496 réponses à ce sujet

[P47 ace]

Taboo-XX wrote...

P47 ace wrote...

@ Omanisat
Mass effect is a SPACE OPERA

So?

One might easily call it military science fiction or speculative science fiction if you're into that sort thing.

those are its classifaction in Sci-Fi

Its literary classifcation is Space Opera
defining setting and story telling method of focuing on charaters and their reactions to evoling plot/s

[Banul]

If the IT was true, I would still think it was bad

[RebelReya]

Theirs plenty of IT that I like, but I also think theirs still plenty of other ideas out there. IT likes to see itself as the only legitimate one.

[julio77777]

There is no need for logic in a Deus Ex Machina, previous plot is irrelevant, you have an omnipotent, omniscient being showing up, telling you the truth, and resolving everything.
You just have to accept that's what the ending is.

Modifié par julio77777, 04 juin 2012 - 02:15 .

[P47 ace]

LucasShark wrote...

IT means that I just paid 100 bucks to have a company punk me of an ending they sold the game based upon. It wouldn't be quite as obnoxious if the rest of the game was up to par, which it isn't.

So you still have an unfinished game, with a crappy ending
how dose that make you feel?

[Rombomm]

dunre646 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's just bad. It happens. All. The. Time.

The only thing that has kept the IT alive is an extreme case of cult like behavior and confirmation bias.

so you have a real counter argument to it?

There are plenty of counter arguments, a few of which have already been posted here.

It's just hard to argue with somebody who refuses to listen.

[Taboo]

dunre646 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's just bad. It happens. All. The. Time.

The only thing that has kept the IT alive is an extreme case of cult like behavior and confirmation bias.

so you have a real counter argument to it?

Heaven's Gate

Novecento (1900)

Alien Ressurection

These kinds of things happen in Hollywood all the time.

Someone thinks they have something badass and it turns out to be just plain bad.

You present a fallacious argument with your post. You are no different than a deeply religious person asking me to disprove the Bible.

The answer is irrelevant.

Occam's Razor dictates that the simplest answer is almost always the correct one.

In our case, we just have a complete crap shoot.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 04 juin 2012 - 02:09 .

[xsdob]

I don't like IT because it invalidates my philosophical views about my ending choice. I choose control because I do not believe that power corrupts absolutely, but that it is the wilder who is responsible. Like thane said, if a person who has a gun chooses to kill someone with it, do you blame the gun or the wielder of the gun? Shepard is a good person, hell a great freaking person, someone's whose done the impossible and achieved what no one else could. I trust him to wield great power responsibly and have faith he can do so without becoming a genocidal monster. Control also falls into my favorite type of fiction, a character who uses a power seen as evil and manages to use it for good, I love that and I rarely see it implemented at all.

The IT would have my sheapard a husk or indoctrinated, and he would need to kill himself not for a noble goal or for the good of all races but because my own philosophy was thought to be wrong by someone else and they felt the need to punish me for having a certain world view.

[LucasShark]

P47 ace wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

IT means that I just paid 100 bucks to have a company punk me of an ending they sold the game based upon. It wouldn't be quite as obnoxious if the rest of the game was up to par, which it isn't.

So you still have an unfinished game, with a crappy ending
how dose that make you feel?

IT isn't an ending either

[Mcfly616]

julio77777 wrote...

There is no need for logic in a Deus Ex Machina, previous plot is irrelevant, you have an omnipotent, omniscient being showing telling you the truth.
You just have to accept that's what the ending is.

Which is why its looked down upon by the writing community

[Erield]

P47 ace wrote...

ok I know some people don't like the idea of indoc theory, and for differant reasons (mostly illogical ones), but there is one that i hear a lot that makes sence but i still have to ask Why

Do you even know what the word "illogical" means?  Just because you disagree doesn't make it illogical.  (Btw, from the perspective of a consumer who doesn't like to waste money, rabidly demanding IT is what's illogical.  I'm not saying that you are, or that most are, but there's at least a couple of IT proponents that are.  And it's stupid.  See point 3.)

1.  IT doesn't help the game not suck.  IT is rejecting material that we have been presented whole-sale, with the hopes that something will come along later to make it all better.  IT is denial, a coping mechanism. 

2.  What happens immediately after you pick destroy, have high EMS, and thus get to live?  Oh, that's right, Harby shoots you again, but this time you die.  Or maybe there's an army of husks that come and kill you.  Or, best-case scenario, somehow they work in a believable situation where Shepard lives, and then goes on to defeat all the Reapers--but they do this only through scenes that add clarification and closure to what already happened.  How will the very different endings be implemented?  How will there be victory without a giant "Reaper Off" button?  How is Shepard going to get the Crucible to dock, and figure out how to fire it, and what it does?  Again, IT cuts away portions of the game, and relies upon more being added to it in order to make it good--it is not good in and of itself.

3.  IT is also the fervent wish and desire for a game company to sell you an unfinished product, then charge you later to get the real endings.  Yes, yes, they're giving it to us for free--this time.  What about the next game?  And the one after that?  Bioware is owned by EA (or something similar to that.  EA's the publisher or whatever.)  EA will do anything in its power to get money from you.  You are telling them that it's okay to not finish a product.  A large number of you would even be willing to pay for the said "real ending."  It is stupid, complete and utter stupid on the part of the consumer to tell companies to do shoddy work and charge you twice for it, and that you'd be okay with that.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

P47 ace wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

IT means that I just paid 100 bucks to have a company punk me of an ending they sold the game based upon. It wouldn't be quite as obnoxious if the rest of the game was up to par, which it isn't.

So you still have an unfinished game, with a crappy ending
how dose that make you feel?

How is it unfinished in that case? Just because the ending is rushed and crappy doesn't mean it's not an incomplete product as intended by the creators. The game is certainly unfinished if the IT is true, as we don't have an ending at all in that scenario.

[Mcfly616]

LucasShark wrote...

P47 ace wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

IT means that I just paid 100 bucks to have a company punk me of an ending they sold the game based upon. It wouldn't be quite as obnoxious if the rest of the game was up to par, which it isn't.

So you still have an unfinished game, with a crappy ending
how dose that make you feel?

IT isn't an ending either

Exactly. But the ending we got isn't an "ending" either.....IT just gives Bioware a chance to make a better one.....


Oh....


You'd rather have the crappy one you have now? Weird....

[Taboo]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

P47 ace wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

IT means that I just paid 100 bucks to have a company punk me of an ending they sold the game based upon. It wouldn't be quite as obnoxious if the rest of the game was up to par, which it isn't.

So you still have an unfinished game, with a crappy ending
how dose that make you feel?

How is it unfinished in that case? Just because the ending is rushed and crappy doesn't mean it's not an incomplete product as intended by the creators. The game is certainly unfinished if the IT is true, as we don't have an ending at all in that scenario.

It wouldn't even make sense to start it that way.

Shepard is hardly in any condition to be doing much of anything pertaining to badassery.

[dunre646]

Rombomm wrote...

dunre646 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's just bad. It happens. All. The. Time.

The only thing that has kept the IT alive is an extreme case of cult like behavior and confirmation bias.

so you have a real counter argument to it?

There are plenty of counter arguments, a few of which have already been posted here.

It's just hard to argue with somebody who refuses to listen.

i would love for the IT to be disproven but i'm yet to see a real counter argment to it.

[Lookout1390]

dunre646 wrote...

Rombomm wrote...

dunre646 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's just bad. It happens. All. The. Time.

The only thing that has kept the IT alive is an extreme case of cult like behavior and confirmation bias.

so you have a real counter argument to it?

There are plenty of counter arguments, a few of which have already been posted here.

It's just hard to argue with somebody who refuses to listen.

i would love for the IT to be disproven but i'm yet to see a real counter argment to it.

My only concern is that what will Shepard do then? He was still grazed by a Reaper beam, and he is no condition to fight.

He fought off indoctrination, but the fight for surival has already begun, and they are way past the point of no return.

Modifié par Lookout1390, 04 juin 2012 - 02:21 .

[LucasShark]

Mcfly616 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

P47 ace wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

IT means that I just paid 100 bucks to have a company punk me of an ending they sold the game based upon. It wouldn't be quite as obnoxious if the rest of the game was up to par, which it isn't.

So you still have an unfinished game, with a crappy ending
how dose that make you feel?

IT isn't an ending either

Exactly. But the ending we got isn't an "ending" either.....IT just gives Bioware a chance to make a better one.....


Oh....


You'd rather have the crappy one you have now? Weird....

No: I'd rather have a not crappy ending.  How hard is that to grasp?

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Mcfly616 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

P47 ace wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

IT means that I just paid 100 bucks to have a company punk me of an ending they sold the game based upon. It wouldn't be quite as obnoxious if the rest of the game was up to par, which it isn't.

So you still have an unfinished game, with a crappy ending
how dose that make you feel?

IT isn't an ending either

Exactly. But the ending we got isn't an "ending" either.....IT just gives Bioware a chance to make a better one.....


Oh....


You'd rather have the crappy one you have now? Weird....

I can't speak for LucasShark but choosing between the two for me personally, yes absolutely. Hoping for IT to be true is hoping that maybe, MAYBE you will get the real content later. Taking the endings as we are, we are absolutely going to get clarification on them soon, maybe it'll make it suck less, maybe it won't. Either way, we'll absolutely have an actual ending that doesn't require a desperate grab for emergency induction ports.

Modifié par TsaiMeLemoni, 04 juin 2012 - 02:18 .

[dunre646]

Taboo-XX wrote...

dunre646 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's just bad. It happens. All. The. Time.

The only thing that has kept the IT alive is an extreme case of cult like behavior and confirmation bias.

so you have a real counter argument to it?

Heaven's Gate

Novecento (1900)

Alien Ressurection

These kinds of things happen in Hollywood all the time.

Someone thinks they have something badass and it turns out to be just plain bad.

You present a fallacious argument with your post. You are no different than a deeply religious person asking me to disprove the Bible.

The answer is irrelevant.

Occam's Razor dictates that the simplest answer is almost always the correct one.

In our case, we just have a complete crap shoot.

i would love for the IT to be disproven but this is the kind of thing i'm talking about. 

one side the the debate has presented it's agurement based on what they have seen in the game and the other side is it's just bad writing.

to me both sides are as bad as the other and it hope the EC sorts this mess out.

[Alchema]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

P47 ace wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

IT means that I just paid 100 bucks to have a company punk me of an ending they sold the game based upon. It wouldn't be quite as obnoxious if the rest of the game was up to par, which it isn't.

So you still have an unfinished game, with a crappy ending
how dose that make you feel?

IT isn't an ending either

Exactly. But the ending we got isn't an "ending" either.....IT just gives Bioware a chance to make a better one.....


Oh....


You'd rather have the crappy one you have now? Weird....

I can't speak for LucasShark but choosing between the two for me personally, yes absolutely. Hoping for IT to be true is hoping that maybe, MAYBE you will get the real content later. Taking the endings as we are, we are absolutely going to get clarification on them soon, maybe it'll make it suck less, maybe it won't. Either way, we'll absolutely have an actual ending that doesn't require a desperate grab for emergency induction ports.

Haha, Tali reference.  Anyways, all I really want is a happy ending. Just seeing everyone in the galaxy, all those people we helped, happy.

[P47 ace]

By illogical i meant is that some would say IT can't explain (blank) and then be proven wrong, and then Rage quit with "i still don't ike it"

IT theory is a path to an end, a path to logic, it is not an end but it is a path to a better one than we got

it is a brige from crap to potencal gold

Modifié par P47 ace, 04 juin 2012 - 02:25 .

[shepskisaac]

dunre646 wrote...

i would love for the IT to be disproven but i'm yet to see a real counter argment to it.

Bioware says it loud and clear in the end message screen that Shepard ended the Reaper threat in all endings. There was no 'losing' to Indoctrination in any ending.

P47 ace wrote...

By illogical i meant is that some would say IT can't explain (blank) and then be proven wrong, and then Rage quit with "i still don't ike it"

IT theory is a path to an end, a path to logic, it is not an end but it is a path to a better one than we got

it is a brige from crap to potencal gold

And it just won't happen. EC is already in advanced production. They won't scrap it and start creating IT ending

Modifié par IsaacShep, 04 juin 2012 - 02:28 .

[George-Kinsill]

My main problem is the precedent it would set. If other companies adopt this *cough, Asura's Wrath * cough, it would screw over everyone who doesn't have internet connection (or quality internet connection) to download the EC.

[killage_wizard]

xsdob wrote...

I don't like IT because it invalidates my philosophical views about my ending choice. I choose control because I do not believe that power corrupts absolutely, but that it is the wilder who is responsible. Like thane said, if a person who has a gun chooses to kill someone with it, do you blame the gun or the wielder of the gun? Shepard is a good person, hell a great freaking person, someone's whose done the impossible and achieved what no one else could. I trust him to wield great power responsibly and have faith he can do so without becoming a genocidal monster. Control also falls into my favorite type of fiction, a character who uses a power seen as evil and manages to use it for good, I love that and I rarely see it implemented at all.

The IT would have my sheapard a husk or indoctrinated, and he would need to kill himself not for a noble goal or for the good of all races but because my own philosophy was thought to be wrong by someone else and they felt the need to punish me for having a certain world view.

That's almost the point, and if true IT's brilliance.  It says your philosphical views got you indoctrinated.  Thane is right about the gun, but you trust Thane.  Why believe a hologram you just met that tells you something that has been hammered into the plots of the two previous games, and up until the last five minutes of ME3?  Which is that the Reapers cannot be controlled and cannot be trusted.

Modifié par killage_wizard, 04 juin 2012 - 02:29 .

[dunre646]

IsaacShep wrote...

dunre646 wrote...

i would love for the IT to be disproven but i'm yet to see a real counter argment to it.

Bioware says it loud and clear in the end message screen that Shepard ended the Reaper threat in all endings. There was no 'losing' to Indoctrination in any ending.

now that is the kind of thing i want to see from those that don't buy into the IT