44 réponses à ce sujet

[Happysin]

maikanix, there's not enough rolleyes for your ignorance.



falranth, rock on with your bad self.

[Noviere]

Billycraig wrote...

apologies

I'm not trying to be hateful...just not sure that any of these type mods should be on BioWare's webpage

Bioware put bisexual characters in their game... Why wouldn't they allow gay mods on their website?

[TheGreenLion]

falranth wrote...

TheGreenLion wrote...

Yes, you learn that word and the power it contains very early, that little two-letter word "No". But honestly, from my perspective that's how I feel. I suppose I'll just keep my opinions to myself from now on about gay men as there seems to be little tolerance for such terrible and hateful opinions as "not wanting them to hit on me cause I'm not gay." or "I can tolerate them" but not just freely accept them like any normal good hearted person would. Forgive me for not being an all-loving and accepting person, because I know you are.

I still stand by my thoughts on lesbians though....that will never change.

So... you expect others to accept your taste for lesbians out of your own sexual fantasies but you can't accept gays on the basis of their sexual preferences? Furthermore, you openly objectify lesbians who wouldn't want you, but cannot tolerate gay men expressing any interest towards you? And you ask others to accept you for not being an accepting person?
People aren't expecting you to be all-loving or all-accepting. It's just that you're a hypocrite.

Did I say that I expect people to like lesbians, no. I said that "I do" and I said I can tolerate gay men up to the point where they think I am somehow a potential target. I understand the need for fishing but I won't be the one on the end of the hook, period. No lesbian is going to come up to me with an offer sure, I wouldn't expect one to.

I don't want people to accept me, I'd rather have people take as much consideration into my opinion as some who says the exact opposite i.e. "I like gay guys"...nobody argues with that...why must you feel the need to rail out against my opinion so...sure it's trivial but I see no reason to put up a fuss if one hetero man says he doesn't like gay men exclusively, be offended if you like it's my truthful opinion.

[mj crom]

So, falranth, how is the recruiting going? Deep enough?

[Sensorie]

TheGreenLion wrote...

Personally I dislike homosexual men in particular (lesbians are okay! ) but I can tolerate their presence just fine, they better not even think of hitting on me though.

Dislike, but tolerate. On what basis? I certainly can be prejudiced at times, but I reflect and rationalise before I jump to discriminatory conclusions.

Even think of hitting on you? Now that's going a bit far don't you think? Would you accept a mere compliment to your general visual appearance?

[TheGreenLion]

Sensory wrote...

TheGreenLion wrote...

Personally I dislike homosexual men in particular (lesbians are okay! ) but I can tolerate their presence just fine, they better not even think of hitting on me though.

Dislike, but tolerate. On what basis? I certainly can be prejudiced at times, but I reflect and rationalise before I jump to discriminatory conclusions.

Even think of hitting on you? Now that's going a bit far don't you think? Would you accept a mere compliment to your general visual appearance?

I can tolerate a gay persons physical presence and I don't have trouble with general interaction and talking, that's not what gets me. I guess if anything it's the mannerisms and feminine...behavior for a lack of a better word, to me it just seems totally wonky for a guy to be girly. Hell I work at a lumber yard full of dirty minds, but at least I know they're joking about some of the crap they say and do.

Perhaps in my view I don't allow for an option where gay men understand that it's not my thing, and neither does my view include gay men who don't act feminine. I'm sure there's people out there that fit that description...I don't imagine I'd have problems associating in that arena. I guess you could say I'm a homophobe of sorts, and I think I put it better to the point this time: I don't like girly guys...in reflection that doesn't really include all gay men so I apologize for hurting yer feelers by acting like an ass and stereotyping like that.

My apologizing probably means squat anyhow, but take it as you will. 

[maikanix]

TheGreenLion wrote...

Yes, you learn that word and the power it contains very early, that little two-letter word "No". But honestly, from my perspective that's how I feel. I suppose I'll just keep my opinions to myself from now on about gay men as there seems to be little tolerance for such terrible and hateful opinions as "not wanting them to hit on me cause I'm not gay." or "I can tolerate them" but not just freely accept them like any normal good hearted person would. Forgive me for not being an all-loving and accepting person, because I know you are.

I still stand by my thoughts on lesbians though....that will never change.

But it IS hateful to "not want them to hit on you". It's not like you're broadcasting an "I'M NOT GAY" neon light. Though if you really want them not to hit on you, then I suggest you do so. Because it's the only way to make you seem not hateful. They'll hit on you, and then if you say you're not gay, they'll walk away. Imagine that. Expecting them to automatically know is insane.

Happysin wrote...

maikanix, there's not enough rolleyes for your ignorance.

Listen, whether you're a troll or a moron I've never been good at telling the difference. But if you're refering to the difference between the way things ARE in the world, and my opinions on the world, then sure. I completely understand that there is a difference. However, everything I said was idealistic. I know that people are stupid all across the board.

That women who are hit on get offended even though it's really a compliment, that idiots think homosexuals should automatically know they aren't gay and not hit on them.
*sigh*

and of course i like lesbians, but gah. I don't even know how to argue that. I was commenting on the fact that you said you dislike gay men, and like lesbians in the same sentence.  Saying that you were like every 16 year old boy who feels the same. The fact is, lesbians ARE gay.

[falranth]

TheGreenLion wrote...

Did I say that I expect people to like lesbians, no. I said that "I do" and I said I can tolerate gay men up to the point where they think I am somehow a potential target. I understand the need for fishing but I won't be the one on the end of the hook, period. No lesbian is going to come up to me with an offer sure, I wouldn't expect one to.

I don't want people to accept me, I'd rather have people take as much consideration into my opinion as some who says the exact opposite i.e. "I like gay guys"...nobody argues with that...why must you feel the need to rail out against my opinion so...sure it's trivial but I see no reason to put up a fuss if one hetero man says he doesn't like gay men exclusively, be offended if you like it's my truthful opinion.

Don't mistake my response as me taking a personal interest in what you think. I replied to you because this is a public, open conversation, and as such, I had the discursive interest in pointing out your hypocricy. It's hypocritical (gasp) to respond to others and then get all butt-hurt when others respond to you. I think you're just upset because, well, no one likes to acknowledge that they're a hypocrite (including myself, as I am one at times).

Many gay people do not assume that another guy is straight, and will only know you're not gay if you tell them so. Until then, consider any flirtations an "act of God," because that's how humans work. As a gay man, women (whom I have no interest in) assume I'm straight all the time (not to forget the rest of society doing it) and try to get with me. It certainly does get annoying, but I don't make it out to be some kind of unreasonable harassment. I just tell them I'm not interested.

Now, if a gay man persisted after you told him you were straight and/or not interested, then you have every right to get upset.

TheGreenLion wrote...

I can tolerate a gay persons physical presence and I don't have trouble with general interaction and talking, that's not what gets me. I guess if anything it's the mannerisms and feminine...behavior for a lack of a better word, to me it just seems totally wonky for a guy to be girly. Hell I work at a lumber yard full of dirty minds, but at least I know they're joking about some of the crap they say and do.

Perhaps in my view I don't allow for an option where gay men understand that it's not my thing, and neither does my view include gay men who don't act feminine. I'm sure there's people out there that fit that description...I don't imagine I'd have problems associating in that arena. I guess you could say I'm a homophobe of sorts, and I think I put it better to the point this time: I don't like girly guys...in reflection that doesn't really include all gay men so I apologize for hurting yer feelers by acting like an ass and stereotyping like that. 

My apologizing probably means squat anyhow, but take it as you will.

Are you kidding? I really appreciate it when people apologize for making stereotypical generalizations. So thanks for that.

If its any assurance, the majority of gay men are actually the average guy (including myself). The flaming queens are just the loudest, and believe it or not, a lot of gay men don't like the effeminacy either (including myself). Often these people are said to be "trying too hard."

In some cases, the gay men are also transvestites (drag queens) or transgender, or are doing it to get public attention (such as in pride parades) or to just be silly, but these cases are not typical.

[Darkmage187]

Honestly... it's a game mod. You have to choose to download them....

 Amen.  Freedom of choice ladies and gentlemen.  To each his/her own, etcetera, etcetera, ad nauseum.....puke.

Modifié par Darkmage187, 12 décembre 2009 - 09:33 .

[OneBadAssMother]

There's plenty of mods out there already, why complain about a few ******/bi-mods?

[Mutant Dwarf]

Though if you really want them not to hit on you, then I suggest you do so. Because it's the only way to make you seem not hateful. They'll hit on you, and then if you say you're not gay, they'll walk away. Imagine that. Expecting them to automatically know is insane.

I'd just like to jump in here and point out that this isn't neccessarily true. In my experience, and in the experience of a gay friend of mine, a lot of gay men will not stop simply because you claim to be straight. They see it as a challenge, and then just go at you even more. It's highly annoying, but also an approved of tactic in the gay community, because 'straight guys are just gay guys afraid to admit that they're gay'. I'm not saying every gay guy is like that - I'd be surprised if even a large (EDIT: minority, not majority) of them did - but it's at least commonplace - and that's according to a friend of mine active in the gay community, not me.

As to the actual subject of the thread:

I have about as much of a problem with gay-themed mods as I do with all mods specifically targeting sexuality. I dislike 'sexy clothes' mods in other games, and gay mods pretty much fall into the same category. I'd prefer it if all such things were stuck in an 'Adult' or 'Sexuality' section of the site so I can find them if I'm interested, but otherwise I don't need to be distracted by them. Even just a tag on the message header would be nice.

Now, this isn't to say I'm a prude or anything. I like my sex and porn just as much as anyone - I just prefer it to be around when I'm looking for it and to get out of my way when I'm not.

Modifié par Mutant Dwarf, 13 décembre 2009 - 10:40 .

[FollowTheGourd]

Mutant Dwarf wrote...
Now, this isn't to say I'm a prude or anything. I like my sex and porn just as much as anyone - I just prefer it to be around when I'm looking for it and to get out of my way when I'm not.

Arguably you could have a "gay mod" without it being all *that* explicitly sexual in nature - I don't know what the (two it was said?) gay mods are really about, but what's stopping somebody from building an "Allistar hand-holding mod". Bad example, but I'm just saying that in itself shouldn't relegate it to the adult section. Or even a not-way-too-explicit "romance mod" IMO (at least something a public library could put in its paperback section).

Modifié par FollowTheGourd, 13 décembre 2009 - 01:22 .

[Slezar de Fanel]

well, iam not gay, but i like zefran. This little leather fetish guy is "rediculously awesome" and it was cool to give him his leather booties. I like it, i dont object gay content, as long as iam not forced to let someone poke me up my arse in the game storywise. how about some friend for the old hermit in the brecilian forest. Or maybe he falls in love with the tree...... can be all fun

[Mutant Dwarf]

Arguably you could have a "gay mod" without it being all *that* explicitly sexual in nature - I don't know what the (two it was said?) gay mods are really about, but what's stopping somebody from building an "Allistar hand-holding mod". Bad example, but I'm just saying that in itself shouldn't relegate it to the adult section. Or even a not-way-too-explicit "romance mod" IMO (at least something a public library could put in its paperback section).

Sure, a 'gay Alistair mod' doesn't neccessarily mean its going to be explicit in its sexual detail. But it is explicitly about sexuality, and I just find that annoying when I'm not interested in that. At the very least, I'd like for such a mod (or any type of romance-oriented mod) to be clearly labeled as such - the Bond of Blood mod is a good example of a mod about sexuality that wasn't exactly clear on that being what it was about until recently. Such things are annoying.

[JJM152]

falranth wrote...

TheGreenLion wrote...

Yes, you learn that word and the power it contains very early, that little two-letter word "No". But honestly, from my perspective that's how I feel. I suppose I'll just keep my opinions to myself from now on about gay men as there seems to be little tolerance for such terrible and hateful opinions as "not wanting them to hit on me cause I'm not gay." or "I can tolerate them" but not just freely accept them like any normal good hearted person would. Forgive me for not being an all-loving and accepting person, because I know you are.

I still stand by my thoughts on lesbians though....that will never change.

So... you expect others to accept your taste for lesbians out of your own sexual fantasies but you can't accept gays on the basis of their sexual preferences? Furthermore, you openly objectify lesbians who wouldn't want you, but cannot tolerate gay men expressing any interest towards you? And you ask others to accept you for not being an accepting person?
People aren't expecting you to be all-loving or all-accepting. It's just that you're a hypocrite.

Hmm, now that I think about it - I sorta see TheGreenLion's point.

How come it's not "enough" for him to not talk trash about you, or to not interfere with your life, or to not want to take away your civil rights, but he has to accept on some fundemental level that you are cool and awesomely gay?

He's not your Dad you know. He doesn't have to accept you for being gay any more than I have to accept Jay Leno for not being funny. I see this kind of attitude quite frequently from a lot of gays and I can sort of understand why (acceptance is a hard thing to come by when you're a gay kid I guess), but you can't get actively outraged at people just because they don't like you, after all people can have their own feelings and opinions - even if you find them silly or hurtful, that's fair isn't it? It's I suppose when they act on those feelings in a way that is detremental to your well being that this becomes a big problem.

I don't think waging a quest to gain "love and acceptance" by everyone is anything but doomed to failure. It's far better to instead appeal to people's principles of fairness and equality and let them still have their prejudices.

Heck, we're all prejudiced in one way or another - it's how we act on these feelings that define our principles however.

[Thnap]

TheGreenLion wrote...

[...]

I can tolerate a gay persons physical presence and I don't have trouble with general interaction and talking, that's not what gets me. I guess if anything it's the mannerisms and feminine...behavior for a lack of a better word, to me it just seems totally wonky for a guy to be girly. Hell I work at a lumber yard full of dirty minds, but at least I know they're joking about some of the crap they say and do.

Perhaps in my view I don't allow for an option where gay men understand that it's not my thing, and neither does my view include gay men who don't act feminine. I'm sure there's people out there that fit that description...I don't imagine I'd have problems associating in that arena. I guess you could say I'm a homophobe of sorts, and I think I put it better to the point this time: I don't like girly guys...in reflection that doesn't really include all gay men so I apologize for hurting yer feelers by acting like an ass and stereotyping like that.

My apologizing probably means squat anyhow, but take it as you will. 

I'm an effeminite straight male, and I certainly have no trouble picking up women. Regardless of their sexuality. Where do I factor into this argument? xD

I personally find it refreshing that the Dragon Age community are not afraid to release mods featuring homosexuality, and to handle it in a mature way. It may have something to do with the M rating attached to the
product.

I work in a video game store, and I make a point of expressing the graphic nature of the content in a very explicit manner whenever a mother asks whether Dragon Age is suitable for their fourteen year old child. Just doing my part to keep immaturity out of the community.

[falranth]

JJM152 wrote...

Hmm, now that I think about it - I sorta see TheGreenLion's point.

How come it's not "enough" for him to not talk trash about you, or to not interfere with your life, or to not want to take away your civil rights, but he has to accept on some fundemental level that you are cool and awesomely gay?

He's not your Dad you know. He doesn't have to accept you for being gay any more than I have to accept Jay Leno for not being funny. I see this kind of attitude quite frequently from a lot of gays and I can sort of understand why (acceptance is a hard thing to come by when you're a gay kid I guess), but you can't get actively outraged at people just because they don't like you, after all people can have their own feelings and opinions - even if you find them silly or hurtful, that's fair isn't it? It's I suppose when they act on those feelings in a way that is detremental to your well being that this becomes a big problem.

I don't think waging a quest to gain "love and acceptance" by everyone is anything but doomed to failure. It's far better to instead appeal to people's principles of fairness and equality and let them still have their prejudices.

Heck, we're all prejudiced in one way or another - it's how we act on these feelings that define our principles however.

Y'know, to be honest, I really regret that I derailed the thread like this. But to wrap things up--you're right, to an extent. I did get upset and wen for the argumentative kill by ramming in TheGreenLion's hypocrisy. For all I know TheGreenLion is a world away and for what it matters, he doesn't seem to be anti-gay, just a bit homophobic--and even if he is anti-gay, then it wouldn't affect my life anyway. But then again, his comments (even though they were just comments) did kind of hurt.

I suppose what really got to me was the assertion that gay men should not flirt, and the threatening implication of statements like "they better not even think of hitting on me." I'm just reminded of the Matthew Shepard and the gay "panic" defense.

I tried to make the point that flirting comes in every human's sexual package, and even TheGreenLion said that he understands the need for "fishing"--but again he asserted that he would not be on the end of the hook and was not a "potential target" (makes us seem like sexual predators...). It didn't seem very fair considering that gay men have no idea beforehand that men such as TheGreenLion are not interested, and in the end the intimidating, unforgiving attitude contributes to an oppressive atmosphere. I can say that it can be really scary to even just talk to other men (not even to go as far as flirting) with the fear that some would resort to violence (as if stigmatization isn't bad enough) if they found out I was interested in them.

I understand that it's unwanted attention, but really--how hard is it to simply say "no?" I'm not trying to impose anything on TheGreenLion. I suppose I'm just making the point out of some kind of humanitarian interest. I just wish that people would think of how it makes others feel when they are not only forbidden from flirting (a normal thing to do for everyone else) but also threatened with repercussions if they were to do so. The pursuit of romance is part of the pursuit of happiness, right? Leave them the opportunity to at least try, and then calmly and peacefully let them know you're not interested. Everyone will be better off.

Now, I know some gay men can be persistent, as any man can be. Still, there are many ways to peacefully deal with it, such as maintaining distance, leaving, asking them to leave, asking others to intervene, and finally contacting the authorities if it's seriously sexual harassment. Please don't contribute to a discriminatory atmosphere by telling gays they can't flirt, and definitely do not threaten them.

[GuyArcher]

*shrug* You don't have to use the mod. Honestly, the fact that you would make a thread implying that bioware should ignore gay mods while saying you enjoy lesbianism is a bit confusing.



Being a gay male, I have zero interest in straight guys. In fact, it's a turnoff for me. However, short of asking, there's no way to know whether someone is straight or not. So, if I'm interested, I'll ask but I'm quick to walk away if he's not interested. What really gets me is the straight guys that hear you are gay and immediately think you want in their pants. Talk about egotistical.

[Astorax]

There's nothing wrong with it (gay mods).



I'm closing this thread down because it looks like everything that can be said on the subject has been said and really...it's a touchy subject for a lot of folks and I don't want it to get out of hand.



Much love to everyone.