170 réponses à ce sujet

[HermanGunther]

Gotta ask. Lets assume that Bioware is going all out for Extended Cut and we get our 16 unique endings based on the 16 current endings, plus a follow up several years later in the game universe on what the long term consquences for your actions are going to be. Now then, if that is true whose going to sit there and watch all of this and go, "How was I suppose to get all of that from the crap they gave me the first time?" The basis of this topic is as follows.

Will you feel patronized, "insulted as being stupid," if EC's content has expansion in creativity WAY beyond what any logical person would conclude based on current existing content. Like for example. You saw the Normandy crash land on another planet to which most people assumed that the crew would starve to death, but its actually Eden Prime 200 years in the future or something.

[xI extremist Ix]

16 endings was claimed by IGN, not Bioware.

[Veneke]

Whoa, dude. We don't have 16 current endings at the moment. I think we've got 5? Two of which are small variations on 1 ending, the Destroy one, and shouldn't really be counted.

But, to the point at hand - No. I probably wouldn't feel patronized if the ECs content was well beyond what we could logically speculate based on what we already saw. If they don't tie it to what we already saw then it'll be nothing short than an admission of failure on their part. That I can live with.

As is said though, the devil is in the details. If the EC gets this new content across in a patronizing way, then we're going to have problems. If its really bad, the uproar will be worse than the furor over the current endings. Honestly, I'm hoping the EC will be really good or really bad. If it's really good I can walk away from ME and consider it fully resolved. If it's really bad... there will not be enough popcorn in the universe.

[spirosz]

Can someone link me a video to these 16 endings? Curious.

[spirosz]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

spiros9110 wrote...

Can someone link me a video to these 16 endings? Curious.

They can't, because there aren't 16 endings. There are six.

The only real difference I noticed was Earth getting destroyed or whatever, just happened.  So... 4ish?  6 I guess, but bad/good look similar.  

[dirtdiver32318]

Six endings? Can someone tell me what the other endings are?

[Icinix]

dirtdiver32318 wrote...

Six endings? Can someone tell me what the other endings are?

Red Bad, Red Ok, Red Good
Blue Bad, Blue good.
Green.

[wizardryforever]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bioware was already patronizing in their announcement of the EC. They tried to make the whole thing out to be our fault for not understanding their "art."
The ending wasn't over anyone's head. It was just lousy writing filled with plotholes and inconsistencies. Trying to fill in those plot holes and explain away those inconsistencies without altering the ending is nonsensical.

I don't know what boards you've been reading, but around here there are all kinds of misconceptions about the details of the endings.  One of the most hilariously wrong says that the galaxy is destroyed because the mass relays broke apart, despite all the clear evidence to the contrary already in the game.  Sure, some of it is Bioware not explaining it well enough (synthesis), but there are also things that people just don't use their heads about, like the whole "starving turians and quarians" thing.

So it's partly the fans' fault, and partly Bioware's fault.

[tamperous]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bioware was already patronizing in their announcement of the EC. They tried to make the whole thing out to be our fault for not understanding their "art."
The ending wasn't over anyone's head. It was just lousy writing filled with plotholes and inconsistencies. Trying to fill in those plot holes and explain away those inconsistencies without altering the ending is nonsensical.

Yeah I agree. Manveer Heir had the audacity to compare their ending to the ending of the Great Gatsby on Twitter. He deleted the post.

I am still angry about that one because that happens to be my favorite novel of all time. Though the more I think of it, the more Bioware becomes Daisy Buchanan and the fans become Gatsby. Daisy was vain, vapid and undeserving as an object of Gatsby's affection.

[NoUserNameHere]

wizardryforever wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bioware was already patronizing in their announcement of the EC. They tried to make the whole thing out to be our fault for not understanding their "art."
The ending wasn't over anyone's head. It was just lousy writing filled with plotholes and inconsistencies. Trying to fill in those plot holes and explain away those inconsistencies without altering the ending is nonsensical.

I don't know what boards you've been reading, but around here there are all kinds of misconceptions about the details of the endings.  One of the most hilariously wrong says that the galaxy is destroyed because the mass relays broke apart, despite all the clear evidence to the contrary already in the game.  Sure, some of it is Bioware not explaining it well enough (synthesis), but there are also things that people just don't use their heads about, like the whole "starving turians and quarians" thing.

So it's partly the fans' fault, and partly Bioware's fault.

Starving Turians seems like a legitimate issue to me, especially if you killed the Quarians earlier. 

[dirtdiver32318]

Oh okay thanks I was like holy **** someone had different endings than me!!

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

tamperous wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bioware was already patronizing in their announcement of the EC. They tried to make the whole thing out to be our fault for not understanding their "art."
The ending wasn't over anyone's head. It was just lousy writing filled with plotholes and inconsistencies. Trying to fill in those plot holes and explain away those inconsistencies without altering the ending is nonsensical.

Yeah I agree. Manveer Heir had the audacity to compare their ending to the ending of the Great Gatsby on Twitter. He deleted the post.

I am still angry about that one because that happens to be my favorite novel of all time. Though the more I think of it, the more Bioware becomes Daisy Buchanan and the fans become Gatsby. Daisy was vain, vapid and undeserving as an object of Gatsby's affection.

EA is (Tom) Buchanan?

The comparisons write themselves. Lol.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 04 juin 2012 - 03:26 .

[tamperous]

CrustyBot wrote...

tamperous wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bioware was already patronizing in their announcement of the EC. They tried to make the whole thing out to be our fault for not understanding their "art."
The ending wasn't over anyone's head. It was just lousy writing filled with plotholes and inconsistencies. Trying to fill in those plot holes and explain away those inconsistencies without altering the ending is nonsensical.

Yeah I agree. Manveer Heir had the audacity to compare their ending to the ending of the Great Gatsby on Twitter. He deleted the post.

I am still angry about that one because that happens to be my favorite novel of all time. Though the more I think of it, the more Bioware becomes Daisy Buchanan and the fans become Gatsby. Daisy was vain, vapid and undeserving as an object of Gatsby's affection.

EA is (Tom) Buchanan?

The comparisons write themselves. Lol.

Tom and Daisy never loved each other, they married for money and social status. 

[theoldmanfromscene24]

HermanGunther wrote...

Gotta ask. Lets assume that Bioware is going all out for Extended Cut and we get our 16 unique endings based on the 16 current endings, plus a follow up several years later in the game universe on what the long term consquences for your actions are going to be. Now then, if that is true whose going to sit there and watch all of this and go, "How was I suppose to get all of that from the crap they gave me the first time?" The basis of this topic is as follows.

Will you feel patronized, "insulted as being stupid," if EC's content has expansion in creativity WAY beyond what any logical person would conclude based on current existing content. Like for example. You saw the Normandy crash land on another planet to which most people assumed that the crew would starve to death, but its actually Eden Prime 200 years in the future or something.

The impression I get from BW is that they think that they made a good ending as it stands. EC will try to convince us of the same. Don't look too much into their words.

They've stated that they believe in the ending, but that EC will give perspective and clarification. So look for some dialogue changes, before and after the jump to the citadel. What they want to do is make clear why each choice is a proper final choice. They may alter each choice slightly, (and hopefully bring a greater importance to war assets) but mostly they just want to give perspective. I would expect the opportunity to talk back to starchild (at least once) and at least one left hand dialogue choice opportunity. Aside from that, expect changes to the Normandy scene. We'll finally know why Joker split and if there's a future on the jungle planet.

If we're lucky we'll get a glimpse of where the galaxy goes from here. There's also been a hint given out that we might actually get animation of our war assets fighting on the ground. Don't expect anything revolutionary, story wise.

[wizardryforever]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bioware was already patronizing in their announcement of the EC. They tried to make the whole thing out to be our fault for not understanding their "art."
The ending wasn't over anyone's head. It was just lousy writing filled with plotholes and inconsistencies. Trying to fill in those plot holes and explain away those inconsistencies without altering the ending is nonsensical.

I don't know what boards you've been reading, but around here there are all kinds of misconceptions about the details of the endings.  One of the most hilariously wrong says that the galaxy is destroyed because the mass relays broke apart, despite all the clear evidence to the contrary already in the game.  Sure, some of it is Bioware not explaining it well enough (synthesis), but there are also things that people just don't use their heads about, like the whole "starving turians and quarians" thing.

So it's partly the fans' fault, and partly Bioware's fault.

Starving Turians seems like a legitimate issue to me, especially if you killed the Quarians earlier. 

That's why I included the "and quarians" bit.  The quarians have liveships, the main source of all of their food for the last 300 years, in the Sol system with the rest of the migrant fleet.  They should be able to supply the remaining turian and quarian forces with food just fine.  Though if the quarians are dead, then yes, that sucks.

As for the actual topic, I think that it's inevitable that some people take the EC as being patronizing.  These people are not going to be satisfied no matter what Bioware does though.  Even if Bioware gave in to all of their ridiculously unrealistic demands, they'd say that it should have been that way all along.  It may end up being patronizing for some, but for others it may end up clearing up any confusion they may have had about certain things.

[Palidane]

wizardryforever, do you like the ending?

[Veneke]

wizardryforever wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bioware was already patronizing in their announcement of the EC. They tried to make the whole thing out to be our fault for not understanding their "art."
The ending wasn't over anyone's head. It was just lousy writing filled with plotholes and inconsistencies. Trying to fill in those plot holes and explain away those inconsistencies without altering the ending is nonsensical.

I don't know what boards you've been reading, but around here there are all kinds of misconceptions about the details of the endings.  One of the most hilariously wrong says that the galaxy is destroyed because the mass relays broke apart, despite all the clear evidence to the contrary already in the game.  Sure, some of it is Bioware not explaining it well enough (synthesis), but there are also things that people just don't use their heads about, like the whole "starving turians and quarians" thing.

So it's partly the fans' fault, and partly Bioware's fault.

No. It is not the fans' fault, in any measure, for not filling in the plotholes they left us with the ending.

There's no 'clear evidence' that the destruction of the mass relays didn't destroy the entire universe except for the Normandy crash scene which frankly doesn't prove a single thing other than a single garden planet, seemingly unpopulated, survived the explosions. Indeed the galaxy map scene at the end of the game makes it pretty clear that some kind of massive explosion happened throughout the galaxy upon the destruction of each of the mass effect relays. Or was that just meant to be a cool cutscene?

While I agree that I don't think that we were meant to arrive at that conclusion it's clearly an error in how Bioware told the ending of the story, not in fans simply jumping to erroneous conclusions. That (and similar questions) are not misconceptions nor the fault of the fans by any stretch of the imagination. If you're going to alter the lore upon which the players believe the ingame universe is operating then you need to say why it differs in this instance and show how it differs. As it stands, that galaxy map travelling explosion scene plus Joker's attempt to outrun the blast makes it pretty clear that the entire universe is destroyed. If that isn't the case then it's simply poor storytelling and not 'the fans' fault', partly or otherwise.

[wizardryforever]

Palidane wrote...

wizardryforever, do you like the ending?

I don't know why people keep asking me this.  My personal opinion on the ending does not enter into my argument, and if it does, I make sure that you know that it is just my opinion.

For what it's worth, no, I don't like it.  Largely because there are so many things that are left unexplained, and too few of our earlier decisions have an effect.  I'd also like to know what happens to the galaxy and Shepard's personal friends before the credits roll.  Luckily for me, these are the kinds of things that the EC is likely to address.

I often end up defending the ending, despite my dislike of it, simply to correct some misconceptions.  Or at least to provide an alternative viewpoint.  "Devil's advocate," as it were.