496 réponses à ce sujet

[killage_wizard]

killage_wizard wrote...

CuseGirl wrote...

If IT is "true" and Shepard wakes up in that pile of rubble...what's he gonna do? Get up with 25% of his armor and do what? Still somehow run into the Conduit? Without getting killed? Also, since the EC isn't offering new gameplay and will apparently not actually CHANGE the ending, that means any other DLC that will make IT true will probably be something we pay for. I have a hard time believing we will get a 2nd free DLC. I'm not paying for the real ending. I won't. It's wrong. And I don't care how much money EA makes off other jack-offs with that scheme, I won't be a part of it.

If you chose destory, get on the radio an tell Hackett to destroy the crucible.   May if the catalyst is destroyed then the Repears are destroyed.

If you choose control maybe thereis a cut scene where Shepard is the catalyst giving the same three options to a different person (maybe an evoled yahg) 50,000 years from now.

If you choose synthesis maybe crucible acts as a giant Indoc amplifyer, and they use Sherpards voice to Indoc the entire galaxy's fleet (who just so happens to be at earth at the moment) at one time.  I have no problem if Bioware sets up a sccenario where the Reapers actually win.

All this can be done with cut scenes.  And how is paying for a true ending any different then paying for Javik?  I wouldn't consider the game complete without him.  The same with Katsumi and Zaeed in ME2.

[dunre646]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Sigh...here we go again.
Anti-IT:Why are you such a freaking zealot? Quit acting like a crackpot conspiricy nut!
Pro-IT:Well maybe your just too much of an idiot to actually understand. Look at this evidence, it just can't be coincidence.
Anti-IT:How dare you mock my intelligence you troll!
Pro-IT:First off, your the troll for starting it, and second you completely missed the part about evidence.
Anti-IT:Because there is no evidence you quack. God I hate you IT people. You bring my ****** to a boil. This is why I don't like IT. It's because of it's Dogmatic believers! They just keep insulting my intellegence!

Seriously people, what the hell is up with all of you. First off. Anti-IT's, they are called trolls, get used to it. By acting just like them your insulting you own intelligence. Pro-IT's. Maybe it's best to just leave IT stuff for the IT thread. Less clutter for the mods anyway. Sheesh, it's like watching Kindergarden kids bicker.

those some like the aniti IT defualt argument, discredit those that support it

[shepskisaac]

killage_wizard wrote...
All this can be done with cut scenes.  And how is paying for a true ending any different then paying for Javik?  I wouldn't consider the game complete without him.  The same with Katsumi and Zaeed in ME2.

Yeah hi, this is a game not a movie, I don't want to experience the actual true ending to the trilogy just as cutscenes

[killage_wizard]

xsdob wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I don't like IT because it invalidates my philosophical views about my ending choice. I choose control because I do not believe that power corrupts absolutely, but that it is the wilder who is responsible. Like thane said, if a person who has a gun chooses to kill someone with it, do you blame the gun or the wielder of the gun? Shepard is a good person, hell a great freaking person, someone's whose done the impossible and achieved what no one else could. I trust him to wield great power responsibly and have faith he can do so without becoming a genocidal monster. Control also falls into my favorite type of fiction, a character who uses a power seen as evil and manages to use it for good, I love that and I rarely see it implemented at all.

The IT would have my sheapard a husk or indoctrinated, and he would need to kill himself not for a noble goal or for the good of all races but because my own philosophy was thought to be wrong by someone else and they felt the need to punish me for having a certain world view.

That's almost the point, and if true IT's brilliance.  It says your philosphical views got you indoctrinated.  Thane is right about the gun, but you trust Thane.  Why believe a hologram you just met that tells you something that has been hammered into the plots of the two previous games, and up until the last five minutes of ME3?  Which is that the Reapers cannot be controlled and cannot be trusted.

So it's a more ellaborate way of saying "**** you for thinking the way you do, now conform to my way of thinking or you don't get a good ending"

If I wanted that kind of treatment, I'd walk up to a hardline christan church and announce, "Hey everyone! I'm an agonostic!" and watch as they say how I'm going to go to hell for not believeing what they believe.

Its an elborate way of playing on one of the major plots points in the game.  The Reapers want to Indoc you.  You can think the Reapers are ccontrollable, but everything up until the point you are given that choice says otherwise.

[killage_wizard]

IsaacShep wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...
All this can be done with cut scenes.  And how is paying for a true ending any different then paying for Javik?  I wouldn't consider the game complete without him.  The same with Katsumi and Zaeed in ME2.

Yeah hi, this is a game not a movie, I don't want to experience the actual true ending to the trilogy just as cutscenes

So you don't want the EC at all?  Because that's what the EC is.  Even if it doesn't prove I.T. its still the true ending.

[Taboo]

killage_wizard wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...
All this can be done with cut scenes.  And how is paying for a true ending any different then paying for Javik?  I wouldn't consider the game complete without him.  The same with Katsumi and Zaeed in ME2.

Yeah hi, this is a game not a movie, I don't want to experience the actual true ending to the trilogy just as cutscenes

So you don't want the EC at all?  Because that's what the EC is.  Even if it doesn't prove I.T. its still the true ending.

Uh, no.

If you'd been paying attention to the real world and not the IT people, you'd understand by now that the EC is not going to be a few cutscenes.

[shepskisaac]

killage_wizard wrote...

So you don't want the EC at all?  Because that's what the EC is.  Even if it doesn't prove I.T. its still the true ending.

EC is additional cutscenes to already existing ending gameplay sections. What you propose is an ending with 3 movies that conclude a game and no gameplay.

[Versidious]

I don't hate IT - I used to believe it. I just don't think it's true any more. And I'm not particularly keen on ITists, either. They have a tendency to flame people, tell them they're being blind, and refer to those who consistently refuse to accept their beliefs as trolls. I once tried to have a discussion with the guy who made the Indoctrination Theory Documentary, and despite saying how much I liked his movie, and was just looking to get an answer to my questions, when I started trying to discuss some of the points he'd made, presenting alternative explanations to Indoctrination Theory, he quickly become rude, calling me a liar, an idiot, and worse. At no point did I imply he or IT was stupid. But that's how ITists generally seem to behave, and it really puts me off. I'm not saying you're that type of person necessarily, but the behaviour of a large amount of ITists really makes people fed up with them, and hence opposed to their beliefs.

But anyway, why don't I believe it? Well, the above screenshot, for starters. And the fact that there's really no reason for Bioware to trick us all in this way. Why wouldn't they have the resolution/reveal of IT included initially in the game? And when there was a huge uproar about the endings, why didn't they just say 'Relax guys, we have a plan regarding the ending. You'll get free downloads to complete the ending soon enough. In the mean time, enjoy speculating about it, we p[romise you'll be pleased.' No, instead they tell us they think the ending is great as is, that there'll be nothing further to do about it, and only reluctantly agree to EC after a month of review bombing and hate mail. ITists will say 'Well, of course they'd say that, it's all part of the plan.' But really, why? What do they gain, financially or artistically, by not giving us the IT reveal immediately? A lot of ITists seem to believe that Bioware doesn't do things by accident, that their writing and game-making skills are near-flawless. And yet, the rest of ME3 should have divested you of that notion, with Shepard and the Reapers all acting like idiots in the name of plot armour. And oh, the continuity errors...

All that having been said, why do I like IT? Because it's something that really should've happened at some point. It's a great idea, especially the notion that the player themselves is tricked into it. Though I am concerned about where the game could *actually* go from there, were it true. Pretty much every suggestion from an ITist, which they always call 'epic' or 'amazing' is just terrible. So, what, Shepard's actually fine? Or Shepard's grievously injured? What does Shepard do now? Repeat the same section, but this time for real? Get taken to hospital by his friends? Something entirely different? None of those ideas seem like they'd be as mind blowing as finding out you were fighting indoctrination. Anything following could only really be an anti-climax, in terms of narrative intensity and revelations. How would you exposit that effectively? Would you have Anderson just tell you everything? Or is everyone else who charged the beam actually definitely dead, squadmates included?

Hope that explains my position.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

jijeebo wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

My only question is still this...If IT were to be true...does it mean Shepard is still laying on the ground in his same terrible condition?

Or would he be alright? Because if the first...then Shepard in no way can fight Harbinger in the current state he/she is.

*download EC*
"Oh my GOD, I'm so excited!"

*load ME3*
"So close!"

*replay exact same endings*
"Huh, where is the clarification?"

*breath scene happens Shepard begins to sit up*
"ZOMG HERE WE GO, INDOC ALL THE WAY!!!"

*Harbinger blasts Shepard in the face with a lazer as the Crucible explodes up above*
"Wha..."

*10 minute epilogue consisting of Reapers systematically wiping out all the races and completing the cycle*
"Bu..."

*Reapers return to dark space*

*End credits*

"DAFUQ!?!"


*Stargazer scene loads, only the planet is on fire and they're both dead*
":crying:"


Yeah, IT is going to be so much better.

LOL if they really revealed IT to be true in that manner, I'd have to be ok with the ending just for the amusement factor.

In seriousness, if they do go the IT route I  just hope they do it in a way that makes sense. If it does, then great, but I am not seeing much evidence for it as it stands.

[Aaleel]

P47 ace wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

My only question is still this...If IT were to be true...does it mean Shepard is still laying on the ground in his same terrible condition?

Or would he be alright? Because if the first...then Shepard in no way can fight Harbinger in the current state he/she is.

by the "easter egg" cut scene sheperds armor for the most part fully intact and he is under/next to building rubble thus he has been thrown a great distance back towards the building they came from, so away from harbi.

So Shepard got blasted all the way back up the hill and back into the city where the building were?  <_<

This is one of the many reasons why the IT theory is a no-go for me.  It has a whole new set of questions of its own. 

But Shepard getting out of rubble, storming the Citadel, getting by Haringer, using a beam that is still on for whatever ridiculous reason, getting to and using the crucible before the reapers destroy it wouldn't be any better on its face than what we got originally.

Modifié par Aaleel, 04 juin 2012 - 03:07 .

[Taboo]

IsaacShep wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

So you don't want the EC at all?  Because that's what the EC is.  Even if it doesn't prove I.T. its still the true ending.

EC is additional cutscenes to already existing ending gameplay sections. What you propose is an ending with 3 movies that conclude a game and no gameplay.

He's been too busy living under the very large, news deafening IT rock.

[Leafs43]

I'd prefer to have a good ending worthy of the series even if it means waiting 6 months after release rather than have a crappy ending that burns the franchise to the ground.


People who would rather keep a crappy ending that burns the franchise to the ground should be ignored because they are fickle sausage heads who think it's a matter of principle to burn the franchise to the ground rather than save it.

Modifié par Leafs43, 04 juin 2012 - 03:11 .

[killage_wizard]

IsaacShep wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

I never ignore it when someone brings it up.  Number one it does not say how or when he ended the Reaper threat.

But according to IT Shep becomes indoctrinated/dies in Blue/Green ending so he couldn't stop the Reaper threat if he was already dead/lost to indotrination. ITers have been arguing that Shep failed in all endings but the best Destroy, so he can't suddenly succeed lol.

It still breaks the 4th wall though.  Like someone else said before why would they let the cat out of the bag right away if they really wanted to fool you.

[Leafs43]

IsaacShep wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

I never ignore it when someone brings it up.  Number one it does not say how or when he ended the Reaper threat.

But according to IT Shep becomes indoctrinated/dies in Blue/Green ending so he couldn't stop the Reaper threat if he was already dead/lost to indotrination. ITers have been arguing that Shep failed in all endings but the best Destroy, so he can't suddenly succeed lol.

IT says no such thing.



Your entire idea of IT is bass ackwards I wouldn't even know where to begin.

Modifié par Leafs43, 04 juin 2012 - 03:11 .

[shepskisaac]

Taboo-XX wrote...

He's been too busy living under the very large, news deafening IT rock.

Not to mnetion the pacing of such hypothetical ME3 with IT ending. That would be just awful, because the already existing ending scenes, even if they're 'fake'/dream already look and feel for all purpouses as a conclusion and ending scenes to a story. Everything from the music, to the editing, iconic/symbolic imaginery etc. Adding a SECOND set of cutscens after the already existing ones, with Reapers getting defeated again would just make the entire ending (dream + relaity) an unbearable cluster**** from a pacing/visual perspective.

[Taboo]

The ending choices are not the issue. Everything that follows is.

That can be fixed in the Extended Cut because that's what the game really needs.

And that reworked dialogue that Mr.Gamble talked about could help quite a bit when talking with the Catalyst.

[killage_wizard]

IsaacShep wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

So you don't want the EC at all?  Because that's what the EC is.  Even if it doesn't prove I.T. its still the true ending.

EC is additional cutscenes to already existing ending gameplay sections. What you propose is an ending with 3 movies that conclude a game and no gameplay.

So?  And according to Bioware no matter what it is the EC is nothing more thannew cinemtatics and epilogue scenes for each of the choices.

[jijeebo]

Leafs43 wrote...

I'd prefer to have a good ending worthy of the series even if it means waiting 6 months after release rather than have a crappy ending that burns the franchise to the ground.


People who would rather keep a crappy ending that burns the franchise to the ground should be ignored because they are fickle sausage heads who think it's a matter of principle to burn the franchise to the ground rather than save it.

I want the current endings clarified, expanded, personalised and epilogued... And the EC seems to be doing this so I'm hopeful that they'll address most of the issues currently present. And even if it's not that great it should still be a step in the right direction and somewhat better than the current scenario.

[shepskisaac]

killage_wizard wrote...

It still breaks the 4th wall though.  Like someone else said before why would they let the cat out of the bag right away if they really wanted to fool you.

So basically you're going back to "it was all part of the plan". Even though there absolutely no evidence to that, not even in a beta leak that contained internal documents of Bioware writers and spoiled pretty much everything else in the game.

Leafs43 wrote...

IT says no such thing.

Really. Then enlighten us unworthy ones.

[Leafs43]

IsaacShep wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

It still breaks the 4th wall though.  Like someone else said before why would they let the cat out of the bag right away if they really wanted to fool you.

So basically you're going back to "it was all part of the plan". Even though there absolutely no evidence to that, not even in a beta leak that contained internal documents of Bioware writers and spoiled pretty much everything else in the game.

Leafs43 wrote...

IT says no such thing.

Really. Then enlighten us unworthy ones.

IT from the get go says destroy is how to break out of indoctrination.


That is one of the core beliefs about the theory.  If you don't know that, you obviously haven't read a thing about IT.

[Taboo]

All the FAQ says is that there will be no new endings. That's it.

Anything in and around that is fair game. That PR statement was released in pre-production and was written by an online manager.

He doesn't work with the Developers.

[killage_wizard]

Taboo-XX wrote...

The ending choices are not the issue. Everything that follows is.

That can be fixed in the Extended Cut because that's what the game really needs.

And that reworked dialogue that Mr.Gamble talked about could help quite a bit when talking with the Catalyst.

The choices are the issue.  They are what made the ending suck (along with the catalyst).  Two of the options completely defy pre existing cannon that the series had laid out.

[shepskisaac]

Leafs43 wrote...

IT from the get go says destroy is how to break out of indoctrination.

That is one of the core beliefs about the theory.  If you don't know that, you obviously haven't read a thing about IT.

Yes, so Shepard didn't break out from Indoctrination in Blue/Green ending. So how could he end the Reaper threat in those endings, like Bioware says, if he didn't break out fro indoctrination?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 04 juin 2012 - 03:19 .

[Leafs43]

Taboo-XX wrote...

All the FAQ says is that there will be no new endings. That's it.

Anything in and around that is fair game. That PR statement was released in pre-production and was written by an online manager.

He doesn't work with the Developers.

The developers were in development far before EC was announced.