521 réponses à ce sujet

[AsheraII]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Fact: Tactical cloak is broken:

Evidence 1: Reload glitch. You don't have to reload the weapon, you start a reload and cloak and it cancels the reload but your weapon is reloaded.

Evidence 2: No matter how heavy your weapons are, if you cloak, fire a power (e.g. proxy mine) then shoot at an enemy your cooldown speed is always three seconds.

Evidence 3: Even though the sixth option of tactical cloak allows you to fire a power and remain cloaked the cloak damage bonus applies even if you fire a proxy mine and then a couple of shots. Instead of breaking your cloak and losing the cloak bonus. your proxy mine and the few rounds you put out get the damage buff.

Evidence 4: The Geth Infiltrator gets a 80% cloak damage donus for sniper rifles, a 25% hunter mode bonus and a 22.5 Netowrke Ai bonus, that means your weapon does  227.5% damage. That is a huge bonus. Even the salarian infiltrator maxes out at over 200%.

Evidence 5: In most normal settings, infiltrators top the leaderboard. This is due to the class being overpowered and broken. That is also why it is so heavily played.

Pleae fix the reload exploit/glitch, please fix the cloak allowing users to get damage bonuses on a power and weapons and please remove the extra 40% sniping bonus in tree 6. The 40% damage buff in tree 4 should be moved to tree 6.  A 40% damage buff, the ability to cloak and revive teammates, hide from enemies and perform objectives is more than enough for that power.

Please nerf the tactical cloak bioware. We need better balance in multiplayer and that would be the best way to start.

Infiltrators overpowered? Bring a pair of actually capable Biotics into the game, and there's simply
nothing left to do for the infiltrator except some stealthed nodehacking. Each of the two will end up with a score far beyond the infiltrators'. Yes, they have to work together to accomplish that, but guess what? This IS a co-op game!

[Lee80]

AsheraII wrote...

Infiltrators overpowered? Bring a pair of actually capable Biotics into the game, and there's simply
nothing left to do for the infiltrator except some stealthed nodehacking. Each of the two will end up with a score far beyond the infiltrators'. Yes, they have to work together to accomplish that, but guess what? This IS a co-op game!

It really does often seem a lot of these over power things come down to the simple fact that people want to force everyone to play a certain way.  You are completely correct though, adepts can out perform an infiltrator easily.  I'd wager so could a couple engineers that worked well together.  I love playing as all the different classes myself, and I really don't get why there's so much rage about infiltrators.  It's just overkill at this point.  

[ABjerre]

Lee80alabama wrote...

AsheraII wrote...

Infiltrators overpowered? Bring a pair of actually capable Biotics into the game, and there's simply
nothing left to do for the infiltrator except some stealthed nodehacking. Each of the two will end up with a score far beyond the infiltrators'. Yes, they have to work together to accomplish that, but guess what? This IS a co-op game!

It really does often seem a lot of these over power things come down to the simple fact that people want to force everyone to play a certain way.  You are completely correct though, adepts can out perform an infiltrator easily.  I'd wager so could a couple engineers that worked well together.  I love playing as all the different classes myself, and I really don't get why there's so much rage about infiltrators.  It's just overkill at this point.  

I very much agree with this. It seems that the general engine behind many of these posts is the same thought:
"This guy is playing something thats getting in my way, and he is good at it (if he wasn't, i wouldn't notice him). Or at least he is better at that than i am at what i do. Naturally what he does must be overpowered, and i must complain about it. Now!"

Not to blow my own horn, but so far, i have topped the charts with Adepts, Soldiers, Engeneers, Infiltrators and even Turian Sentinel with an M99 Sabre II on all difficulties and against a wider variety of teams than i care to mention. Thats proof enough to me that anything is capable of topping charts.

Modifié par ABjerre, 06 juin 2012 - 10:56 .

[AsheraII]

Lee80alabama wrote...

AsheraII wrote...

Infiltrators overpowered? Bring a pair of actually capable Biotics into the game, and there's simply
nothing left to do for the infiltrator except some stealthed nodehacking. Each of the two will end up with a score far beyond the infiltrators'. Yes, they have to work together to accomplish that, but guess what? This IS a co-op game!

It really does often seem a lot of these over power things come down to the simple fact that people want to force everyone to play a certain way.  You are completely correct though, adepts can out perform an infiltrator easily.  I'd wager so could a couple engineers that worked well together.  I love playing as all the different classes myself, and I really don't get why there's so much rage about infiltrators.  It's just overkill at this point.  

I do have a strong hunch where it comes from in the Infiltrator case. There's a tiny but vocal segment of gameplayers who simply don't like stealth classes in any game (not even in the first Thief game!). They deem it "unfair" if someone's "invisible" one way or another! Just look at the OP here: his suggestions all revolve around making stealth/cloak useless, basically ready for deletion. I've seen the same discussion in many games, if not EVERY game that has stealth mechanics: about every MMO, the Dragon Age games (single player!), The Elder Scrolls (single player!), Mass Effect 2 (single player!) & 3 (co-op only, no PvP!), back in the time of Thief 1 even, and that game was only singleplayer and was completely about stealth play!

So I'd really go with a very obvious reaction: "Don't like it? Make your own game!"

[Mocchi]

Maybe the players who complain are really homophobes and don't like the idea that a male infiltrator can go stealthing around with an invisible penis.

[Ikilledkillab]

Well, they wakened the GI a few percent with the latest patch. A good start.

[Ikilledkillab]

Its amazing how many people are anti infiltrator on this board granted the recent threads calling for nerfs. I am going to bump this everyday so BW gets the message.

[xXdmndmnXx]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Its amazing how many people are anti infiltrator on this board granted the recent threads calling for nerfs. I am going to bump this everyday so BW gets the message.

The reload glitch works with all classes. Not just the Infiltrator, on the other classes it's referred to as reload-cancel.

Even though i do play as an Infil at times, i do agree that the class might need some rebalancing.

However i've been in several games where non-infil classes top the scorebaords, it all depends on the person playing that class and their understanding of it's perks and weaknesses.

On a side note, seems you've been repeatedly outscored by Infiltrators haven't you?

[-Event-Horizon-]

I appreciate the effort made on your thread OP, though somehow i doubt we will ever see TC nerfed, People on these forums and Bioware are just too arrogant to contemplate or even participate in some sought of civilized discussion on the matter. Of course it doesn't help our cause for a nerf when you have 75% of the community playing as infiltrators most of the time (and thus are against it). I got kicked 3 times last night for not playing as a infiltrator class :S I'm N7 1050 dam it.

[Ikilledkillab]

-Event-Horizon- wrote...

I appreciate the effort made on your thread OP, though somehow i doubt we will ever see TC nerfed, People on these forums and Bioware are just too arrogant to contemplate or even participate in some sought of civilized discussion on the matter. Of course it doesn't help our cause for a nerf when you have 75% of the community playing as infiltrators most of the time (and thus are against it). I got kicked 3 times last night for not playing as a infiltrator class :S I'm N7 1050 dam it.

You are 100% corect and the only responses I received in here were biased nonsense. Take, my first point for example, about the reload glitch. Every single pro-infiltrator in here was SO QUICK to point out how it works with every class, as if I didnt know that. Maybe they thought they were "winning" the discussion by positing that tautological nonsense? They are missing the forest for the trees here.

You can reload glitch with an avenger but who cares on gold? Hell, you can reload glitch with 90% of the weapons and 90% of the classes and it doesn't matter. The only two classes the power is really OP on are the soldier with ARUSH (e.g. multiple AR claymore shots) or infiltrators with the cloak bonus.Other than that thre reload exploit is not OP.

When you get an insane cloak bonus, have no change in cooldown speed regadless of the weight/power of your weapon and have a VERY HIGH DPS weapon with low clip sized the reload exploit becomes a problem.

Yes you can reload exploit on all classes but on gold even a carnifex X doesn't make you OP. Its when you combine it with infiltrators. Reload cancelling with a BW when combined with all the other cloak exploits/bonuses is the problem.

But like I said, 90% of infiltrators, including most of those on this forum, still belong in silver.

[Ikilledkillab]

xXdmndmnXx wrote...

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Its amazing how many people are anti infiltrator on this board granted the recent threads calling for nerfs. I am going to bump this everyday so BW gets the message.

The reload glitch works with all classes. Not just the Infiltrator, on the other classes it's referred to as reload-cancel.

Even though i do play as an Infil at times, i do agree that the class might need some rebalancing.

However i've been in several games where non-infil classes top the scorebaords, it all depends on the person playing that class and their understanding of it's perks and weaknesses.

On a side note, seems you've been repeatedly outscored by Infiltrators haven't you?

I have posted countless screenshots where I top the leaderboards with an without using an infy on gold. Their OP nature is the issue and nothing else.

[xXdmndmnXx]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

xXdmndmnXx wrote...

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Its amazing how many people are anti infiltrator on this board granted the recent threads calling for nerfs. I am going to bump this everyday so BW gets the message.

The reload glitch works with all classes. Not just the Infiltrator, on the other classes it's referred to as reload-cancel.

Even though i do play as an Infil at times, i do agree that the class might need some rebalancing.

However i've been in several games where non-infil classes top the scorebaords, it all depends on the person playing that class and their understanding of it's perks and weaknesses.

On a side note, seems you've been repeatedly outscored by Infiltrators haven't you?

I have posted countless screenshots where I top the leaderboards with an without using an infy on gold. Their OP nature is the issue and nothing else.

My point exactly. <_<

To quote myself  "However i've been in several games where non-infil classes top the
scorebaords, it all depends on the person playing that class and their
understanding of it's perks and weaknesses."

Anyways, not taking this any further, and yes, the Infiltrator could do with some,umm, re-'Calibrations'. *Garrus*

Modifié par xXdmndmnXx, 14 juin 2012 - 05:31 .

[ABjerre]

xXdmndmnXx wrote...
My point exactly. <_<

To quote myself  "However i've been in several games where non-infil classes top the
scorebaords, it all depends on the person playing that class and their
understanding of it's perks and weaknesses."

Anyways, not taking this any further, and yes, the Infiltrator could do with some,umm, re-'Calibrations'. *Garrus*

At this point i am pretty sure the OP is merely flame bait'in. He ignores every post that counters his arguement, and will apparently continue to try and keep the thread alive so more people will be "mad".

[Ikilledkillab]

ABjerre wrote...

xXdmndmnXx wrote...
My point exactly. <_<

To quote myself  "However i've been in several games where non-infil classes top the
scorebaords, it all depends on the person playing that class and their
understanding of it's perks and weaknesses."

Anyways, not taking this any further, and yes, the Infiltrator could do with some,umm, re-'Calibrations'. *Garrus*

At this point i am pretty sure the OP is merely flame bait'in. He ignores every post that counters his arguement, and will apparently continue to try and keep the thread alive so more people will be "mad".

I reiterate:

The only responses I received in here were biased nonsense. Take, my
first point for example, about the reload glitch. Every single
pro-infiltrator in here was SO QUICK to point out how it works with
every class, as if I didnt know that. Maybe they thought they were
"winning" the discussion by positing that tautological nonsense? They
are missing the forest for the trees here.

You can reload glitch
with an avenger but who cares on gold? Hell, you can reload glitch with
90% of the weapons and 90% of the classes and it doesn't matter. The
only two classes the power is really OP on are the soldier with ARUSH
(e.g. multiple AR claymore shots) or infiltrators with the cloak
bonus.Other than that thre reload exploit is not OP.

When you get
an insane cloak bonus, have no change in cooldown speed regadless of
the weight/power of your weapon and have a VERY HIGH DPS weapon with low
clip sized the reload exploit becomes a problem.

Yes you can
reload exploit on all classes but on gold even a carnifex X doesn't make
you OP. Its when you combine it with infiltrators. Reload cancelling
with a BW when combined with all the other cloak exploits/bonuses is the
problem.

But like I said, 90% of infiltrators, including most of those on this forum, still belong in silver.

[Jim Cognito]

After some extensive use on the claymore and a couple of other weapons I found that frequent reload cancelling usually leads to a buggy cloak; it randomly shuts off, or persits the cloak affect without the damage bonus (this leads to 2 long power recharges without a bonus). Reload cancelling works with every class, infiltrators have it easier is all. And OP complaining because he gets topped on the leaderboard sounds like some butt hurt to me. I play all classes and races, mainly engineer and infiltrator for gold and I can say I'm ok with how it is.

[Kuato Livezz]

-Event-Horizon- wrote...

I appreciate the effort made on your thread OP, though somehow i doubt we will ever see TC nerfed, People on these forums and Bioware are just too arrogant to contemplate or even participate in some sought of civilized discussion on the matter. Of course it doesn't help our cause for a nerf when you have 75% of the community playing as infiltrators most of the time (and thus are against it). I got kicked 3 times last night for not playing as a infiltrator class :S I'm N7 1050 dam it.

75%  Really?  Not being smart or crass, but where did you get this info?  

[Kuato Livezz]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

But like I said, 90% of infiltrators, including most of those on this forum, still belong in silver.

This sounds like biased non sense to me.

[Ikilledkillab]

Kuato Livezz wrote...

-Event-Horizon- wrote...

I appreciate the effort made on your thread OP, though somehow i doubt we will ever see TC nerfed, People on these forums and Bioware are just too arrogant to contemplate or even participate in some sought of civilized discussion on the matter. Of course it doesn't help our cause for a nerf when you have 75% of the community playing as infiltrators most of the time (and thus are against it). I got kicked 3 times last night for not playing as a infiltrator class :S I'm N7 1050 dam it.

75%  Really?  Not being smart or crass, but where did you get this info?  

A bit of an exaggeration but Its obvious to people who play gold in pub matches that infiltrators are BY FAR the most common class. Its hard to find a lobby without two of them now (and thats out of the three other players).

[Ikilledkillab]

Kuato Livezz wrote...

Ikilledkillab wrote...

But like I said, 90% of infiltrators, including most of those on this forum, still belong in silver.

This sounds like biased non sense to me.

Based upon playing with them and to be honest, even the so called greats on this forum are hit or miss on gold. I found a few really good gold players and lots of people who should still be playing silver despite claiming to be "gold ready".

[Ikilledkillab]

Jim Cognito wrote...

After some extensive use on the claymore and a couple of other weapons I found that frequent reload cancelling usually leads to a buggy cloak; it randomly shuts off, or persits the cloak affect without the damage bonus (this leads to 2 long power recharges without a bonus). Reload cancelling works with every class, infiltrators have it easier is all. And OP complaining because he gets topped on the leaderboard sounds like some butt hurt to me. I play all classes and races, mainly engineer and infiltrator for gold and I can say I'm ok with how it is.

\\

This was answered 10 times in here already. Its why I don't bother responding to the rest of the nonsense. The FACT is very clear that the infy class is OP and needs a nerf. I delineated the reasons why in the OP. I'm just glad so many people on the forum are starting their own threads now.

Just goes to show that I am not the only one that think most of you use OP classes because you suck at this game. The sad part is I still kick infiltrators sometimes because even though the class is OP they can't use it right. Most of you must not play COD/BF and really are just terrible snipers to begin with.

[Beerfish]

AsheraII wrote...




Infiltrators overpowered? Bring a pair of actually capable Biotics into the game, and there's simply
nothing left to do for the infiltrator except some stealthed nodehacking. Each of the two will end up with a score far beyond the infiltrators'. Yes, they have to work together to accomplish that, but guess what? This IS a co-op game!

A "couple" of Biotics?  The point he is making is that the TC is over powered.  I tend to agree with him.  I don't care if they nerf it or not as the scoreboard is not a big deal to me and many people would be upset about it but the gist of his post is 100% correct.  Massage the classes more than the weapons.

[Ikilledkillab]

AsheraII wrote...

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Fact: Tactical cloak is broken:

Evidence 1: Reload glitch. You don't have to reload the weapon, you start a reload and cloak and it cancels the reload but your weapon is reloaded.

Evidence 2: No matter how heavy your weapons are, if you cloak, fire a power (e.g. proxy mine) then shoot at an enemy your cooldown speed is always three seconds.

Evidence 3: Even though the sixth option of tactical cloak allows you to fire a power and remain cloaked the cloak damage bonus applies even if you fire a proxy mine and then a couple of shots. Instead of breaking your cloak and losing the cloak bonus. your proxy mine and the few rounds you put out get the damage buff.

Evidence 4: The Geth Infiltrator gets a 80% cloak damage donus for sniper rifles, a 25% hunter mode bonus and a 22.5 Netowrke Ai bonus, that means your weapon does  227.5% damage. That is a huge bonus. Even the salarian infiltrator maxes out at over 200%.

Evidence 5: In most normal settings, infiltrators top the leaderboard. This is due to the class being overpowered and broken. That is also why it is so heavily played.

Pleae fix the reload exploit/glitch, please fix the cloak allowing users to get damage bonuses on a power and weapons and please remove the extra 40% sniping bonus in tree 6. The 40% damage buff in tree 4 should be moved to tree 6.  A 40% damage buff, the ability to cloak and revive teammates, hide from enemies and perform objectives is more than enough for that power.

Please nerf the tactical cloak bioware. We need better balance in multiplayer and that would be the best way to start.

Infiltrators overpowered? Bring a pair of actually capable Biotics into the game, and there's simply
nothing left to do for the infiltrator except some stealthed nodehacking. Each of the two will end up with a score far beyond the infiltrators'. Yes, they have to work together to accomplish that, but guess what? This IS a co-op game!

What you write is true but I have to stress the end: they have to work together. In pub matches that is easier imagined and 90% of the players in PUB matches have no mics so teamwork is already pretty silly. But yes, with friends coordinating classes and using mics makes the game easier. But that is really with any setup at all but the biotics are very strong if used in tandem. But biotics are squishy and have to leave cover and they don't have great range, a lot and enemies often enough dodge a biotic launched at them. You are essentially stuck using a carnfiex only for a 200% CD or you're doing it wrong.

Infys have the same power without working together and I don't care if there are two very good biotics on your team, if you aren't at least matching their score with a BW as an infy you are doing it wrong.

[neteng101]

Beerfish wrote...

Massage the classes more than the weapons.

Two approaches to this - you can choose to make the less relevant classes more fun and playable eg. the QFE, or you can choose to make the fun and playable classes less fun and relevant, ie. nerfing infiltrators.

I'd personally choose doing the former as its far more constructive.  The latter is just plain destructive and sucks the fun/goodness away from the game.  Its a totally backwards approach that seeks a lose-lose as the final outcome.  Too bad BW puts up with the nerf trollers around here, if I had a ban bat, they'd long to banished to oblivion.

[Tankcommander]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

Came here looking for proof, all I found was another **** QQ topic by Ikilledlab.

Yup. I've been outscoring everyone with my Phoenix Adept since Rebellion. Just depends on the skill of the player, as I've been seeing Infiltrators using the Krysae and still not doing very well.

However, people who are very tactical and are good shots typically play infiltrator, so I think there is a lot of skilled people who have chosen the infiltrator class and stuck with it. Hence why you see a lot of good infiltrators.