496 réponses à ce sujet

[Leafs43]

balance5050 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

It runs deep in all of BSN because it runs deep in the actual mass effect games....

Well, that depends if you believe it or not. 

No, indoctrination is in the game of mass effect, it has it's own codex entry and entire plotlines center around it. To not consider IT is to not consider the Reaper's most useful weapon.

The biggest question of them all has always been, "Why don't the reapers try to indoctrinate Shepard?"

I mean we know the developers have thought about it, pondered it and even tried to create game mechanics to support this question.


What says they just didn't try a different approach.

[balance5050]

Seboist wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I can "interpret" Friday the 13th as being a metaphor for how premarital sex ruins lives but that doesn't mean it's not something I pulled out of my ass and that it isn't a horror fluff flick.

Correct.

So, you're coming to terms with ME3 being bottom of the barrel pulp schlock that has as much depth as a children's inflatable pool? Good man.

Huh? Wow you really are good at that pulling s*** out your ass thing.... Next time try saying something relevant to the discussing instead of showing everyone that being a hater is all you're good at....

[RebelReya]

Leafs43 wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

You do realize that what you are describing is pretty much just a slightly different version of IT and just making a different interpretation out of the "visions" you see when you choose, right?

Not really. It explains things without retconing them. I asked they thought it belong on it's own. It makes alot of sense where IT does not, and they agreed it similar, but not the same. IT can't explain everything, I thought I'd try. Seriouly, give it a read before you judge.

I did read it.


The only real quantifiable differences I see is:

-It takes place in Harbinger's head versus Shepard's head.

-The visions like the Normandy have a more metaphorical meaning.  (A more traditional IT'er would simply just say that the scenes you see after you choose are just the vestiges of Shepard's hope playing out in his mind)



Believe it or not, you're an IT'er and just don't know it.

The only question I need ask is:

To what end would Harbinger want to do this?

If you want to look at it simply, your welcome to. But neither myself nor the IT thread agree.

No, he wouldn't, but he failed to indoctrinate Shepard, and lost control.

Not all IT'ers agree on all the specifics.  We do tend to have a different view at looking at things.  We're not the hive mind cult anti-IT'ers make us out to be.

I never said anything about cults or hiveminds. The theory is based on an interpresations that are also not taking the end at face value, alot of por-enders had similar ideas. That doesn't make them the same as IT. According to HT Shepard has to overcome indoctrinatin to get to the choice. I'd more likely call it anti-indoc theory.

And I won't be Indoctrinated into IT!

Your theory pretty much agrees with ~90% of the IT.


But if you wanna be a hipster about it....

Ha! Nice!
But the halluciantion part of IT is one of my biggest problems with IT. Whenever theirs a video it's only talked about
it as a haluciation. Where is it referanced that indoc causes hallucinations or dreams? Whenever Christ Preistly does a poll on HTL it specifically references hallucinations/dreams. I think that's the part that IT has wrong, and it's kind of an important part of IT.

... but i'd call it 75% at the most.

Hallucination is really only a simple description what is going on with IT.


I mean you have inner and outer concious acts going on in an unconcious mind.  I don't think the english language has really a term for it that I am aware of.  I always took IT's "hallucination" kind of the the Matrix's "jacking in" where it's an environment put in place by Harbinger that is recognized by Shepard's mind and allowing Shepard to play it out with certain controls and parameters in place.


That really isn't all the different than say the geth consensus other than data location.

Concions and Subconcious?
Alot of IT would disgree with you. Are you sure your not an HT-er who doesn't know it yet?

But seriously, where are halucinations referanced in the ME universe?


@Arian Dynas :
Thanks, I know how to take a joke online. I did reply to your response, if your interested.

[Leafs43]

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

You do realize that what you are describing is pretty much just a slightly different version of IT and just making a different interpretation out of the "visions" you see when you choose, right?

Not really. It explains things without retconing them. I asked they thought it belong on it's own. It makes alot of sense where IT does not, and they agreed it similar, but not the same. IT can't explain everything, I thought I'd try. Seriouly, give it a read before you judge.

I did read it.


The only real quantifiable differences I see is:

-It takes place in Harbinger's head versus Shepard's head.

-The visions like the Normandy have a more metaphorical meaning.  (A more traditional IT'er would simply just say that the scenes you see after you choose are just the vestiges of Shepard's hope playing out in his mind)



Believe it or not, you're an IT'er and just don't know it.

The only question I need ask is:

To what end would Harbinger want to do this?

If you want to look at it simply, your welcome to. But neither myself nor the IT thread agree.

No, he wouldn't, but he failed to indoctrinate Shepard, and lost control.

Not all IT'ers agree on all the specifics.  We do tend to have a different view at looking at things.  We're not the hive mind cult anti-IT'ers make us out to be.

I never said anything about cults or hiveminds. The theory is based on an interpresations that are also not taking the end at face value, alot of por-enders had similar ideas. That doesn't make them the same as IT. According to HT Shepard has to overcome indoctrinatin to get to the choice. I'd more likely call it anti-indoc theory.

And I won't be Indoctrinated into IT!

Your theory pretty much agrees with ~90% of the IT.


But if you wanna be a hipster about it....

Ha! Nice!
But the halluciantion part of IT is one of my biggest problems with IT. Whenever theirs a video it's only talked about
it as a haluciation. Where is it referanced that indoc causes hallucinations or dreams? Whenever Christ Preistly does a poll on HTL it specifically references hallucinations/dreams. I think that's the part that IT has wrong, and it's kind of an important part of IT.

... but i'd call it 75% at the most.

Hallucination is really only a simple description what is going on with IT.


I mean you have inner and outer concious acts going on in an unconcious mind.  I don't think the english language has really a term for it that I am aware of.  I always took IT's "hallucination" kind of the the Matrix's "jacking in" where it's an environment put in place by Harbinger that is recognized by Shepard's mind and allowing Shepard to play it out with certain controls and parameters in place.


That really isn't all the different than say the geth consensus other than data location.

Concions and Subconcious?
Alot of IT would disgree with you. Are you sure your not an HT-er who doesn't know it yet?

But seriously, where are halucinations referanced in the ME universe?


@Arian Dynas :
Thanks, I know how to take a joke online. I did reply to your response, if your interested.

The derelict reaper in ME2 heavily referenced hallucinations.

[Ageless Face]

balance5050 wrote...


No, indoctrination is in the game of mass effect, it has it's own codex entry and entire plotlines center around it. To not consider IT is to not consider the Reaper's most useful weapon.

Of course you should consider it. But you at the same time you should also consider taking the ending at a face value. But since you are an IT supporter, I assume you don't believe the ending should be taken at face value. So I'm also not believeing the IT. But I never said I didn't consider it. Nor did I say it should not be considered. But it's all comes down to whether you believe it or not. 

[balance5050]

Leafs43 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

It runs deep in all of BSN because it runs deep in the actual mass effect games....

Well, that depends if you believe it or not. 

No, indoctrination is in the game of mass effect, it has it's own codex entry and entire plotlines center around it. To not consider IT is to not consider the Reaper's most useful weapon.

The biggest question of them all has always been, "Why don't the reapers try to indoctrinate Shepard?"

I mean we know the developers have thought about it, pondered it and even tried to create game mechanics to support this question.


What says they just didn't try a different approach.

Well, Harbinger says multiple times that he want's you body specifically for some reason. I think it has something to do with the fact that Shepard possesses the Prothean cipher.

[Seboist]

balance5050 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I can "interpret" Friday the 13th as being a metaphor for how premarital sex ruins lives but that doesn't mean it's not something I pulled out of my ass and that it isn't a horror fluff flick.

Correct.

So, you're coming to terms with ME3 being bottom of the barrel pulp schlock that has as much depth as a children's inflatable pool? Good man.

Huh? Wow you really are good at that pulling s*** out your ass thing.... Next time try saying something relevant to the discussing instead of showing everyone that being a hater is all you're good at....

By all means explain how the same writers who invalidated ME1's plot and came up with the horrid crucible plot are capable of anything sophisticated.

Until you do all you're doing is proving you're a self-deluded fanboy.

[Applepie_Svk]

Zardoc wrote...

What I don't get about IT supporters (maybe not all, but a whole lot of them) is how they think their THEORY = THE ONE AND ONLY TRUTH. You remind me of religious zealots.

I am suppporter of IT because it´s better explanation than we recieved but also I don´t like the fact that game was rushed and EC proves that even unfinished. If there is any other good answer to ending of ME3 i would like to hear it and if it will be great than Whoa all these peoples were talking about IT and yet we get something different and mindblowing.
What´s upset me more is that PR joke from Hudson as: I would like to see all these discusion of what happened or what might happened in the end of ME3... Well lol I don´t buy product because of what might happened but because i want the story had delivered with full experience and joy/not with depresion and regrets/

[balance5050]

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


No, indoctrination is in the game of mass effect, it has it's own codex entry and entire plotlines center around it. To not consider IT is to not consider the Reaper's most useful weapon.

Of course you should consider it. But you at the same time you should also consider taking the ending at a face value. But since you are an IT supporter, I assume you don't believe the ending should be taken at face value. So I'm also not believeing the IT. But I never said I didn't consider it. Nor did I say it should not be considered. But it's all comes down to whether you believe it or not. 

I have considered the endings at face value, and they are full of thematical inconsistencies, plotholes, and things that don't make any sense. You have heard that there was this huge movement that raised over $100000 because the face value endings suck so much right?

[RebelReya]

Leafs43 wrote...

The derelict reaper in ME2 heavily referenced hallucinations.

I thought they were descibed as ghosts, not full alternate reality hallucinations?

[Arian Dynas]

Leafs43 wrote...
*snip*

Who pissed in your cornflakes?

We were having a civil discussion.  

You are the one with the problem.

Oh and you're going to get nasty...over the internet.  I am scared.

Why don't you just take your diarhea spewing attitude and shove it.

And now the fun begins tough boy.

Let's have a look at YOU shall we?

You are spending your time arguing about a videogame on the internet, arguing with people who already made up their minds.

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do? Right now you all you are managing to achive is giving all the rest of us a bad name by acting as brusque and ill tempered as possible. Do you genuinely expect anyone to listen to you while doing so? Would YOU listen to someone who insults you and goes on about how superior he is?

I am a firm IT beliver, and personally support the ideas you tout. I do not however support the manner in which you do so. If you want people to listen you have to approach them in a manner that actually seems worth approaching, otherwise you are the internet equivalent of a raging hobo shouting obsceneties at his penis in the street. Is that genuinely who you want to look like?

And more to the point, if you really want to insult someone, you'll have to do better than that. Insulting a person with flair and style requires alot more than mere profanity. If you're going to be trying to get under people's skin, at least go about it the right way.

And for the record. I never threatened you physically, the only thing that I have threatened is your ego.

Anywho, I leave you with these thoughts. Ignore the ****s, play nice with the kids who are willing to, or you're just going to look like an idiot.

                8=/=D
"Don't be a Dick" - Wil Wheaton

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 04 juin 2012 - 07:06 .

[balance5050]

Seboist wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I can "interpret" Friday the 13th as being a metaphor for how premarital sex ruins lives but that doesn't mean it's not something I pulled out of my ass and that it isn't a horror fluff flick.

Correct.

So, you're coming to terms with ME3 being bottom of the barrel pulp schlock that has as much depth as a children's inflatable pool? Good man.

Huh? Wow you really are good at that pulling s*** out your ass thing.... Next time try saying something relevant to the discussing instead of showing everyone that being a hater is all you're good at....

By all means explain how the same writers who invalidated ME1's plot and came up with the horrid crucible plot are capable of anything sophisticated.

Until you do all you're doing is proving you're a self-deluded fanboy.

Sigh.... Maybe you should do your research, becasue then you'd now how naive you sound. If you plug in the I.T. the ending actually embraces ME1's plotline, ME1's plotline is actually a huge set of clues and makess replay that much better. I.T. invalidates nothing, in fact it makes even the tiniest dialogue more meaningful....

"Do you hear that buzzing?"

Modifié par balance5050, 04 juin 2012 - 07:11 .

[Leafs43]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...
*snip*

Who pissed in your cornflakes?

We were having a civil discussion.  

You are the one with the problem.

Oh and you're going to get nasty...over the internet.  I am scared.

Why don't you just take your diarhea spewing attitude and shove it.

And now the fun begins tough boy.

Let's have a look at YOU shall we?

You are spending your time arguing about a videogame on the internet, arguing with people who already made up their minds.

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do? Right now you all you are managing to achive is giving all the rest of us a bad name by acting as brusque and ill tempered as possible. Do you genuinely expect anyone to listen to you while doing so? Would YOU listen to someone who insults you and goes on about how superior he is?

I am a firm IT beliver, and personally support the ideas you tout. I do not however support the manner in which you do so. If you want people to listen you have to approach them in a manner that actually seems worth approaching, otherwise you are the internet equivalent of a raging hobo shouting obsceneties at his penis in the street. Is that genuinely who you want to look like?

And more to the point, if you really want to insult someone, you'll have to do better than that. Insulting a person with flair and style requires alot more than mere profanity. If you're going to be trying to get under people's skin, at least go about it the right way.

And for the record. I never threatened you physically, the only thing that I have threatened is your ego.

Anywho, I leave you with these thoughts. Ignore the ****s, play nice with the kids who are willing to, or you're just going to look like an idiot.

                8=/=D
"Don't be a Dick" - Wil Wheaton

Ouch, you got me.

I guess this is why you get to wear the big boy pants.

[balance5050]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...
*snip*

Who pissed in your cornflakes?

We were having a civil discussion.  

You are the one with the problem.

Oh and you're going to get nasty...over the internet.  I am scared.

Why don't you just take your diarhea spewing attitude and shove it.

And now the fun begins tough boy.

Let's have a look at YOU shall we?

You are spending your time arguing about a videogame on the internet, arguing with people who already made up their minds.

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do? Right now you all you are managing to achive is giving all the rest of us a bad name by acting as brusque and ill tempered as possible. Do you genuinely expect anyone to listen to you while doing so? Would YOU listen to someone who insults you and goes on about how superior he is?

I am a firm IT beliver, and personally support the ideas you tout. I do not however support the manner in which you do so. If you want people to listen you have to approach them in a manner that actually seems worth approaching, otherwise you are the internet equivalent of a raging hobo shouting obsceneties at his penis in the street. Is that genuinely who you want to look like?

And more to the point, if you really want to insult someone, you'll have to do better than that. Insulting a person with flair and style requires alot more than mere profanity. If you're going to be trying to get under people's skin, at least go about it the right way.

And for the record. I never threatened you physically, the only thing that I have threatened is your ego.

Anywho, I leave you with these thoughts. Ignore the ****s, play nice with the kids who are willing to, or you're just going to look like an idiot.

                8=/=D
"Don't be a Dick" - Wil Wheaton

I'm sorry Arian Dynas but this thread is just asking for things like this, and you llistened to a known I.T. hater (book burner) to quell leafs spreading of I.T. in a thread that is clearly I.T. oriented, I spend enough time outside the IT thread to know that leafs is a good guy.....

[Leafs43]

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

The derelict reaper in ME2 heavily referenced hallucinations.

I thought they were descibed as ghosts, not full alternate reality hallucinations?

Aren't ghosts just hallucinations?  (Unless you believe in ghosts)


Plus hallucinations are mentioned in the codex itself.

[OneWithTheAssassins]

Arian Dynas wrote...


And now the fun begins tough boy.

Let's have a look at YOU shall we?

You are spending your time arguing about a videogame on the internet, arguing with people who already made up their minds.

Do you really have nothing more constructive to do? Right now you all you are managing to achive is giving all the rest of us a bad name by acting as brusque and ill tempered as possible. Do you genuinely expect anyone to listen to you while doing so? Would YOU listen to someone who insults you and goes on about how superior he is?

I am a firm IT beliver, and personally support the ideas you tout. I do not however support the manner in which you do so. If you want people to listen you have to approach them in a manner that actually seems worth approaching, otherwise you are the internet equivalent of a raging hobo shouting obsceneties at his penis in the street. Is that genuinely who you want to look like?

And more to the point, if you really want to insult someone, you'll have to do better than that. Insulting a person with flair and style requires alot more than mere profanity. If you're going to be trying to get under people's skin, at least go about it the right way.

And for the record. I never threatened you physically, the only thing that I have threatened is your ego.

Anywho, I leave you with these thoughts. Ignore the ****s, play nice with the kids who are willing to, or you're just going to look like an idiot.

                8=/=D
"Don't be a Dick" - Wil Wheaton

[Seboist]

balance5050 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I can "interpret" Friday the 13th as being a metaphor for how premarital sex ruins lives but that doesn't mean it's not something I pulled out of my ass and that it isn't a horror fluff flick.

Correct.

So, you're coming to terms with ME3 being bottom of the barrel pulp schlock that has as much depth as a children's inflatable pool? Good man.

Huh? Wow you really are good at that pulling s*** out your ass thing.... Next time try saying something relevant to the discussing instead of showing everyone that being a hater is all you're good at....

By all means explain how the same writers who invalidated ME1's plot and came up with the horrid crucible plot are capable of anything sophisticated.

Until you do all you're doing is proving you're a self-deluded fanboy.

Sigh.... Maybe you should do your research, becasue the you'd now how naive you sound. If you plug in the I.T. the ending actually embraces ME1's plotline, ME1's plotline is actually a huge set of clues and makess replay that much better. I.T. invalidates nothing, in fact it makes even the tiniest dialogue more meaningful....

"Do you hear that buzzing?"

In what deluded fantasy world do you live in where the Reapers don't wait until TIM tells them late in the game to do something about the citadel or where there isn't a prothean superweapon's schematics that can be understood by any idiot and his mother but simple warnings need a cipher to decipher?

Christ almighty seek psychiatric help immediately.

Modifié par Seboist, 04 juin 2012 - 07:13 .

[balance5050]

Leafs43 wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

The derelict reaper in ME2 heavily referenced hallucinations.

I thought they were descibed as ghosts, not full alternate reality hallucinations?

Aren't ghosts just hallucinations?  (Unless you believe in ghosts)


Plus hallucinations are mentioned in the codex itself.

People would rather believe in ghost than an insideous hallucination it seems.

[HellishFiend]

This thread is full of people who do not realize that one does not require validation from others in order to feel justified in their opinion.

Even worse is when they seek that validation from those who are of a different opinion.

[balance5050]

Seboist wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I can "interpret" Friday the 13th as being a metaphor for how premarital sex ruins lives but that doesn't mean it's not something I pulled out of my ass and that it isn't a horror fluff flick.

Correct.

So, you're coming to terms with ME3 being bottom of the barrel pulp schlock that has as much depth as a children's inflatable pool? Good man.

Huh? Wow you really are good at that pulling s*** out your ass thing.... Next time try saying something relevant to the discussing instead of showing everyone that being a hater is all you're good at....

By all means explain how the same writers who invalidated ME1's plot and came up with the horrid crucible plot are capable of anything sophisticated.

Until you do all you're doing is proving you're a self-deluded fanboy.

Sigh.... Maybe you should do your research, becasue the you'd now how naive you sound. If you plug in the I.T. the ending actually embraces ME1's plotline, ME1's plotline is actually a huge set of clues and makess replay that much better. I.T. invalidates nothing, in fact it makes even the tiniest dialogue more meaningful....

"Do you hear that buzzing?"

In what deluded fantasy world do you live in where the Reapers don't wait until TIM tells them late in the game to do something about the citadel or where there isn't a prothean superweapon's schematics that can be understood by any idiot and his mother but simple warnings need a cipher to decipher?

Christ almighty seek psychiatric help immediately.

I really don't see how any of that invalidates ME1....

[Ageless Face]

balance5050 wrote...


I have considered the endings at face value, and they are full of thematical inconsistencies, plotholes, and things that don't make any sense. You have heard that there was this huge movement that raised over $100000 because the face value endings suck so much right?

Yes, I have heard. And yes, the ending plot has so many plotholes to it that it's just sad. But beleive it or not, IT is not perfect either. Yes, it can explain a LOT of the ending and the stupidity of it, but it also have some plotholes, making a one way street for the game, which is obviously not the purpose of an RPG (or a game which has RPG elements and choices are supposed to be a part of the game), or the fact that it's changing the hole ending to something it's not, which is not a possiblity to do so if there will be a ME4. And of course that if the IT will be confirmed, then some fans will get screwed when others will rub it in them (not neceecerly you, but there will be).

And, if BioWare will actually do the IT, it's either they wanted to sell us the real ending and got pushed to do it for free by the retakers, which is a disgusting thing to do to a fan (that is also to answer the OP's question as to why I don't like the ending being sold incomplete). Or BioWare just took their fans ideas and that will really let down my repect for them as writers. Both options as to why BioWare will put the EC will probobly make me have a major let down from the company. I know I stand alone in this opinion (or with very few peole), but sadly, it seem that BioWare is now in the position of  "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't".

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

This thread is full of people who do not realize that one does not require validation from others in order to feel justified in their opinion.

Even worse is when they seek that validation from those who are of a different opinion.

Well said my friend, well said.

[Leafs43]

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

This thread is full of people who do not realize that one does not require validation from others in order to feel justified in their opinion.

Even worse is when they seek that validation from those who are of a different opinion.

Well said my friend, well said.

Ironic seeing as how you took 10 minutes to write out a long winded diatribe


lulz.

[balance5050]

HagarIshay wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


I have considered the endings at face value, and they are full of thematical inconsistencies, plotholes, and things that don't make any sense. You have heard that there was this huge movement that raised over $100000 because the face value endings suck so much right?

Yes, I have heard. And yes, the ending plot has so many plotholes to it that it's just sad. But beleive it or not, IT is not perfect either. Yes, it can explain a LOT of the ending and the stupidity of it, but it also have some plotholes, making a one way street for the game, which is obviously not the purpose of an RPG (or a game which has RPG elements and choices are supposed to be a part of the game), or the fact that it's changing the hole ending to something it's not, which is not a possiblity to do so if there will be a ME4. And of course that if the IT will be confirmed, then some fans will get screwed when others will rub it in them (not neceecerly you, but there will be).

And, if BioWare will actually do the IT, it's either they wanted to sell us the real ending and got pushed to do it for free by the retakers, which is a disgusting thing to do to a fan (that is also to answer the OP's question as to why I don't like the ending being sold incomplete). Or BioWare just took their fans ideas and that will really let down my repect for them as writers. Both options as to why BioWare will put the EC will probobly make me have a major let down from the company. I know I stand alone in this opinion (or with very few peole), but sadly, it seem that BioWare is now in the position of  "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't".

A. You say that I.T. has plotholes and then fail to mentions what these are.

B. It's not railroading you into anything, the decision you make is actually just another decision that will affect your *expanded* ending.

C. Yes, games tend to nickel and dime people in this day and age.
http://www.cinemable...6-99-40917.html 
http://www.gamespot....essions-6234008 
http://www.eurogamer...nding-explained 

Modifié par balance5050, 04 juin 2012 - 07:25 .

[balance5050]

STOP THE IN-FIGHTING, POLARIZING EFFECTS ON THE FANS IS WHAT CASEY WANTED. FLAME WARS HAPPEN IN EVERY I.T. THREAD SO GET USED TO IT!