out and it doesn't feature your dream ending, you will see.

Modifié par davishepard, 04 juin 2012 - 02:15 .

[Oni Changas]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

My first reaction would be the realization that Bioware terminated Mass Effect 3 without an ending.

Just like they released a game with day one on disc "dlc," had obvious implications of new dlc that somehow didn't make the final game, and how the game had some odd bugs upon release. Your argument would mean something if worse things weren't already happening with other games. I couldn't care less if the RGB were just a teaser for the real deal. I don't recognize it as such for an epic tale/franchise like Mass Effect. It's just there... in a dark, dark, corner.

[Alexius]

Relieved first because that would override the ****ty endings, then angry 'cause that'd mean the game didn't have a proper ending on purpose.

But then again, IT isn't true, just a coping method.

[Bill Casey]

davishepard wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Then you obviously lack the intelligence to see the difference. Analyzing Moby Dick for symbolism and writing a fanfic about the X-Files are two different things. If you continue to say it is fan fiction, you ony serve to weaken your case by calling the opposite interpretation something it is not.

I apprectiate your attempt to offend, but as I said, it is a fiction created by fans that refuse to accept the reality of the ME3 endings. Fan fiction, for short. That said, I don't expect that a person that believe in the said fiction understand what I said. Maybe when EC came out and it doesn't feature your dream ending, you will see.

Even if it's not true, it's not fan fiction...
It's art interpretation...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 04 juin 2012 - 02:20 .

[Tov01]

I would be rather disappointed in them for going this way.

[BatmanTurian]

davishepard wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Then you obviously lack the intelligence to see the difference. Analyzing Moby Dick for symbolism and writing a fanfic about the X-Files are two different things. If you continue to say it is fan fiction, you ony serve to weaken your case by calling the opposite interpretation something it is not.

I apprectiate your attempt to offend, but as I said, it is a fiction created by fans that refuse to accept the reality of the ME3 endings. Fan fiction, for short. That said, I don't expect that a person that believe in the said fiction understand what I said. Maybe when EC came out and it doesn't feature your dream ending, you will see.

No, you are basically telling a lie. We're talking about an interpretation of a story, not a story made up. You are being intellectually dishonest and you do your side of the aisle no favors by doing so. In fact, it makes it seem as if you haven't even graduated elementary school.

[p__q]

If IT were true I would probably just be hit by a wave of sheer disappointment, I hated the original ending at face value but I hold at least a little hope for the EC, to find out its secretly all a plot twist which I rate nearly as bad as the original ending we got would make my time waiting for the EC pointless and ruin any hope I have of actually enjoying the endings