496 réponses à ce sujet

[Leafs43]

xsdob wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

This is the thought process of the IT hardline believer,



Where t=truth, and v=everyone who doesn't agree being wrong, and finally equaling to R(t)= I am automatically right.

You're more than welcome to come up with your own theory.

But it is going to be put through the same review IT has received.  

And if it can't stand up logically, well you're SOL now ain't ya?

I do have my own theory, it's called shepard stopped the reapers theory, and it states that shepard stoped the reapers and brought their genocidal cycle to an end. And my evidence is the ending dlc screen which states in plain to understand text that shepard stopped the reapers.

So your evidence is a DLC advertisement.


Man, if everyone believed 100% what advertisements told them....I'd be a rich man right now.

[RebelReya]

Leafs43 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

This is the thought process of the IT hardline believer,



Where t=truth, and v=everyone who doesn't agree being wrong, and finally equaling to R(t)= I am automatically right.

You're more than welcome to come up with your own theory.

But it is going to be put through the same review IT has received.  

And if it can't stand up logically, well you're SOL now ain't ya?



People have been trying to pick apart IT ever since it was theorized.  And guess what, no one has been able to disprove it.

I have a theory, it's RIGHT HERE. PLEASE!! Tell me what you think! Reveiw the heck out of it!!

Modifié par RebelReya, 04 juin 2012 - 05:54 .

[Ageless Face]

Leafs43 wrote...


It's not a room.


It's in space on the outside of the citadel.

If it's outside of the Citadel, then why are we even arguing?

[killage_wizard]

RebelReya wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

Yes, but then they sold us a game without an end, and your choice doesn't matter.
And then why are their 3 choices, and not just 2?

The choices don't matter now.  No matter what you choose the you get a colored energy wave, the relays are destroyed (even in control the relays are destroyed), the fleet will starve to death, for some reason the normandy crash lands on a random planet, and Buzz Aldrin says he forgot the details.

No, I really don't think that's the case. (If your interested in what I think, check out the link in my sig.) But That's exactly how alot of IT carries itself. Even in the first post of this thread we are presented with a fake choice. Accept  ' IT control ' or have a slightly less awful ending. And that's bull. IT is not the ONLY way this could play out.

I read it, and that what you think is plausible too.  But even if what you say is true, the endings still don't have any real difference to them as far as where things end up.  No matter what you do there is still a colored wave, the planet, etc. 

Thank you for checking it out! But did you read the whole thing? Because the part about all of that taking place in the VR, and not the phycial world is kinda the point. We see their codes destoryed, not the structures themsleves. That's why the stars don't go Nova, they why they can be fixed, and why the Geth, who have their own consesus, should be fine. It's why the N7 scene (where the reapers shut own, not explode) was FILMED not animated.

So the Normandy crash is in the consensus too?  Because its the same planet as the Buzz Aldrin kid blue sky, and the only reason for them to be crashing would be the exploding relay.  Also I am not sure what you mean by filmed.  There are no live action cut scenes in the game.  Everything is animated.

[Leafs43]

HagarIshay wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


It's not a room.


It's in space on the outside of the citadel.

If it's outside of the Citadel, then why are we even arguing?

If you don't know it's not on the outside of the citadel.....it's amazing that I even argued with you in the first place because you couldn't even take 2 seconds to look around and thusly probably have no idea what you are talking about.

[DieHigh2012]

killage_wizard wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

I wish IT was real, but it obviously is not.

If it were true it *would* have been finished before the game shipped, and it *would* have been released already.

Bioware would have released it as soon as they saw the gigantic backlash wave crashing down on their heads.

Really?  Because Bioware hasn't denied it, and they have been asked.  And if they wanted the "true ending" to be a DLC add on it would not have necessarily been finished.

It's bad business. EA can be accused of many things but being bad at business is not one of them.

Bioware has not denied it because of the "much speculation" stance they took early on. It's a great idea and I tip my hat to the guys that thought it up, but it's just not possible that it's true at this late a date.

EA would have forced them to release it or to tell fans that the real ending is coming soon as soon as their stocks took a hit.

EA got named the worse comapny in the U.S.  They are the poster child for bad business.

If that were true then EA would have no investors. We the gaming public don't like them, but they make tons and tons of money. They are not a well liked company, but a company that makes money none the less

I don't like them ether, but until all the people that play games stop buying their games, we are stuck with them. Because they keep making money and investors like that.

[Peranor]

Leafs43 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


Maybe because:


*Snip*


Nobody would survive that.

Good question.

There is a theory that all of the interaction with the catalyst happned on the crucible. But without any theories and only a spectulation on my part.... 

Shepard was on a part of the citadel that was not destroyed. The catalyst would have build the place he stayed in very well protected. Even that was barely enough and the place was rubble. But the protection was enough for Shepard to survive.

If that is not true -and if the catalyst  was smart enough, it is- then that is a major point to IT. Or the "bad writing with huge plotholes" theory.

Shepard was right smack dab in the middle of:




Not on some other part of the citadel.  That is irrefutable evidence.

Ah, yes. This thing is what fascinates me most about the destroy ending and the "Shepard lives" scene.

I would like to provide the picture below for some added perspective.




How does one survive something like that? And if by some divine intervention you do not get vaporized by the explosion itself you also have to survive getting propelled in to space and the following the descent to earth and hitting the ground at terminal velocity. And this time without any armor to talk about.
(And lets know forget about the huge explosion that Shepard walked right in to just moments before when he shot the tube/pipe).

Modifié par anorling, 04 juin 2012 - 06:00 .

[killage_wizard]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

I wish IT was real, but it obviously is not.

If it were true it *would* have been finished before the game shipped, and it *would* have been released already.

Bioware would have released it as soon as they saw the gigantic backlash wave crashing down on their heads.

Really?  Because Bioware hasn't denied it, and they have been asked.  And if they wanted the "true ending" to be a DLC add on it would not have necessarily been finished.

It's bad business. EA can be accused of many things but being bad at business is not one of them.

Bioware has not denied it because of the "much speculation" stance they took early on. It's a great idea and I tip my hat to the guys that thought it up, but it's just not possible that it's true at this late a date.

EA would have forced them to release it or to tell fans that the real ending is coming soon as soon as their stocks took a hit.

EA got named the worse comapny in the U.S.  They are the poster child for bad business.

If that were true then EA would have no investors. We the gaming public don't like them, but they make tons and tons of money. They are not a well liked company, but a company that makes money none the less

I don't like them ether, but until all the people that play games stop buying their games, we are stuck with them. Because they keep making money and investors like that.

and if they release a true ending dlc for 10 bucks a ton of people would buy it.   far more than would actually boycott them for doing it.

[Leafs43]

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

This is the thought process of the IT hardline believer,



Where t=truth, and v=everyone who doesn't agree being wrong, and finally equaling to R(t)= I am automatically right.

You're more than welcome to come up with your own theory.

But it is going to be put through the same review IT has received.  

And if it can't stand up logically, well you're SOL now ain't ya?



People have been trying to pick apart IT ever since it was theorized.  And guess what, no one has been able to disprove it.

I have a theory, it's RIGHT HERE. PLEASE!! Tell me what you think! Reveiw the heck out of it!!

You do realize that what you are describing is pretty much just a slightly different version of IT and just making a different interpretation out of the "visions" you see when you choose, right?

[RebelReya]

killage_wizard wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

Yes, but then they sold us a game without an end, and your choice doesn't matter.
And then why are their 3 choices, and not just 2?

The choices don't matter now.  No matter what you choose the you get a colored energy wave, the relays are destroyed (even in control the relays are destroyed), the fleet will starve to death, for some reason the normandy crash lands on a random planet, and Buzz Aldrin says he forgot the details.

No, I really don't think that's the case. (If your interested in what I think, check out the link in my sig.) But That's exactly how alot of IT carries itself. Even in the first post of this thread we are presented with a fake choice. Accept  ' IT control ' or have a slightly less awful ending. And that's bull. IT is not the ONLY way this could play out.

I read it, and that what you think is plausible too.  But even if what you say is true, the endings still don't have any real difference to them as far as where things end up.  No matter what you do there is still a colored wave, the planet, etc. 

Thank you for checking it out! But did you read the whole thing? Because the part about all of that taking place in the VR, and not the phycial world is kinda the point. We see their codes destoryed, not the structures themsleves. That's why the stars don't go Nova, they why they can be fixed, and why the Geth, who have their own consesus, should be fine. It's why the N7 scene (where the reapers shut own, not explode) was FILMED not animated.

So the Normandy crash is in the consensus too?  Because its the same planet as the Buzz Aldrin kid blue sky, and the only reason for them to be crashing would be the exploding relay.  Also I am not sure what you mean by filmed.  There are no live action cut scenes in the game.  Everything is animated.

I'll check again, but I'm pretty sure those scenes were not animated.
The Normady has reaper tech, the IFF, and so does EDI. That connects it to the consesus, but only part of it. That's why we don't see the Normandy explode, we see it shut down when the magical wave hits it.

Modifié par RebelReya, 04 juin 2012 - 06:04 .

[xsdob]

Leafs43 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

This is the thought process of the IT hardline believer,



Where t=truth, and v=everyone who doesn't agree being wrong, and finally equaling to R(t)= I am automatically right.

You're more than welcome to come up with your own theory.

But it is going to be put through the same review IT has received.  

And if it can't stand up logically, well you're SOL now ain't ya?

I do have my own theory, it's called shepard stopped the reapers theory, and it states that shepard stoped the reapers and brought their genocidal cycle to an end. And my evidence is the ending dlc screen which states in plain to understand text that shepard stopped the reapers.

So your evidence is a DLC advertisement.


Man, if everyone believed 100% what advertisements told them....I'd be a rich man right now.

It's more like a comming soon advertsiment in a movie theater, and I tend to belive that when the theaters advertise that a movie is comming, that it's going to be arriving at a certain point in time.

And the best part about my theory is that it doesn't take a bloated 20 minutes or more youtube vid to explain.

[DieHigh2012]

killage_wizard wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

I wish IT was real, but it obviously is not.

If it were true it *would* have been finished before the game shipped, and it *would* have been released already.

Bioware would have released it as soon as they saw the gigantic backlash wave crashing down on their heads.

Really?  Because Bioware hasn't denied it, and they have been asked.  And if they wanted the "true ending" to be a DLC add on it would not have necessarily been finished.

It's bad business. EA can be accused of many things but being bad at business is not one of them.

Bioware has not denied it because of the "much speculation" stance they took early on. It's a great idea and I tip my hat to the guys that thought it up, but it's just not possible that it's true at this late a date.

EA would have forced them to release it or to tell fans that the real ending is coming soon as soon as their stocks took a hit.

EA got named the worse comapny in the U.S.  They are the poster child for bad business.

If that were true then EA would have no investors. We the gaming public don't like them, but they make tons and tons of money. They are not a well liked company, but a company that makes money none the less

I don't like them ether, but until all the people that play games stop buying their games, we are stuck with them. Because they keep making money and investors like that.

and if they release a true ending dlc for 10 bucks a ton of people would buy it.   far more than would actually boycott them for doing it.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Could you explain please?

[RebelReya]

Leafs43 wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

This is the thought process of the IT hardline believer,



Where t=truth, and v=everyone who doesn't agree being wrong, and finally equaling to R(t)= I am automatically right.

You're more than welcome to come up with your own theory.

But it is going to be put through the same review IT has received.  

And if it can't stand up logically, well you're SOL now ain't ya?



People have been trying to pick apart IT ever since it was theorized.  And guess what, no one has been able to disprove it.

I have a theory, it's RIGHT HERE. PLEASE!! Tell me what you think! Reveiw the heck out of it!!

You do realize that what you are describing is pretty much just a slightly different version of IT and just making a different interpretation out of the "visions" you see when you choose, right?

Not really. It explains things without retconing them. I asked they thought it belong on it's own. It makes alot of sense where IT does not, and they agreed it similar, but not the same. IT can't explain everything, I thought I'd try. Seriouly, give it a read before you judge.

[killage_wizard]

RebelReya wrote...

I'll check again, but I'm pretty sure those scenes were not animated.
The Normady reaper tech, the IFF, and so does EDI. That connects it to the consesus, but only part of it. That's why we don't see the Normandy explode, we see it shut down when the magical wave hits it.

trust me.  nothing was filmed.  those cut scenes just look better because they were not created with the games engine.  they are separate fully animated quicktimes.   

[Ageless Face]

Leafs43 wrote...


If you don't know it's not on the outside of the citadel.....it's amazing that I even argued with you in the first place because you couldn't even take 2 seconds to look around and thusly probably have no idea what you are talking about.

First of all, do not insult me. If you think I'm the only one ignoring things than you are being a huge hypocrite. IT has also many things they are forgetting between themsleves, ignoring, trying to make excuses for, and so on. I'm don't deserve this kinds of insults anymore than you do. And the second you start insulting people, it means that is the only thing you can think of. It's not always so hard to say: "I don't know.". The least you can do is try and be polite. Insults will get you no more respect.

Second of all, Why giving a picture about the Citadel exploding and saying Shepard is there if you don't even think the catalyst's room is there? What are you even trying to say? 

If the room is in the Citadel, then it probobly has protection to it. If it's not then there is no reason for shepard to die. But the room IS in the Citadel. The catalyst IS the Citadel.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 04 juin 2012 - 06:05 .

[RebelReya]

killage_wizard wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

I'll check again, but I'm pretty sure those scenes were not animated.
The Normady reaper tech, the IFF, and so does EDI. That connects it to the consesus, but only part of it. That's why we don't see the Normandy explode, we see it shut down when the magical wave hits it.

trust me.  nothing was filmed.  those cut scenes just look better because they were not created with the games engine.  they are separate fully animated quicktimes.   

Okay, then why go through the trouble of making them look different?

[BaladasDemnevanni]

killage_wizard wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

P47 ace wrote...

so for the IT theory Haters out there you have 2 chioces

1) unfinshed game that sucks
or
2) unfinished game that does not suck 

the chioce is your's

Except IT and the literal interpretation are both examples of #1. The only way I'll ever accept IT as an explanation is if it's made into an important plot point. I want IT to extend from the logic of the storyline, not because I think the literal ending is so badly written that I'd rather pretend it was all a dream. Crap vs. crap, at its core.

It is lifted right from the logic of the story line.  You are fighting an indoc'd TIM the entire game.

Sure, in the same way that "It was all a dream" can technically lift from the logic of a storyline. I mean, if you were in a dream, the Matrix, a brain in a vat, whatever, how would you know until you "woke up"? That's what Indoctrination Theory needs to do to make me take it seriously. We watched Neo explicitly wake up in the Matrix and a character said to him "you're trapped in a dream world". We had a vague cut-scene of Shepard breathing with absolutely no indication of its full context. Indoctrination, as a plot twist, could be extremely clever if it were made explicit, in the manner of your typical Bioware game. Ultimately, it seems even crazier that Bioware planned IT but purposely chose not to resolve the conflict with TIM or the Reapers.

[Leafs43]

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

You do realize that what you are describing is pretty much just a slightly different version of IT and just making a different interpretation out of the "visions" you see when you choose, right?

Not really. It explains things without retconing them. I asked they thought it belong on it's own. It makes alot of sense where IT does not, and they agreed it similar, but not the same. IT can't explain everything, I thought I'd try. Seriouly, give it a read before you judge.

I did read it.


The only real quantifiable differences I see is:

-It takes place in Harbinger's head versus Shepard's head.

-The visions like the Normandy have a more metaphorical meaning.  (A more traditional IT'er would simply just say that the scenes you see after you choose are just the vestiges of Shepard's hope playing out in his mind)



Believe it or not, you're an IT'er and just don't know it.

The only question I need ask is:

To what end would Harbinger want to do this?

Modifié par Leafs43, 04 juin 2012 - 06:09 .

[Aiyie]

Zardoc wrote...

What I don't get about IT supporters (maybe not all, but a whole lot of them) is how they think their THEORY = THE ONE AND ONLY TRUTH. You remind me of religious zealots.

some IT supporters go a bit far, no denying that.

but to be fair...

the only alternative to IT that I've ever seen offered basically boils down to "Bioware screwed up!  I hate Bioware and Mass Effect is dead to me now!"

personally, since it seems that the only two options are either accept accept IT or accept that the devs messed up, i'll go with the option that doesn't leave me as a bitter shell of a gamer.

[RebelReya]

Leafs43 wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

You do realize that what you are describing is pretty much just a slightly different version of IT and just making a different interpretation out of the "visions" you see when you choose, right?

Not really. It explains things without retconing them. I asked they thought it belong on it's own. It makes alot of sense where IT does not, and they agreed it similar, but not the same. IT can't explain everything, I thought I'd try. Seriouly, give it a read before you judge.

I did read it.


The only real quantifiable differences I see is:

-It takes place in Harbinger's head versus Shepard's head.

-The visions like the Normandy have a more metaphorical meaning.  (A more traditional IT'er would simply just say that the scenes you see after you choose are just the vestiges of Shepard's hope playing out in his mind)



Believe it or not, you're an IT'er and just don't know it.

The only question I need ask is:

To what end would Harbinger want to do this?

If you want to look at it simply, your welcome to. But neither myself nor the IT thread agree.

No, he wouldn't, but he failed to indoctrinate Shepard, and lost control.

[Leafs43]

Aiyie wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

What I don't get about IT supporters (maybe not all, but a whole lot of them) is how they think their THEORY = THE ONE AND ONLY TRUTH. You remind me of religious zealots.

some IT supporters go a bit far, no denying that.

but to be fair...

the only alternative to IT that I've ever seen offered basically boils down to "Bioware screwed up!  I hate Bioware and Mass Effect is dead to me now!"

personally, since it seems that the only two options are either accept accept IT or accept that the devs messed up, i'll go with the option that doesn't leave me as a bitter shell of a gamer.

I pretty much take your stance.

I don't buy the "Bioware screwed up" stance to be all that credible to begin with.  Because even when a piece of work fails, you still have to take it at face value.  Ask any Star Wars fan about midochlorians.

Plus it doesn't hurt that IT actually does make sense when you get into the nitty gritty.

Modifié par Leafs43, 04 juin 2012 - 06:21 .

[Leafs43]

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

You do realize that what you are describing is pretty much just a slightly different version of IT and just making a different interpretation out of the "visions" you see when you choose, right?

Not really. It explains things without retconing them. I asked they thought it belong on it's own. It makes alot of sense where IT does not, and they agreed it similar, but not the same. IT can't explain everything, I thought I'd try. Seriouly, give it a read before you judge.

I did read it.


The only real quantifiable differences I see is:

-It takes place in Harbinger's head versus Shepard's head.

-The visions like the Normandy have a more metaphorical meaning.  (A more traditional IT'er would simply just say that the scenes you see after you choose are just the vestiges of Shepard's hope playing out in his mind)



Believe it or not, you're an IT'er and just don't know it.

The only question I need ask is:

To what end would Harbinger want to do this?

If you want to look at it simply, your welcome to. But neither myself nor the IT thread agree.

No, he wouldn't, but he failed to indoctrinate Shepard, and lost control.

Not all IT'ers agree on all the specifics.  We do tend to have a different view at looking at things.  We're not the hive mind cult anti-IT'ers make us out to be.

[Ageless Face]

Aiyie wrote...


some IT supporters go a bit far, no denying that.

but to be fair...

the only alternative to IT that I've ever seen offered basically boils down to "Bioware screwed up!  I hate Bioware and Mass Effect is dead to me now!"

personally, since it seems that the only two options are either accept accept IT or accept that the devs messed up, i'll go with the option that doesn't leave me as a bitter shell of a gamer.

There is not only the IT or BioWare messed up. There are a lot of good theories out there. IT just happens to be the biggest with the most supporters. It a brilliant theory, it's true, but It's not the only one. And some of the theories are actually basing themselves on the ending AND the series. It can work together, with a little open mind .

[Leafs43]

HagarIshay wrote...

Aiyie wrote...


some IT supporters go a bit far, no denying that.

but to be fair...

the only alternative to IT that I've ever seen offered basically boils down to "Bioware screwed up!  I hate Bioware and Mass Effect is dead to me now!"

personally, since it seems that the only two options are either accept accept IT or accept that the devs messed up, i'll go with the option that doesn't leave me as a bitter shell of a gamer.

There is not only the IT or BioWare messed up. There are a lot of good theories out there. IT just happens to be the biggest with the most supporters. It a brilliant theory, it's true, but It's not the only one. And some of the theories are actually basing themselves on the ending AND the series. It can work together, with a little open mind .

I've been here a long time, I have yet to see any of these other theories you speak about.

[Arian Dynas]

Leafs43 wrote...
*snip*

So your evidence is a DLC advertisement.


Man, if everyone believed 100% what advertisements told them....I'd be a rich man right now.

You're a remarkably bitter little pixie aren't you?