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What i don't get about the IT haters


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#426
killage_wizard

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Lord Goose wrote...

The kid says he will destroy "most technology you rely on". He basically changes his story to make sure destroy seems bad.

In comparison to "you will die" in Control, losing most technology doesn't sounds very bad...


It also destorys the mass relays stranding the entire fleet at earth causing everyone to starve to death.  It also kills EDI, and Shepard's body would be destroyed since it is relying on cerberus implants.  Wait how can Shepard take a breathe if the Catalyst implies choosing Destroy will destroy his implants?

#427
llbountyhunter

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Lord Goose wrote...

well edi, is still alive... and with destroy (according to the star brat) most of technology will be disabled as well. resulting in many more deaths

I always assumed that by "you" he means Shepard. Not galactic civilizations in general.



maybe, but I think its kinda werd for only shepards technology to be ok, and other technology to be fine. 

I mean if its optional as too what is destroyed then why not just the reapers?

thats why I think  the starbrat was talking about all technology

#428
Lord Goose

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"You can destroy all synthetic life if you want, including the Geth, and most of the technology you rely on."

But most of technology is not synthetic life.
I think that phrase makes more sense if he was meaning Shepards implants.

"You can destroy all synthetic life if you want, including the Geth, and most of the technology you rely on. Even you are partly synthetic"

#429
NRieh

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I.T. is the most liekly answer that uses the fewest assumptions

Oh really? It is BASED on a huge assumption, that BW was so smart and inventive, that they decided to "hint" people that "there's more here then meet the eye" by all those textures on the piles of garbage, bushes which either exist or not and squad mechanically stuck into cutscene? "Oh let's put this brick here - so they'll know it's a dream, and in case they won't notice - we'll make this spot on the wall look just a bit like Garrus. And don't forget to add bushes!"?

Even if you suppose that 1\\2 of those "facts" and "proofs" were put in game just for fans to notice and build a theory....well, I think you got me right already.

Another point is...if THIS is "How shep sees it", his menthal projections... Shep must have real problems with menthal health. Any psychologists out here, hello? What exactly should "normandy" cut depict, if we consider, that it's "how Shep feels it"? (s)He knows Normandy is out there, in action, and the most optimal way his subconscious demonstrates his\\her fear of loosing a team is not from the reaper's hit, but from happy crashlanding?..

#430
balance5050

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Lord Goose wrote...

"You can destroy all synthetic life if you want, including the Geth, and most of the technology you rely on."

But most of technology is not synthetic life.
I think that phrase makes more sense if he was meaning Shepards implants.

"You can destroy all synthetic life if you want, including the Geth, and most of the technology you rely on. Even you are partly synthetic"


Then he would be saying the same thing twice.

#431
balance5050

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Nrieh wrote...

I.T. is the most liekly answer that uses the fewest assumptions

Oh really? It is BASED on a huge assumption, that BW was so smart and inventive, that they decided to "hint" people that "there's more here then meet the eye" by all those textures on the piles of garbage, bushes which either exist or not and squad mechanically stuck into cutscene? "Oh let's put this brick here - so they'll know it's a dream, and in case they won't notice - we'll make this spot on the wall look just a bit like Garrus. And don't forget to add bushes!"?

Even if you suppose that 12 of those "facts" and "proofs" were put in game just for fans to notice and build a theory....well, I think you got me right already.

Another point is...if THIS is "How shep sees it", his menthal projections... Shep must have real problems with menthal health. Any psychologists out here, hello? What exactly should "normandy" cut depict, if we consider, that it's "how Shep feels it"? (s)He knows Normandy is out there, in action, and the most optimal way his subconscious demonstrates hisher fear of loosing a team is not from the reaper's hit, but from happy crashlanding?..


They did though, and the lore basically spoon feeds you that they have wanted Shep indoctrinated for a long time. ME2 - "We willl find another way", "YOUR MIND WILL BE MINE"

They obviously did lay down hints because there are hours worth of material to go over.

 

 

http://masseffectind...n.blogspot.com/ 

Take your time, it's quite ingenious.


Also, Shepard is a hopeful guy, it only makes sense that he would envision his crew having some semblance of hope instead of completely dead.

Modifié par balance5050, 04 juin 2012 - 06:48 .


#432
Taboo

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Maybe I should do a counter documentary.

With actual people.

Like psychologists and artists.

And make it twice as long as the Indoc one.

I'll call it..............THE THIN ICE.

#433
NRieh

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the lore basically spoon feeds you that they have wanted Shep indoctrinated for a long time. ME2 - "We willl find another way", "YOUR MIND WILL BE MINE"

Oh really? Probably, I should also consider every single in-game merc shouting he's gonna kill me as "a secret warning of inevitable death" then? They must be shouting for some reason - no doubt... 8P

#434
BaladasDemnevanni

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Uncle Jo wrote...

]I suppose that you're talking about the events after the endings. If we refer to BW said: they wanted speculations, so clearly telling in a text-box that you were indoctrinated or that you failed would kinda ruin it. If the players were about to know what choice was really the best, there is no debate anymore. The most important theme of the discussion (IT true or not) is IMO, "Did you trust the brat or not"? 


Good speculation is the sort that the narrative throws at the player every step of the way. Inception is the prime example everyone loves using: was Cobb in a dream at the end? We're presented with active evidence which could indicate either possibility. We're shown what the world is like in a dream and we're shown what the world is like in reality. The totem tells us clear evidence whether Cobb is dreaming

ME3 does not do this. Many people grasped at IT after the fact. You said so yourself in your previous post; you bought IT because the current incarnation of the ending is insane. That's why I find IT distasteful; it's essentially a bandaid. A good source of speculation allows enough ambiguity for a person to think either option could be right. So maybe have Shepard actively wonder out loud "am I dreaming?". Neo does this in the Matrix. Or have someone comment on how most people who are exposed to that much Reaper tech should be heavily affected by this point. 

A good plot twist requires that at some point, the developers fully reveal the twist (Darth Vader is Luke's father). Good speculation requires that enough information is given, throughout the narrative, that the player is constantly playing with the idea of whether they are being affected.

-The Catalyst is what it always was : the Citadel. Not a glowing kid who pops out of nowhere. As for the Crucible, it's true that we don't know what it could really do. Maybe it's even a red-herring. But honestly I prefer not having a clue or theorizing about it and how it works than seeing what I saw at the face valued ending.


That's still handwaving it away. Okay, the Catalyst is the Citadel...now what does it do? You've given me the form, now give me the function. We're told the Crucible was modified to make use of the Catalyst....what did it do before? This all leads back to IT theory simply rewinding the clock.

Indoctrination Theory is still an interpretation and not the absolute truth. Only Bioware can tell what really happened in the end. But bashing a theory, that still makes more sense than the face valued endings and based on an established lore (the Indoctrination ability of the Reapers), just for the sake of it and without even knowing a damn about it, is for me rather pointless.


What exactly do I not know about it? So far, no one has told me that I got anything wrong as far as the details of the theory. I did have it right in thinking that IT theory involves Shepard waking up after Harbinger's beam, hence my point that it basically just removes the last fifteen minutes, since it contains nothing of narrative significance.

I like IT theory as an idea, I just don't think Bioware had intentions for it.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 04 juin 2012 - 06:52 .


#435
balance5050

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Taboo-XX wrote...

Maybe I should do a counter documentary.

With actual people.

Like psychologists and artists.

And make it twice as long as the Indoc one.

I'll call it..............THE THIN ICE.


Sure, I'm sure if real psychologists and artists from the gaming field got involved it would be interesting.

Modifié par balance5050, 04 juin 2012 - 06:51 .


#436
jla0644

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balance5050 wrote...


They did though, and the lore basically spoon feeds you that they have wanted Shep indoctrinated for a long time. ME2 - "We willl find another way", "YOUR MIND WILL BE MINE"


And if you never played ME1 or ME2, I guess you're just screwed out of being able to correctly figure out the ending, despite the fact that Bioware said ME3 was good jumping off point?

#437
balance5050

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Nrieh wrote...

the lore basically spoon feeds you that they have wanted Shep indoctrinated for a long time. ME2 - "We willl find another way", "YOUR MIND WILL BE MINE"

Oh really? Probably, I should also consider every single in-game merc shouting he's gonna kill me as "a secret warning of inevitable death" then? They must be shouting for some reason - no doubt... 8P


Those lines I said were from Harbinger and Project Rho talking directly to you, not random babble, you sure you've played the other games?

#438
balance5050

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jla0644 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


They did though, and the lore basically spoon feeds you that they have wanted Shep indoctrinated for a long time. ME2 - "We willl find another way", "YOUR MIND WILL BE MINE"


And if you never played ME1 or ME2, I guess you're just screwed out of being able to correctly figure out the ending, despite the fact that Bioware said ME3 was good jumping off point?


Right, n00bs will ofcourse have a different pereception of the ending because they have far less information to come up with a conlusion.

I don't think anyone that jumps on board of a trilogy in the 3rd game has any idea what's happening anyway. Not a good decision when ME1 and ME2 are both fine games.

Modifié par balance5050, 04 juin 2012 - 06:56 .


#439
Taboo

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I could do that. But I'm going to need a replacement camera. Thankfully I'm getting a new one.

Psychologists can explain things, and the artists theirs.

And I'll be there to narrate.

#440
NRieh

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Maybe I should do a counter documentary.
With actual people.
Like psychologists and artists.
And make it twice as long as the Indoc one.

Yes, PLEASE! I got some psychology-related people around, but they are not interested in gaming, so there is little chance they will agree. What I'd love to see - is TRUE psychoanalysis of those sequences, including dreams. From my point of view - hallucinations should not work like that (if they are Shep's) and they mus have some obvious purpose (if they are reapers')

#441
balance5050

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Taboo-XX wrote...

I could do that. But I'm going to need a replacement camera. Thankfully I'm getting a new one.

Psychologists can explain things, and the artists theirs.

And I'll be there to narrate.


Looking forward to it.:)

Maybe it will be featured in a bunch of gaming websites like Clevernoob's documentary.

Modifié par balance5050, 04 juin 2012 - 07:07 .


#442
NRieh

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Those lines I said were from Harbinger and Project Rho talking directly to you, not random babble, you sure you've played the other games?

Oh yess, Harbi, asuming direct control, [something] shepard's body etc. And Sovereign was also very talkative about our destiny...

#443
jla0644

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balance5050 wrote...

jla0644 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


They did though, and the lore basically spoon feeds you that they have wanted Shep indoctrinated for a long time. ME2 - "We willl find another way", "YOUR MIND WILL BE MINE"


And if you never played ME1 or ME2, I guess you're just screwed out of being able to correctly figure out the ending, despite the fact that Bioware said ME3 was good jumping off point?


Right, n00bs will ofcourse have a different pereception of the ending because they have far less information to come up with a conlusion.


LOL, so they have no chance to figure out what is really happening, but its okay because they don't know any better?

Also, "We will find another way" doesn't have to have anything to do with Shepard. I always thought Harbinger was talking to the Collector General, seeing as how he said "releasing control", and we see the yellow lights go out of his eyes.  It meant they'd find another way to make the human Reaper.


Modifié par jla0644, 04 juin 2012 - 07:04 .


#444
jijeebo

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Vigilant111 wrote...


@jujeebo: the last line of your post is just a futile way to make people feel better (obligatory), obviously u believe that control triumphs over other options, and there is NO way u will believe that they are all valid


No it isn't, that is how I feel. Just because some people are obsessed with discreditting the endings they didn't pick in some attempt to prove themselves "right" doesn't mean i'm the same.

Control is my preferred ending, but that doesn't mean I consider the others invalid, because they all end the threat perfectly fine.

#445
balance5050

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jla0644 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

jla0644 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


They did though, and the lore basically spoon feeds you that they have wanted Shep indoctrinated for a long time. ME2 - "We willl find another way", "YOUR MIND WILL BE MINE"


And if you never played ME1 or ME2, I guess you're just screwed out of being able to correctly figure out the ending, despite the fact that Bioware said ME3 was good jumping off point?


Right, n00bs will ofcourse have a different pereception of the ending because they have far less information to come up with a conlusion.


LOL, so they have no chance to figure out what is really happening, but its okay because they don't know any better?

Also, "We will find another way" doesn't have to have anything to do with Shepard. I always thought Harbinger was talking to the Collector General, seeing as how he said "releasing control", and we see the yellow lights go out of his eyes.  It meant they'd find another way to make the human Reaper.




Well they can figure out what is really happening by following Ray Muzykas advice and "Doing your research," 

#446
Vox Draco

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balance5050 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I could do that. But I'm going to need a replacement camera. Thankfully I'm getting a new one.

Psychologists can explain things, and the artists theirs.

And I'll be there to narrate.


Looking forward to it.:)

Maybe it will be featured in a bunch of gaming websites like clevernoob's documentary.


I guess it will be thrice as long as the original version of Heaven's Gate and full of Pink Floyd songs and references...at least it mght keep him occupied for a while...Image IPB

#447
balance5050

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Vox Draco wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I could do that. But I'm going to need a replacement camera. Thankfully I'm getting a new one.

Psychologists can explain things, and the artists theirs.

And I'll be there to narrate.


Looking forward to it.:)

Maybe it will be featured in a bunch of gaming websites like clevernoob's documentary.


I guess it will be thrice as long as the original version of Heaven's Gate and full of Pink Floyd songs and references...at least it mght keep him occupied for a while...Image IPB


:D

That's what I was thinking, he'll start trying to decide which pink floyd songs work best with his out of context interviews and he'll just check out into a daze half way through Echoes.

Modifié par balance5050, 04 juin 2012 - 07:10 .


#448
llbountyhunter

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Nrieh wrote...

Maybe I should do a counter documentary.
With actual people.
Like psychologists and artists.
And make it twice as long as the Indoc one.

Yes, PLEASE! I got some psychology-related people around, but they are not interested in gaming, so there is little chance they will agree. What I'd love to see - is TRUE psychoanalysis of those sequences, including dreams. From my point of view - hallucinations should not work like that (if they are Shep's) and they mus have some obvious purpose (if they are reapers')


well its not Technically a hallucination in the classical terms bcause shepard in uncounsious. 

if you want my take on it, you can look at my thread, its in my sig.

#449
jla0644

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balance5050 wrote...

Well they can figure out what is really happening by following Ray Muzykas advice and "Doing your research," 


"I urge you to do your own research: play the game, finish it, and tell us what you think."

I really don't think he meant go do actual research and study the lore of ME. If that's what he had meant, he would have used a comma, not a colon. In this case, "research" means playing and finishing the game. Besides, having to do research to properly understand a vital part of the game doesn't really fit with the statement that ME3 would be a great point to enter the series.

No comment on your interpretation of "We will find another way"? I thought it was obvious, especially after watching the scene again, that Harby was not talking to Shepard at that point.

Modifié par jla0644, 04 juin 2012 - 07:26 .


#450
llbountyhunter

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jla0644 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Well they can figure out what is really happening by following Ray Muzykas advice and "Doing your research," 


"I urge you to do your own research: play the game, finish it, and tell us what you think."

I really don't think he meant go do actual research and study the lore of ME. If that's what he had meant, he would have used a comma, not a colon. In this case, "research" means playing and finishing the game. Besides, having to do research to properly understand a vital part of the game doesn't really fit with the statement that ME3 would be a great point to enter the series.

No comment on your interpretation of "We will find another way"? I thought it was obvious, especially after watching the scene again, that Harby was not talking to Shepard at that point.



have you tried watching the final matrix movie without first viewing the other two? its impossible.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 04 juin 2012 - 07:28 .