496 réponses à ce sujet

[killage_wizard]

IsaacShep wrote...

dunre646 wrote...

i would love for the IT to be disproven but i'm yet to see a real counter argment to it.

Bioware says it loud and clear in the end message screen that Shepard ended the Reaper threat in all endings. There was no 'losing' to Indoctrination in any ending.

P47 ace wrote...

By illogical i meant is that some would say IT can't explain (blank) and then be proven wrong, and then Rage quit with "i still don't ike it"

IT theory is a path to an end, a path to logic, it is not an end but it is a path to a better one than we got

it is a brige from crap to potencal gold

And it just won't happen. EC is already in advanced production. They won't scrap it and start creating IT ending

But if IT is what they meant to do, and the EC confirms it, they aren't actually scrapping anything.

[davishepard]

dunre646 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

dunre646 wrote...

i would love for the IT to be disproven but i'm yet to see a real counter argment to it.

Bioware says it loud and clear in the end message screen that Shepard ended the Reaper threat in all endings. There was no 'losing' to Indoctrination in any ending.

now that is the kind of thing i want to see from those that don't buy into the IT

That's not the first time the picture is posted, and is obvious that IT believers also saw it, and ignore it totally.

[legbamel]

P47 ace wrote...

davishepard wrote...

P47 ace wrote...
We have yet to see a better more logical solution to the illogical mess that is the ending
pertty much every angle has been worked over time and time again and IT theory has been the most logical to work with the lore of the universe

I you have a solution that trumps IT theory i would love to hear it

The most logical way to understand the ending is face it at face value, not create a dream theory and believe on it because you can't deal with the reality.

Face Value?

from a series that has a history of explaining things in such find detial down to the science behind the Sci-Fi stuff, at the Greatest infacsis on NPC's is the history of gaming, to probably the greatest video story of all time.

the ending throws all of that into i black hole, and replaces it with
NO logic
No details
No coherance
NO explaintion
and did i mention
NO LOGIC

Pardon me if I'm misreading you, but are you saying that there were no plotholes or space magic in the first two games?  Clearly I missed a few codex entries, if that's the case.

I'm with some of the others here: It Was All a Dream is the cheapest, laziest way to get out of any plot mess you've made and I want to believe BioWare can do better than that.  Sure, it'd have been nice if they had in the first place but as long as they get the Normandy back in the right star system I can work with just about anything the EC offers.

[silentassassin264]

P47 ace wrote...

1) unfinshed game that sucks
or
2) unfinshed game that dose not suck

the chioce is your's

Or you know
3) a finished game that was pretty darn good.

Just because you hated the ending doesn't mean everyone did.

[Omanisat]

George-Kinsill wrote...

My main problem is the precedent it would set. If other companies adopt this *cough, Asura's Wrath * cough, it would screw over everyone who doesn't have internet connection (or quality internet connection) to download the EC.

This. I don't have have broadband. EC, IT, doesn't do JS for me. I'm stuck with the crappy ending bioware sold me.

[CuseGirl]

Erield wrote...

P47 ace wrote...

ok I know some people don't like the idea of indoc theory, and for differant reasons (mostly illogical ones), but there is one that i hear a lot that makes sence but i still have to ask Why

Do you even know what the word "illogical" means?  Just because you disagree doesn't make it illogical.  (Btw, from the perspective of a consumer who doesn't like to waste money, rabidly demanding IT is what's illogical.  I'm not saying that you are, or that most are, but there's at least a couple of IT proponents that are.  And it's stupid.  See point 3.)

1.  IT doesn't help the game not suck.  IT is rejecting material that we have been presented whole-sale, with the hopes that something will come along later to make it all better.  IT is denial, a coping mechanism. 

2.  What happens immediately after you pick destroy, have high EMS, and thus get to live?  Oh, that's right, Harby shoots you again, but this time you die.  Or maybe there's an army of husks that come and kill you.  Or, best-case scenario, somehow they work in a believable situation where Shepard lives, and then goes on to defeat all the Reapers--but they do this only through scenes that add clarification and closure to what already happened.  How will the very different endings be implemented?  How will there be victory without a giant "Reaper Off" button?  How is Shepard going to get the Crucible to dock, and figure out how to fire it, and what it does?  Again, IT cuts away portions of the game, and relies upon more being added to it in order to make it good--it is not good in and of itself.

3.  IT is also the fervent wish and desire for a game company to sell you an unfinished product, then charge you later to get the real endings.  Yes, yes, they're giving it to us for free--this time.  What about the next game?  And the one after that?  Bioware is owned by EA (or something similar to that.  EA's the publisher or whatever.)  EA will do anything in its power to get money from you.  You are telling them that it's okay to not finish a product.  A large number of you would even be willing to pay for the said "real ending."  It is stupid, complete and utter stupid on the part of the consumer to tell companies to do shoddy work and charge you twice for it, and that you'd be okay with that.

THIS.

If IT is "true" and Shepard wakes up in that pile of rubble...what's he gonna do? Get up with 25% of his armor and do what? Still somehow run into the Conduit? Without getting killed? Also, since the EC isn't offering new gameplay and will apparently not actually CHANGE the ending, that means any other DLC that will make IT true will probably be something we pay for. I have a hard time believing we will get a 2nd free DLC. I'm not paying for the real ending. I won't. It's wrong. And I don't care how much money EA makes off other jack-offs with that scheme, I won't be a part of it.

[dunre646]

davishepard wrote...

dunre646 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

dunre646 wrote...

i would love for the IT to be disproven but i'm yet to see a real counter argment to it.

Bioware says it loud and clear in the end message screen that Shepard ended the Reaper threat in all endings. There was no 'losing' to Indoctrination in any ending.

now that is the kind of thing i want to see from those that don't buy into the IT

That's not the first time the picture is posted, and is obvious that IT believers also saw it, and ignore it totally.

IT believers can explain it away, eg bioware not waiting to last the cat out of the bag.  however it does support the ending is meant to be taken at face value

[Hackulator]

I think I've reached the point where I just pity the majority of the people on this forum for not being able to enjoy something wonderful.

[Clayless]

Wow that was a crazy dream!

Oh snap I'm heavily indoctrinated and Harbinger is still above me!!!

[Tov01]

P47 ace wrote...

If you have a solution that trumps IT theory i would love to hear it

Well, this is my own head cannon: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10578632

I kind of doubt that you'll think that it is better than IT, but at least you can't say that IT is the only way to make sense of the ending.

[killage_wizard]

davishepard wrote...

dunre646 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

dunre646 wrote...

i would love for the IT to be disproven but i'm yet to see a real counter argment to it.

Bioware says it loud and clear in the end message screen that Shepard ended the Reaper threat in all endings. There was no 'losing' to Indoctrination in any ending.

now that is the kind of thing i want to see from those that don't buy into the IT

That's not the first time the picture is posted, and is obvious that IT believers also saw it, and ignore it totally.

I never ignore it when someone brings it up.  Number one it does not say how or when he ended the Reaper threat.  It would be different if the message was specific to your choice, but its vague.  Just like the shot of the old guy and the kid.  The details were lost.  Why be so vague about it.  It would not have been hard to have Buzz Aldrin reccord three different messages depending on your choice.  Two it could be just a red herring.  Really its just an ad for future DLC that breaks the 4th wall, and I'm not sure that allows it to be used to dispprove what could be a hidden piece of the plot.  Just like deleted scenes from Alien can't be used to argue Aliens is not cannon to the series (they contrdict the existance of a Queen in Aliens if you haven't seen them)

[EsterCloat]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Wow that was a crazy dream!

Oh snap I'm heavily indoctrinated and Harbinger is still above me!!!

Dont worry! Shepard is awesome and broke out of indoctrination! He mind fights Harbinger and wins and makes him fight for the good guys! Then the Normandy swoops in and drops Shepard more armor to fight on! Woo!

[Mcfly616]

LucasShark wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

P47 ace wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

IT means that I just paid 100 bucks to have a company punk me of an ending they sold the game based upon. It wouldn't be quite as obnoxious if the rest of the game was up to par, which it isn't.

So you still have an unfinished game, with a crappy ending
how dose that make you feel?

IT isn't an ending either

Exactly. But the ending we got isn't an "ending" either.....IT just gives Bioware a chance to make a better one.....


Oh....


You'd rather have the crappy one you have now? Weird....

No: I'd rather have a not crappy ending.  How hard is that to grasp?

And the IT creates the opportunity for Bioware to take the story anywhere they imagine....possibly making a "not crappy" ending......how hard is that to grasp?

[P47 ace]

legbamel wrote...

P47 ace wrote...

davishepard wrote...

P47 ace wrote...
We have yet to see a better more logical solution to the illogical mess that is the ending
pertty much every angle has been worked over time and time again and IT theory has been the most logical to work with the lore of the universe

I you have a solution that trumps IT theory i would love to hear it

The most logical way to understand the ending is face it at face value, not create a dream theory and believe on it because you can't deal with the reality.

Face Value?

from a series that has a history of explaining things in such find detial down to the science behind the Sci-Fi stuff, at the Greatest infacsis on NPC's is the history of gaming, to probably the greatest video story of all time.

the ending throws all of that into i black hole, and replaces it with
NO logic
No details
No coherance
NO explaintion
and did i mention
NO LOGIC

Pardon me if I'm misreading you, but are you saying that there were no plotholes or space magic in the first two games?  Clearly I missed a few codex entries, if that's the case.

I'm with some of the others here: It Was All a Dream is the cheapest, laziest way to get out of any plot mess you've made and I want to believe BioWare can do better than that.  Sure, it'd have been nice if they had in the first place but as long as they get the Normandy back in the right star system I can work with just about anything the EC offers.

ME1's only real plot holes are the Time spans between differant charators stories prior to there arrivel into the plot
IE Tali got her MP3 "a few days ago" but we were at Eden Prime roughly 14-24 hours ago
and Anderson's Impications in to Sarien's motives/goals
IE "even Earth is not safe"

those are minor and can be ignored because of their insigifcance to the present Plot in ME1

ME2 has more but they are mainly Logic problems such as, Reconing the Omega 4 relay, and really being able to Skip from the Freedoms progess mission strait to dealect reaper mission because all other manditory missions add nothing to the advancement of the plot

[Lookout1390]

My only question is still this...If IT were to be true...does it mean Shepard is still laying on the ground in his same terrible condition?

Or would he be alright? Because if the first...then Shepard in no way can fight Harbinger in the current state he/she is.

[davishepard]

killage_wizard wrote...

I never ignore it when someone brings it up.  Number one it does not say how or when he ended the Reaper threat.  It would be different if the message was specific to your choice, but its vague.  Just like the shot of the old guy and the kid.  The details were lost.  Why be so vague about it.  It would not have been hard to have Buzz Aldrin reccord three different messages depending on your choice.  Two it could be just a red herring.  Really its just an ad for future DLC that breaks the 4th wall, and I'm not sure that allows it to be used to dispprove what could be a hidden piece of the plot.  Just like deleted scenes from Alien can't be used to argue Aliens is not cannon to the series (they contrdict the existance of a Queen in Aliens if you haven't seen them)

You ended the Reaper threat by finishing ME3.

The message isn't specific to any ending because any of the endings stops the Reaper threat.

[P47 ace]

Lookout1390 wrote...

My only question is still this...If IT were to be true...does it mean Shepard is still laying on the ground in his same terrible condition?

Or would he be alright? Because if the first...then Shepard in no way can fight Harbinger in the current state he/she is.

by the "easter egg" cut scene sheperds armor for the most part fully intact and he is under/next to building rubble thus he has been thrown a great distance back towards the building they came from, so away from harbi.

[Seboist]

P47 ace wrote...

ok I know some people don't like the idea of indoc theory, and for differant reasons (mostly illogical ones), but there is one that i hear a lot that makes sence but i still have to ask Why

Here it is, tell me if you have herd it
"IT means i bought an unfinished game"

Now i understand their resoning for saying this but look at it this way

Everyone knows the game was rushed out the door, so EA and friends could get their $$$$$$

So one, you already have an unfinshed product that Sucks beyond Sucking, and many other descriptions,

now IT still has this "unfinshed game that was already unfinshed" but it will help it NOT suck

so for the IT theory Haters out there you have 2 chioces

1) unfinshed game that sucks
or
2) unfinshed game that dose not suck

the chioce is your's

ME3 will still be a substandard shooter with meaningless choices and an abysmal pulp shlock story even if you get your rainbows and roses ending with your space waifu brah.

[UrgentArchengel]

Sigh...here we go again.
Anti-IT:Why are you such a freaking zealot? Quit acting like a crackpot conspiricy nut!
Pro-IT:Well maybe your just too much of an idiot to actually understand. Look at this evidence, it just can't be coincidence.
Anti-IT:How dare you mock my intelligence you troll!
Pro-IT:First off, your the troll for starting it, and second you completely missed the part about evidence.
Anti-IT:Because there is no evidence you quack. God I hate you IT people. You bring my ****** to a boil. This is why I don't like IT. It's because of it's Dogmatic believers! They just keep insulting my intellegence!

Seriously people, what the hell is up with all of you. First off. Anti-IT's, they are called trolls, get used to it. By acting just like them your insulting you own intelligence. Pro-IT's. Maybe it's best to just leave IT stuff for the IT thread. Less clutter for the mods anyway. Sheesh, it's like watching Kindergarden kids bicker.

[Oni Changas]

Zardoc wrote...

What I don't get about IT supporters (maybe not all, but a whole lot of them) is how they think their THEORY = THE ONE AND ONLY TRUTH. You remind me of religious zealots.

IT is damn near consensus, so much so, that Mr. Chris Priestly himself went to HTL Forums and asked TWICE about it. I'm not saying it's true or fact but it's pretty clear that they are taking cues from it.

[P47 ace]

davishepard wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

I never ignore it when someone brings it up.  Number one it does not say how or when he ended the Reaper threat.  It would be different if the message was specific to your choice, but its vague.  Just like the shot of the old guy and the kid.  The details were lost.  Why be so vague about it.  It would not have been hard to have Buzz Aldrin reccord three different messages depending on your choice.  Two it could be just a red herring.  Really its just an ad for future DLC that breaks the 4th wall, and I'm not sure that allows it to be used to dispprove what could be a hidden piece of the plot.  Just like deleted scenes from Alien can't be used to argue Aliens is not cannon to the series (they contrdict the existance of a Queen in Aliens if you haven't seen them)

You ended the Reaper threat by finishing ME3.

The message isn't specific to any ending because any of the endings stops the Reaper threat.

but to follow with the rest of the series it HAS too, for the sake of Literary cohestion

[shepskisaac]

killage_wizard wrote...

I never ignore it when someone brings it up.  Number one it does not say how or when he ended the Reaper threat.

But according to IT Shep becomes indoctrinated/dies in Blue/Green ending so he couldn't stop the Reaper threat if he was already dead/lost to indotrination. ITers have been arguing that Shep failed in all endings but the best Destroy, so he can't suddenly succeed lol.

[jijeebo]

Lookout1390 wrote...

My only question is still this...If IT were to be true...does it mean Shepard is still laying on the ground in his same terrible condition?

Or would he be alright? Because if the first...then Shepard in no way can fight Harbinger in the current state he/she is.

*download EC*
"Oh my GOD, I'm so excited!"

*load ME3*
"So close!"

*replay exact same endings*
"Huh, where is the clarification?"

*breath scene happens Shepard begins to sit up*
"ZOMG HERE WE GO, INDOC ALL THE WAY!!!"

*Harbinger blasts Shepard in the face with a lazer as the Crucible explodes up above*
"Wha..."

*10 minute epilogue consisting of Reapers systematically wiping out all the races and completing the cycle*
"Bu..."

*Reapers return to dark space*

*End credits*

"DAFUQ!?!"


*Stargazer scene loads, only the planet is on fire and they're both dead*
":crying:"


Yeah, IT is going to be so much better.

[killage_wizard]

CuseGirl wrote...

If IT is "true" and Shepard wakes up in that pile of rubble...what's he gonna do? Get up with 25% of his armor and do what? Still somehow run into the Conduit? Without getting killed? Also, since the EC isn't offering new gameplay and will apparently not actually CHANGE the ending, that means any other DLC that will make IT true will probably be something we pay for. I have a hard time believing we will get a 2nd free DLC. I'm not paying for the real ending. I won't. It's wrong. And I don't care how much money EA makes off other jack-offs with that scheme, I won't be a part of it.

If you chose destory, get on the radio an tell Hackett to destroy the crucible.   May if the catalyst is destoryed then the Repears are destoryed.

If you choose control maybe thereis a cut scene where Shepard is the catalyst giving the same three options to a different person (maybe an evoled yahg) 50,000 years from now.

If you choose synthesis maybe crucible acts as a giant Indoc amplifyer, and they use Sherpards voice to Indoc the entire galaxy's fleet (who just so happens to be at earth at the moment) at one time.  I have no problem if Bioware sets up a sccenario where the Reapers actually win.

All this can be done with cut scenes.  And how is paying for a true ending any different then paying for Javik?  I wouldn't consider the game complete without him.  The same with Katsumi and Zaeed in ME2.

[xsdob]

killage_wizard wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I don't like IT because it invalidates my philosophical views about my ending choice. I choose control because I do not believe that power corrupts absolutely, but that it is the wilder who is responsible. Like thane said, if a person who has a gun chooses to kill someone with it, do you blame the gun or the wielder of the gun? Shepard is a good person, hell a great freaking person, someone's whose done the impossible and achieved what no one else could. I trust him to wield great power responsibly and have faith he can do so without becoming a genocidal monster. Control also falls into my favorite type of fiction, a character who uses a power seen as evil and manages to use it for good, I love that and I rarely see it implemented at all.

The IT would have my sheapard a husk or indoctrinated, and he would need to kill himself not for a noble goal or for the good of all races but because my own philosophy was thought to be wrong by someone else and they felt the need to punish me for having a certain world view.

That's almost the point, and if true IT's brilliance.  It says your philosphical views got you indoctrinated.  Thane is right about the gun, but you trust Thane.  Why believe a hologram you just met that tells you something that has been hammered into the plots of the two previous games, and up until the last five minutes of ME3?  Which is that the Reapers cannot be controlled and cannot be trusted.

So it's a more ellaborate way of saying "**** you for thinking the way you do, now conform to my way of thinking or you don't get a good ending"

If I wanted that kind of treatment, I'd walk up to a hardline christan church and announce, "Hey everyone! I'm an agonostic!" and watch as they say how I'm going to go to hell for not believeing what they believe.