521 réponses à ce sujet

[ReflectedRed]

Hi, I have been playing ME since the first one released, you must be one of those arrogant players from Call of Duty, so you shouldn't order me to change my original class choice from ME 1, you shouldn't bash me or other ppl for using it and you shouldn't make stupid threads like these.

[Traim Eisenblut]

No. don't nerf them. OP is an idiot.

[WYLDMAXX]

CaptainAchilles wrote...

mrcanada wrote...

Bioware has already stated that the reload glitch is staying in the game. Period. It isn't exclusive to the Infiltrator class.

The reload glitch is BS. They should just make all reloads instant, and stop with glitch promotion or efficacy. Glitches are not ok.

Its not a glitch, its a feature.

[FuN DreeMax]

With time i spend in this forum i start to see one thing - all ppl who complain about classes OP (w.e. Infinators or rest) in coop game where you going to share money and exp with your team are simply idiots with some problems about how much points and which place they take in end of game.
This guy is one of them, he cant sleep well when superOPmegoInfi going to score more than him and kill more bots ^^

[jaydee114]

hey killerbadass.. here are two more recent posters that have given you the effort into replying to your "facts". i'd love to see you actually have a decent discussion/debate in response, instead of your usual ignoring/backpedalling/name calling. go ahead.. we'll wait.

ABjerre wrote...

Ikilledkillab wrote...
Fact: Tactical cloak is broken:

Its not a fact, as you have provided no hard evidence. So far its a claim.

Evidence 1: Reload glitch. You don't have to reload the weapon, you start a reload and cloak and it cancels the reload but your weapon is reloaded.

Applies to many classes and powers. Argument invalid.

Evidence 2: No matter how heavy your weapons are, if you cloak, fire a power (e.g. proxy mine) then shoot at an enemy your cooldown speed is always three seconds.

Applies to all powers that you toggle - like the flame thrower. Cooldown is duration dependant - its a mechanic, not a glitch. Evidence discarted.

Evidence 3: Even though the sixth option of tactical cloak allows you to fire a power and remain cloaked the cloak damage bonus applies even if you fire a proxy mine and then a couple of shots. Instead of breaking your cloak and losing the cloak bonus. your proxy mine and the few rounds you put out get the damage buff.

The power lingers after you break cloak no matter what. The talent you talk aout allows you to use a power without doing so, move on, and do something else. It is not meant to keep people from getting the cloak bonus after using a power, but instead enabeling them to wait before shooting when having used a power. Evidence discarted.

Evidence 4: The Geth Infiltrator gets a 80% cloak damage donus for sniper rifles, a 25% hunter mode bonus and a 22.5 Netowrke Ai bonus, that means your weapon does  227.5% damage. That is a huge bonus. Even the salarian infiltrator maxes out at over 200%.

The damage bonus is huge yes, but it applies to other classes as well. Krogans get a huge melee bonus damage too, allowing them to deal roughly the same damage. I dont even see how you think this is evidence?

Evidence 5: In most normal settings, infiltrators top the leaderboard. This is due to the class being overpowered and broken. That is also why it is so heavily played.

What do you mean normal settings? Yes, infiltrators are able to top the leaderboard, but so are many other classes. You have to provide some kind of proof before you can call any of your "evidence" factual.

Pleae fix the reload exploit/glitch, please fix the cloak allowing users to get damage bonuses on a power and weapons and please remove the extra 40% sniping bonus in tree 6. The 40% damage buff in tree 4 should be moved to tree 6.  A 40% damage buff, the ability to cloak and revive teammates, hide from enemies and perform objectives is more than enough for that power.

Please nerf the tactical cloak bioware. We need better balance in multiplayer and that would be the best way to start.

There is nothing to fix. This is all based on your personal oppinion, and all your "evidence" is mere claims or accusations.

capn233 wrote...

If you want to test the Krysae, take a Human Soldier and play it back to back with Krysae and BW and see what happens. This test assumes you aren't completely terrible with HS. Make sure you aren't just hiding in a corner all game behind your team.

Getting to the points made by the OP, I would say he isn't quite up to speed on the intricacies of the game.

Evidence 1: Reload canceling works for any class, and I greatly prefer using the medigel key. In addition the 3s min cooldown time for TC is actually longer than most reloads anyway. Granted, if you start them late then it does help... I still prefer medigel and is why I sneak in a Claymore shot in between cloaks most of the time.

Evidence 2: Somewhat true. If you go past using Cloak's minimum time, then you are into scaled cooldown time, which is indeed quite long with some of the heavier weapons. I do not think this in and of itself conveys an unfair advantage to Infiltrators, as in practice you are limited by damage taken (because you don't regen under cloak) and target acquisition anyway.

Evidence 3: The "fire a power under cloak" evolution is damn near useless. A better item of evidence would be to directly state this. There are two reasons for this. For one, you get a free power anyway without getting to Rank 6 as the cloak damage bonus is like 2s after you first break it. Secondly, probably at least half the people playing infiltrator extremely well are using shotguns and not even leveling cloak to Rank 6 for either choice. Personally, I have Rank 6 SR Damage even though I more commonly run Shotguns on my GI or SI... but it allows me to be better with SR's when I pick them up.

Evidence 4: I think those bonuses are calculated incorrectly because of the way the math actually works, but no big deal. Let's just assume GI actually gets a lot of damage bonuses (which you do). The penalty is reduced durability. Notice I did not say survivability, bc if you have good situational awareness you can work around that. But it isn't imba... You aren't getting your own combo explosions that do ridiculous damage unless you use a consumable for an ammo power.

Evidence 5: Infiltrators don't necessarily lead the leaderboards in every game. Granted, a well played one will lead if the others don't pick up the slack. A biotic combo squad can drop an infiltrator's score very quickly. I would recommend the adepts go practice more with their Carnifex because AA and DA and really HS should be able to run with an Infiltrator with some practice, most of the time anyway.

Part of the real reason they are so common is Infiltrator does not really depend much on teamwork and team synergy. That is the real reason many people use them in random games. You never know when you will end up on your own, or how many times people will expect you to revive them.

People complain that objective capping is a big advantage... in reality capping objectives usually reduces your score somewhat as an infiltrator since you aren't killing, and helps everyone else. I do not think this should be cited as some wonderful advantage only infiltrator's enjoy as it easily helps the entire team. Granted, it would be nice if there were objectives that also gave bonuses to other classes... say if the hack wave gave a hack bonus if you had Engineers, that would be pretty cool. Or if Soldiers had a movement bonus for carrying the "package," etc...

If anything there are two, perhaps three, changes that should be considered for infiltrators, and they aren't thrown around too much because most people clearly just don't know what they are talking about. Perhaps minimum cloak CD should be changed, but it should only be on the order of maybe 0.5 seconds. Next, instead of worrying about Rank 6 SR damage, consider mildly reducing the total "general" cloak bonus that you get at Rank 4. Lastly, one of the changes that they didn't need to make was reworking Proxi Mine right after GI came out. Perhaps a slight reduction in damage. However, reducing Proxi Mine damage will affect Turian Soldier, so it would be "better" to consider simply tweaking the cloak general purpose damage bonus instead.

Things that would not matter or be too extreme include manipulating the Rank 6 SR bonus (ineffective) or switching cloak to some long ass cooldown (break the class).

[Disciple888]

I just wish they'd fix the decloaking bug.

[Ikilledkillab]

@jaydee. Still at the ocean camping. Be here until Friday night. Those responses will be debunked easily when I get back to my MacBook.

[robarcool]

OMG, prepare for the OP's logic barrage!

[Glassjavv]

It would be crazy to nerf the infiltrator class. Their cloaking ability is all they have.

[Dwest43]

I'm always glad to see an infiltrator or two on a gold team. Yeah, they're probably the easiest class for me to use, but I'd rather be a Krogan Vanguard and smash/melt everything in sight. I'm kind of in the middle on the infiltrator nerfing. I hate nerfing things, but tactical cloaks cooldown is kinda fishy to me. It's the only class where weight has no effect. Just cloak before you use your power and bam!!! three second cooldown. I just think they bring all their powers on a target faster than any other overweight class which could be viewed as op.

[PensCeltsFan]

Haha OP is a nutter, everything this bloke types is utter madness. But he is alowed to have his opinions, no matter how . . . strange the may be, it is unfair to attack him for them.

[-Event-Horizon-]

Glassjavv wrote...

It would be crazy to nerf the infiltrator class. Their cloaking ability is all they have.

Ok lets set things straight to the 100's of comments i've read like this one, no where in this thread has anyone suggested the removing of TC, no one is even suggesting it to be nerfed into oblivion. All i would ask for is an increase to the cooldown (by atleast 3 seconds), the allowance of weapons to effect cooldown, or the ability for the damage buff to only effect 1 bullet (so that it isn't a more powerful version of Adrenaline rush or Marksman).

[Fox-snipe]

-Event-Horizon- wrote...

Glassjavv wrote...

It would be crazy to nerf the infiltrator class. Their cloaking ability is all they have.

Ok lets set things straight to the 100's of comments i've read like this one, no where in this thread has anyone suggested the removing of TC, no one is even suggesting it to be nerfed into oblivion. All i would ask for is an increase to the cooldown (by atleast 3 seconds), the allowance of weapons to effect cooldown, or the ability for the damage buff to only effect 1 bullet (so that it isn't a more powerful version of Adrenaline rush or Marksman).

You just indirectly "nerfed" the multi-shot Snipers into oblivion.

Why shouldn't Cloak give an increased bonus compared to Adrenaline rush?  Keep in mind that should only apply when using a Sniper anyway since that's all the rank 6 evolution applies to.

Soldiers are jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none when it comes to weapons.  They're supposed to focus on high firerate weapons to maximize Adrenaline Rush.  Infiltrators are supposed to focus on Snipers which, for the multi-shot variants, generally have much slower fire rates.  It's for exactly this reason Cloak's bonus has a lingering effect.  It's also why weapon weight is less of an issue to Infiltrators, otherwise there would be little reason to use a Sniper since it would destroy the ability to effectively revive and focus on objectives.

Modifié par Fox-snipe, 06 juin 2012 - 02:57 .

[PensCeltsFan]

Fox-snipe wrote...

You just indirectly "nerfed" the multi-shot Snipers into oblivion.

Why shouldn't Cloak give an increased bonus compared to Adrenaline rush?  Keep in mind that should only apply when using a Sniper anyway since that's all the rank 6 evolution applies to.

Soldiers are jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none when it comes to weapons.  They're supposed to focus on high firerate weapons to maximize Adrenaline Rush.  Infiltrators are supposed to focus on Snipers which, for the multi-shot variants, generally have much slower fire rates.  It's for exactly this reason Cloak's bonus has a lingering effect.  It's also why weapon weight is less of an issue to Infiltrators, otherwise there would be little reason to use a Sniper since it would destroy the ability to effectively revive and focus on objectives.

I think AR and marksman is better that TC cos it has like 5 seconds of effect. TC has like 1 second of bonus damage, plus TC stops shield regen.

[-Event-Horizon-]

Fox-snipe wrote...

-Event-Horizon- wrote...

Glassjavv wrote...

It would be crazy to nerf the infiltrator class. Their cloaking ability is all they have.

Ok lets set things straight to the 100's of comments i've read like this one, no where in this thread has anyone suggested the removing of TC, no one is even suggesting it to be nerfed into oblivion. All i would ask for is an increase to the cooldown (by atleast 3 seconds), the allowance of weapons to effect cooldown, or the ability for the damage buff to only effect 1 bullet (so that it isn't a more powerful version of Adrenaline rush or Marksman).

You just indirectly "nerfed" the multi-shot Snipers into oblivion.

Why shouldn't Cloak give an increased bonus compared to Adrenaline rush?  Keep in mind that should only apply when using a Sniper anyway since that's all the rank 6 evolution applies to.

Soldiers are jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none when it comes to weapons.  They're supposed to focus on high firerate weapons to maximize Adrenaline Rush.  Infiltrators are supposed to focus on Snipers which, for the multi-shot variants, generally have much slower fire rates.  It's for exactly this reason Cloak's bonus has a lingering effect.  It's also why weapon weight is less of an issue to Infiltrators, otherwise there would be little reason to use a Sniper since it would destroy the ability to effectively revive and focus on objectives.

while i partially agree with you, the first sentance is a bit melodramatic for me. Only my 3rd suggestion would ruin multishot snipers but oh well. Also even without TC's tier 6 power, it still does 20% more damage than adrenaline rush to all weapons. I am also sure the effect of the damge buff is more than 2 secs.  Thankyou for your feedback though. we all have an opinion i guess and for that i can respect your viewpoint.

Modifié par -Event-Horizon-, 06 juin 2012 - 03:18 .

[robarcool]

PensCeltsFan wrote...

Fox-snipe wrote...

You just indirectly "nerfed" the multi-shot Snipers into oblivion.

Why shouldn't Cloak give an increased bonus compared to Adrenaline rush?  Keep in mind that should only apply when using a Sniper anyway since that's all the rank 6 evolution applies to.

Soldiers are jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none when it comes to weapons.  They're supposed to focus on high firerate weapons to maximize Adrenaline Rush.  Infiltrators are supposed to focus on Snipers which, for the multi-shot variants, generally have much slower fire rates.  It's for exactly this reason Cloak's bonus has a lingering effect.  It's also why weapon weight is less of an issue to Infiltrators, otherwise there would be little reason to use a Sniper since it would destroy the ability to effectively revive and focus on objectives.

I think AR and marksman is better that TC cos it has like 5 seconds of effect. TC has like 1 second of bonus damage, plus TC stops shield regen.

No one cares. They are just going to shout that TC is overpowered.

[Cundu_Ertur]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Evidence 1: Reload glitch. You don't have to reload the weapon, you start a reload and cloak and it cancels the reload but your weapon is reloaded.

This is correct, but also incorrect. Every class has this. Start the reload, and as soon as the number changes do anything with an animation and there's the glitch.

Evidence 2: No matter how heavy your weapons are, if you cloak, fire a power (e.g. proxy mine) then shoot at an enemy your cooldown speed is always three seconds.

I actually agree with this. This breaks the balance between weight and powers. Leave it for SP, but just write it off that N7 mercenaries are stuck with the older model cloaks from ME2 with a fixed reset time based on weight. Makes sense lore wise, and balances things better. Forces players to choose 'do I take the mantis and cloak a lot, or the BW and not cloak so much?'

Evidence 3: Even though the sixth option of tactical cloak allows you to fire a power and remain cloaked the cloak damage bonus applies even if you fire a proxy mine and then a couple of shots. Instead of breaking your cloak and losing the cloak bonus. your proxy mine and the few rounds you put out get the damage buff.

I don't play geth or salarian sneaks often, so haven't played with prox mines much. But apparently mines and grenades don't break the cloak. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I've used it, certainly. However, even with the buff of the cloak neither stickies nor proxies have the oomph to kill like real grenades do. Stick two on an atlas and it maybe stagers for a second. Stick a sticky on a banshee, and you ought to get a trophy just for doing it. The only time I've managed was when I was trying to sticky a ravager and the banshee got in the way. But you still won't see 'player (sticky) Banshee' because it just tickles her.

Evidence 4: The Geth Infiltrator gets a 80% cloak damage donus for sniper rifles, a 25% hunter mode bonus and a 22.5 Netowrke Ai bonus, that means your weapon does  227.5% damage. That is a huge bonus. Even the salarian infiltrator maxes out at over 200%.

Assuming the Javelin is used (only geth sniper to get network AI bonus), which is UR and probably under-leveled. Also, not as good as the UR status would imply. This comes with the detriment of having hardly any shields. Geth go from dominating to decomposing in an eyeblink. Does allow a team mate to get the ever-desirable 15 revive medal.
I'm trying to work out how the salarian can get over 200%, though. No hunter mode, +90% under cloak (if taken, a salarian may opt for the extra ED from cloak so 50% in that case iirc), and then the standard weapon damage bonus, which again the salarian may skip to opt for power damage. ED is a good power and possibly the most useful one in the whole class.

Evidence 5: In most normal settings, infiltrators top the leaderboard. This is due to the class being overpowered and broken. That is also why it is so heavily played.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Also make the Krysae an assault weapon.

[GaryMaple]

The only thing I REALLY want is for Tactical Cloak to actually be used tactically like in the old games rather than just a big and quick damage boost.

[dirtdiver32318]

Did we not nerf enough??

[Schneidend]

Reload cancel has been part of the franchise since ME2. Christina Norman has said it was left in ME2 on purpose as a hidden trick for skilled players. The fact that it's easier to pull off now just by using a power or a consumable is a little odd, but I'm glad it's staying in.

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

Cry cry cry.

[dirtdiver32318]

SKiLLYWiLLY2 wrote...

Cry cry cry.

:crying:?

[ABjerre]

jaydee114 wrote...
hey killerbadass.. here are two more recent posters that have given you the effort into replying to your "facts". i'd love to see you actually have a decent discussion/debate in response, instead of your usual ignoring/backpedalling/name calling. go ahead.. we'll wait.

Thanks a lot for quoting me :-)

Yes, we will wait for response, but i have a feeling we may be waiting for some time though...

[Seneva]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Fact: Tactical cloak is broken:

Evidence 1: Reload glitch. You don't have to reload the weapon, you start a reload and cloak and it cancels the reload but your weapon is reloaded.

Evidence 2: No matter how heavy your weapons are, if you cloak, fire a power (e.g. proxy mine) then shoot at an enemy your cooldown speed is always three seconds.

Evidence 3: Even though the sixth option of tactical cloak allows you to fire a power and remain cloaked the cloak damage bonus applies even if you fire a proxy mine and then a couple of shots. Instead of breaking your cloak and losing the cloak bonus. your proxy mine and the few rounds you put out get the damage buff.

Evidence 4: The Geth Infiltrator gets a 80% cloak damage donus for sniper rifles, a 25% hunter mode bonus and a 22.5 Netowrke Ai bonus, that means your weapon does  227.5% damage. That is a huge bonus. Even the salarian infiltrator maxes out at over 200%.

Evidence 5: In most normal settings, infiltrators top the leaderboard. This is due to the class being overpowered and broken. That is also why it is so heavily played.

Pleae fix the reload exploit/glitch, please fix the cloak allowing users to get damage bonuses on a power and weapons and please remove the extra 40% sniping bonus in tree 6. The 40% damage buff in tree 4 should be moved to tree 6.  A 40% damage buff, the ability to cloak and revive teammates, hide from enemies and perform objectives is more than enough for that power.

Please nerf the tactical cloak bioware. We need better balance in multiplayer and that would be the best way to start.

1. No. It's present in EVERY shootergame made.
2. No. The longer you stay in cloak the longer the cooldown is.
3. Fire 1 power and remain cloaked is EXACTLY what the evolutions does. When you fire a weapon (after using a power) you are immediatly uncloaked but remain the damage bonus. It's intended that way.
4. Intended via evolutions.
5. Biased opinion not a fact.

Remove all that boni you are whining about will utterly destroy the class.

[Lee80]

 Evidence 1: Reload glitch. You don't have to reload the weapon, you start a reload and cloak and it cancels the reload but your weapon is reloaded.

All classes can do the weapon reload glitch, I have no idea where you were going with that.

Evidence 2: No matter how heavy your weapons are, if you cloak, fire a power (e.g. proxy mine) then shoot at an enemy your cooldown speed is always three seconds. 

The cooldown is based on how long you stay cloaked.  If you cloak and shoot of course it's going to be a fast reload, but if you stay cloaked the whole time, then it'll be a long reload based on load out.  Flammer works the same way.

Evidence 3: Even though the sixth option of tactical cloak allows you to fire a power and remain cloaked the cloak damage bonus applies even if you fire a proxy mine and then a couple of shots. Instead of breaking your cloak and losing the cloak bonus. your proxy mine and the few rounds you put out get the damage buff.

So things working they way they are supposed to is broken.    Not sure if you know what broken means.  

Evidence 4: The Geth Infiltrator gets a 80% cloak damage donus for sniper rifles, a 25% hunter mode bonus and a 22.5 Netowrke Ai bonus, that means your weapon does  227.5% damage. That is a huge bonus. Even the salarian infiltrator maxes out at over 200%.

hmmm...  It's a powerful attack formula when used with certain character types, is all I got from that.  Double damage from a sneak attack.  That never happens in games.  /sarcasm 

Evidence 5: In most normal settings, infiltrators top the leaderboard. This is due to the class being overpowered and broken. That is also why it is so heavily played.

LOL, again with the broken thing.  I think you probably are using it to mean over powered, which is extremely debatable...despite the fact that  people are saying it over and over again.  Performance varies by player.  I've seen infiltrators that are only good at dying.  I've seen them top the score board as well, but on avergage they are about the same as the other classes in my expereience.  

Even though I have seen some good arguments for adjusting tactical cloak, and would possibly go along with them- your evidence all seems pretty weak.  I suggest you let others fight for your cause that do it so much better.  

Modifié par Lee80alabama, 06 juin 2012 - 10:37 .