170 réponses à ce sujet

[Faded_Jeans]

I'm finally replaying the game. It really is wonderful. Until you get to the citadel at the end.

I'm still boggled. It's like they outsourced it or something. The rest of the game is so magnificent.

Not sure if the EC will be patronizing or not.  Sorta don't even want to download it.  How can you fix that? 

I think I'll just have to learn to forgive.

Will wait and see.

Modifié par Faded_Jeans, 04 juin 2012 - 03:33 .

[AdamJenson]

In answer to the OP/thread title: yes

[someone else]

BrotherWarth wrote...

xI extremist Ix wrote...

16 endings was claimed by IGN, not Bioware.

Correct. What Bioware said was "near countless" endings.

^yeah

Modifié par someone else, 04 juin 2012 - 04:00 .

[AdamJenson]

someone else wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

xI extremist Ix wrote...

16 endings was claimed by IGN, not Bioware.

Correct. What Bioware said was "near countless" endings.

^yeah

Maybe there were literally countless endings but we could not SEE them.  See, we only see in a fairly narrow band of the the electromagnetic spectrum (the 'visible spectrum').  Perhaps there are a bazillion gillion endings but the colors used fell outside the visible spectrum so we just couldn't see them.  
 
I want to see the ending that emits in the x-ray freq range.

[AlanC9]

aj2070 wrote...

Arrival and the Mass Effect 3 Codex both establish that destroying a relay and releasing (or as the codex entry says), liberating that much energy will have adverse affects on terrestrial planets in the star system the relay is located in (paraphrase of the codex entry).

Sure, but using the Crucible doesn't simply release that energy. It directs the energy and uses it to do stuff. Unless you have very low EMS in which case you really do blow up Earth, IIRC.

[AdamJenson]

AlanC9 wrote...

aj2070 wrote...

Arrival and the Mass Effect 3 Codex both establish that destroying a relay and releasing (or as the codex entry says), liberating that much energy will have adverse affects on terrestrial planets in the star system the relay is located in (paraphrase of the codex entry).

Sure, but using the Crucible doesn't simply release that energy. It directs the energy and uses it to do stuff. Unless you have very low EMS in which case you really do blow up Earth, IIRC.

Shorter you: the crucible is magic. 

[Dezerte]

They've been pretty patronizing about the ending debacle so far, so I'm expecting the same in EC.

[wizardryforever]

eveynameiwantisfekintaken wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bioware was already patronizing in their announcement of the EC. They tried to make the whole thing out to be our fault for not understanding their "art."
The ending wasn't over anyone's head. It was just lousy writing filled with plotholes and inconsistencies. Trying to fill in those plot holes and explain away those inconsistencies without altering the ending is nonsensical.

I don't know what boards you've been reading, but around here there are all kinds of misconceptions about the details of the endings.  One of the most hilariously wrong says that the galaxy is destroyed because the mass relays broke apart, despite all the clear evidence to the contrary already in the game.  Sure, some of it is Bioware not explaining it well enough (synthesis), but there are also things that people just don't use their heads about, like the whole "starving turians and quarians" thing.

So it's partly the fans' fault, and partly Bioware's fault.

No its entirley Biowares fault. If they have to come back and explain how the narative concludes rather than the narative itself explaining how it ends, its an epic fail.

The actual game narative should be my sole source of understanding the conclusion of Mass Effect, not Twitter, not facebook, not aps, not the forums and certainly not an Extended Cut.

Simply put the ending is lazy, poorly written and certainly not artistic because to be frank it doesnt contain a single original idea. Its almost akin to making a photocopy of the mona lisa and then trying to pass it of as original art in an art gallery, and then claiming its someone elses fault we dont get that its art.

I dont think the EC will be patronizing, it would be an insane direction to take if it was. They would be better of putting the shutters down and sticking a closed sign on the door if they went in this direction.

I just feel its a shame we got to the point that an EC was needed. This series deserved more than the lackluster, lazy confusing, tripe of an ending it actually got.

Was it poorly explained?  Sure, but that does not mean that the fans are off the hook for jumping to ridiculous conclusions.  It's like they didn't even try to figure it out, and instead just automatically hate it because they didn't understand it right away.

And I'm not saying that the ending is deep art or anything.  The art angle is not one that I used simply because it is so pretentious.  People are capable of understanding it, at least parts of it, already.  They would rather just rail against it than actually think.  Again, it is partially Bioware's fault.  But you can't realistically deny that a lot of people simply don't think about what it means, and instead just rant about a completely wrong conclusion that they jumped to.

It's kind of like when you mishear someone, and it sounds like they said something that made absolutely no sense.  Rather than accept that that person is gibbering, you figure that they must have said something else, and then realize what it must have been.  It's partially that person's fault for not speaking up, but if you jump to conclusions about what you misheard, then it's partially your fault too.

[AlanC9]

someone else wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

xI extremist Ix wrote...

16 endings was claimed by IGN, not Bioware.

Correct. What Bioware said was "near countless" endings.

^yeah

Well, here's how someone could get to "near countless."

As Icinix says, there are six primary endings.

There are three primary outcomes on Rannoch. Two of the choices become identical if you pick red in the endgame. That gets us to 15 endings.

Two primary outcomes on Tuchanka. 15 x 2 = 30.

So we're at 30 different end-states from only the major decisions. We can get to even more end states if we get into, for instance, different states of krogan leadership (Wrex, Wreav, Eve, etc.)

I wouldn't count endings this way myself. But I don't really have a good way to determine what counts as an ending. Did ME2 have two endings, or many? How many endings does DA:O have?

[AlanC9]

AdamJenson wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

aj2070 wrote...

Arrival and the Mass Effect 3 Codex both establish that destroying a relay and releasing (or as the codex entry says), liberating that much energy will have adverse affects on terrestrial planets in the star system the relay is located in (paraphrase of the codex entry).

Sure, but using the Crucible doesn't simply release that energy. It directs the energy and uses it to do stuff. Unless you have very low EMS in which case you really do blow up Earth, IIRC.

Shorter you: the crucible is magic. 

Sure. Clarke's Third Law applies.

[wizardryforever]

BrotherWarth wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

That's why I included the "and quarians" bit.  The quarians have liveships, the main source of all of their food for the last 300 years, in the Sol system with the rest of the migrant fleet.  They should be able to supply the remaining turian and quarian forces with food just fine.  Though if the quarians are dead, then yes, that sucks

The wave emitted from the Citadel seemingly destroys ships(possibly from the on-board FTL systems being based on Reaper tech) so the the liveships would crash or just be stranded, powerless, in space.

Where exactly did you get that idea?  I don't think any of the dialogue or cutscenes imply that in the slightest.  The Catalyst says only that synthetic life (including Geth) get destroyed, and only in the destroy ending.  No information is given that indicates it would affect non-sentient equipment or tech, and it is never implied that anything other than the relays gets destroyed in the other endings.  It's kind of a baseless assumption.

[wizardryforever]

BrotherWarth wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Veneke wrote...

You have any idea when or where that 'grandfather' scene takes place?

You're confusing the explosion of the Citadel with that of the Mass Relays. The one that hits the people on earth is from the Citadel. They're /two/ different explosions. Here, watch:

Does it matter?  No galaxy = no grandfather scene.  Since we have a grandfather scene, there must be a galaxy.

And you know this how?  The cutscene does a somewhat poor job of showing it, but it seems pretty clear that it was meant to be the Crucible shockwave, and not relay explosions.  Aren't they different colors depending on the ending?  That seems like a pretty big clue.  Anyway, even if it was truly ambiguous, who actually goes with what makes less sense as what actually happened?  From a purely meta standpoint, why would Bioware even bother with three choices if they all destroyed the galaxy?  Answer: they wouldn't.  That's not what happened.

Like I already pointed out earlier, no one is saying the galaxy is destroyed by the exploding relays, only that the exploding relays should destroy the galaxy since Arrival established that an exploding relay causes enough destruction to wipe out an entire system. 

Bull.  I've seen people make that claim with my own eyes.  I've even seen whole threads devoted to it!

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

wizardryforever wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

That's why I included the "and quarians" bit.  The quarians have liveships, the main source of all of their food for the last 300 years, in the Sol system with the rest of the migrant fleet.  They should be able to supply the remaining turian and quarian forces with food just fine.  Though if the quarians are dead, then yes, that sucks

The wave emitted from the Citadel seemingly destroys ships(possibly from the on-board FTL systems being based on Reaper tech) so the the liveships would crash or just be stranded, powerless, in space.

Where exactly did you get that idea?  I don't think any of the dialogue or cutscenes imply that in the slightest.  The Catalyst says only that synthetic life (including Geth) get destroyed, and only in the destroy ending.  No information is given that indicates it would affect non-sentient equipment or tech, and it is never implied that anything other than the relays gets destroyed in the other endings.  It's kind of a baseless assumption.

Not really. Doesn't the cutscene of the Normandy flying away show it breaking up as the energy bubble hits it?

[wizardryforever]

Shinian2 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

That's why I included the "and quarians" bit.  The quarians have liveships, the main source of all of their food for the last 300 years, in the Sol system with the rest of the migrant fleet.  They should be able to supply the remaining turian and quarian forces with food just fine.  Though if the quarians are dead, then yes, that sucks

The wave emitted from the Citadel seemingly destroys ships(possibly from the on-board FTL systems being based on Reaper tech) so the the liveships would crash or just be stranded, powerless, in space.

Where exactly did you get that idea?  I don't think any of the dialogue or cutscenes imply that in the slightest.  The Catalyst says only that synthetic life (including Geth) get destroyed, and only in the destroy ending.  No information is given that indicates it would affect non-sentient equipment or tech, and it is never implied that anything other than the relays gets destroyed in the other endings.  It's kind of a baseless assumption.

Not really. Doesn't the cutscene of the Normandy flying away show it breaking up as the energy bubble hits it?

The Normandy is also nearly weightless and moving many times faster than the speed of light.  Anything that were to hit it would likely cause that same thing.  It's actually pretty amazing that Joker was able to keep the ship largely intact.

Taking one ship in extremely unusual circumstances and applying what happens to it to all the other ships in the galaxy is what makes it a baseless assumption.

[Abraham_uk]

Too early to say.

Yes it is! Please stop reviewing what hasn't been made yet!


Here is a different approach you could have taken.



What choices would make Extended Cut patronising?

Not only is it a question that we can answer.
It could lead to helpful feedback for the developers.

[RAF1940]

Dezman8 wrote...

They've been pretty patronizing about the ending debacle so far, so I'm expecting the same in EC.

Unfortunately.

[Abraham_uk]

RAF1940 wrote...

Dezman8 wrote...

They've been pretty patronizing about the ending debacle so far, so I'm expecting the same in EC.

Unfortunately.

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be awkward. I am just a little confused.


How have "they" been patronizing?

I asking for two things:

What do you personally consider to be patronising? (believe it or not this is highly subjective)
Do you have any quotes from the developers that support this statement. (I assume that is the "they" you're refeering to)

[Dezerte]

Abraham_uk wrote...

RAF1940 wrote...

Dezman8 wrote...

They've been pretty patronizing about the ending debacle so far, so I'm expecting the same in EC.

Unfortunately.

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be awkward. I am just a little confused.


How have "they" been patronizing?

I asking for two things:

What do you personally consider to be patronising? (believe it or not this is highly subjective)
Do you have any quotes from the developers that support this statement. (I assume that is the "they" you're refeering to)

* They defended the ending with "artistic integrity", what about your personal integrity & your fans?
(source can be found at CEO's statement & numerous forum posts)
* They said they had no idea people would respond like this, yeah right.
(PAX)
* They've specifically said that EC will give us more clarification, we were just too dumb to realize what a masterpiece the ending was. Obviously.
(ME website)

Those are the key points I think.

Modifié par Dezman8, 04 juin 2012 - 08:19 .

[antares_sublight]

If the EC is simply the last 10 minutes of ME3 repeated, but just rrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaallllllllyyyyyyy ssssssssslllllllllllllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwww so us morons can "get it" this time, then yes, I'd feel it was patronizing.

[Robhuzz]

AdamJenson wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

aj2070 wrote...

Arrival and the Mass Effect 3 Codex both establish that destroying a relay and releasing (or as the codex entry says), liberating that much energy will have adverse affects on terrestrial planets in the star system the relay is located in (paraphrase of the codex entry).

Sure, but using the Crucible doesn't simply release that energy. It directs the energy and uses it to do stuff. Unless you have very low EMS in which case you really do blow up Earth, IIRC.

Shorter you: the crucible is magic. 

And on higher EMS it's some kind of SPECIAL magic that prevents the relays from blowing up as established in the lore.

Thinking about it makes me facepalm...

Modifié par Robhuzz, 04 juin 2012 - 08:37 .

[covertdrizzt]

To Op: I won't feel insulted because, you can't conclude much from the current endings. I will be happy to find out what happens. As we've seen on this forum, people can imagine just about anything based on the current ending.

[Pottumuusi]

Assuredly.