521 réponses à ce sujet

[Ikilledkillab]

ShaneZero wrote...

I think I actually lost a percentage of my IQ just for opening this thread..
Wana talk op Vorcha with maxed out blood lust just standing and waving at a Pyro
It was a fun day when I noticed I could regen heath faster then They could hurt me

Another vorcha comment. The class came out two days ago, bro.

[Immortal Strife]

People complain because when they go into lobbies they always see infiltrators, and then they get outscored by those infiltrators.

Breaking the infiltrator class, in particular the damage output limits the infiltrator to a medic and objective capper.

Infiltrators' powers are weak on the whole with the exception of Tac cloak. The human infiltrator is the class character that would suffer the most with a Tac cloak nerf as both cryo and sticky grenades are low or zero damage abilities. The Salarian would likely feel the least pinch because Proximity mine and Energy drain are good powers. The other three would suffer too as all of them need weapon burst damage to be effective. Burst damage is the design for infiltrators, they are meant to cloak then hit an enemy hard and escape.

If Bioware nerfed the Infiltrators you can expect this site to be filled with threads complaining. We would also see a drop in the popularity of multiplayer as a whole, why, because people like to snipe in shooting games. And lastly a broken infiltrator class may lead to Krysae carrying Asari Adepts everywhere; naturally the AA would become the top tier player, the same snipers that lost their character to nerfing would likely relocate to the next tier character.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 04 juin 2012 - 12:27 .

[ShaneZero]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

ShaneZero wrote...

I think I actually lost a percentage of my IQ just for opening this thread..
Wana talk op Vorcha with maxed out blood lust just standing and waving at a Pyro
It was a fun day when I noticed I could regen heath faster then They could hurt me

Another vorcha comment. The class came out two days ago, bro.

Love the Vorcha 
They only want to Murder 
.. Just dont get to close

[TheAdventurer29]

Immortal Strife wrote...

People complain because when they go into lobbies they always see infiltrators and they always get outscored by infiltrators.

Breaking the infiltrator class, in particular the damage output limits the infiltrator to a medic and objective capper.

Infiltrators' powers are weak on the whole with the exception of Tac cloak. The human infiltrator is the class character that would suffer the most with a Tac cloak nerf as both cryo and sticky grenades are low or zero damage abilities. The Salarian would likely feel the least pinch because Proximity mine and Energy drain are good powers. The other three would suffer too as all of them need weapon burst damage to be effective. Burst damage is the design for infiltrators, they are meant to cloak then hit an enemy hard and escape.

If Bioware nerfed the Infiltrators you can expect this site to be filled with threads complaining. We would also see a drop in the popularity of multiplayer as a whole, why, because people like to snipe in shooting games. And lastly a broken infiltrator class may lead to Krysae carrying Asari Adepts everywhere; naturally the AA would become the top tier player, the same snipers that lost their character to nerfing would likely relocate to the next tier character.

I approve this comment. Amen!!

[Ikilledkillab]

Soldiers are rarely ever played on gold, that stat is trash. All new players also instantly pick soldier because it seems the simplest way to kill them on gold but they make up 10-20% of gold lobbies I'd estimate. One in every 3-4 lobbies.

[ToaOrka]

There is nothing good about who you are or what you do.

EDIT: I should probably explain myself. Just because you get continually outscored by infiltrators doesn't mean they are "broken". There are so many other things in this game that need to be worked on, namely glitches and bugs that aren't intentional, and you're calling Bioware to nerf a class that functions exactly as it was designed to? Without weapon damage bonuses, most infiltrators are infinitely worse and would be stuck as second-rate medics, and would be broken in the regard that instead of "consistently " topping scoreboards, it would be impossible to place 3rd with a remotely compotent team.

Modifié par ToaOrka, 04 juin 2012 - 12:35 .

[billy the squid]

Have you ever played with a team of 4 infiltrators? It's complete trash. Everyone dumps aggro on everyone else and we all run around like maniacs as tac cloak doesn't work properly and we try to get the 40% damage bonus without getting killed as our shields don't recharge when cloaked. OMG the class is broken I demand buffs (sarcasam.)

Put a couple of infiltrators, or even 1 in with a Batarian/ Turian soldier or sentinel, Engineer and Asari Adept or Justicar and you can steam roll almost anything on Gold. If the infiltrator class was so OP and broken then, why is that all infiltrator matches generally perform poorly in comparison to mixed class matches?

Modifié par billy the squid, 04 juin 2012 - 12:41 .

[TheAdventurer29]

ToaOrka wrote...

There is nothing good about who you are or what you do.

EDIT: I should probably explain myself. Just because you get continually outscored by infiltrators doesn't mean they are "broken". There are so many other things in this game that need to be worked on, namely glitches and bugs that aren't intentional, and you're calling Bioware to nerf a class that functions exactly as it was designed to? Without weapon damage bonuses, most infiltrators are infinitely worse and would be stuck as second-rate medics, and would be broken in the regard that instead of "consistently " topping scoreboards, it would be impossible to place 3rd with a remotely compotent team.

I approve this as well!!!

[Frost Spectre]

Well, propably they remove "ending delay" and make it instant decloak when weapon is fired or power is used (The last evolution "Bonus Power" would give the power usage without breaking out of cloak, which is obsolete at the moment due to the tact cloak "ending delay"). And also fix the "tact cloak recharge override" bug too.

Krysae how ever, it has charging feature, but it deals full damage regardless, propably make the damage scale on charge. And fix the "Sniper rifle hip fire debuff" which the weapon lacks.

Reegar, if it stays like traditional lightning gun, then it propably get it's weigth increased. Or they change it  to deal less damage to health and armor and give it ability to set off tech explosions, and tech burst in general.

But who knows, who knows... It's up to the devs to do what ever they do.

[InfamousResult]

Immortal Strife wrote...

People complain because when they go into lobbies they always see infiltrators, and then they get outscored by those infiltrators.

No they don't. Most complaints come from people who have actively played the Infiltrator class.

Immortal Strife wrote...

Breaking the infiltrator class, in particular the damage output limits the infiltrator to a medic and objective capper.

You say that like they suddenly wouldn't be able to shoot the gun in their hand like any other class would. It's not like they'd need 200% Cooldown to use their Cloak effectively, or that they'd be relying solely on their powers suddenly.

You ALSO say that like Medics and Objective Cappers are a bad thing. Most players used to consider Infiltrators exactly that when the game first came out, and were very happy to welcome Infiltrators on their teams, before they all realized how exploitable the Infiltrator's abilities were. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having an ability that is spec'd almost entirely for support.

Immortal Strife wrote...

Infiltrators' powers are weak on the whole with the exception of Tac cloak. The human infiltrator is the class character that would suffer the most with a Tac cloak nerf as both cryo and sticky grenades are low or zero damage abilities. The Salarian would likely feel the least pinch because Proximity mine and Energy drain are good powers. The other three would suffer too as all of them need weapon burst damage to be effective. Burst damage is the design for infiltrators, they are meant to cloak then hit an enemy hard and escape.

Then we buff the weaker abilities. People have been asking for those abilities to get buffs for a long time, and I've agreed with them.

The problem also stems that- if Infiltrators ARE meant to cloak, hit the enemy hard, then escape- that's not how they're being used. They're just cloaking, shooting, hiding for 3 seconds, cloaking, shooting, hiding for 3 seconds- being abused for pure DPS, and never actually Infiltrating or using their cloak Tactically, at all.

Immortal Strife wrote...

If Bioware nerfed the Infiltrators you can expect this site to be filled with threads complaining. We would also see a drop in the popularity of multiplayer as a whole,

We probably would see complaints, yes. We see complaints now, too. I'd rather support the complaints that are backed by sense and logic, than the complaints that are backed by "but I can't spam DPS any more I have to actually use TACTICAL cloak now this is butts".

I also disagree; multiplayer would not drop as a whole. Or rather, if there is a drop, it will be negligible.

Immortal Strife wrote...

why, because people like to snipe in shooting games. And lastly a broken infiltrator class may lead to Krysae carrying Asari Adepts everywhere; naturally the AA would become the top tier player, the same snipers that lost their character to nerfing would likely relocate to the next tier character.

As long as that next tier isn't as ridiculously overpowered as the Infiltrator has been, then good.

[Uncle Graves]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

You are cheating when you use those glitches/exploits. You are not playing the game fairly and it throws off the balance of it.

Translation: "I wanna' be first on the scoreboard, you can't be first on the scoreboard, I'm the best player I should be first on the scoreboard. First on the scoreboard first on the scoreboard first on the scoreboard!!!"


Enough with the fu**ing scoreboard already.

[Torguemada]

Ikilledkillab wrote...
Evidence 5: In most normal settings, infiltrators top the leaderboard. This is due to the class being overpowered and broken. That is also why it is so heavily played.

LOL, maybe you should just learn to play the other classes.
Infiltrators don't stop the scoreboard unless rest of the team are much worse players like you.

[Pugz82]

don't **** with my infiltrator

[We Tigers]

InfamousResult wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

People complain because when they go into lobbies they always see infiltrators, and then they get outscored by those infiltrators.

No they don't. Most complaints come from people who have actively played the Infiltrator class.

Immortal Strife wrote...

Breaking the infiltrator class, in particular the damage output limits the infiltrator to a medic and objective capper.

You say that like they suddenly wouldn't be able to shoot the gun in their hand like any other class would. It's not like they'd need 200% Cooldown to use their Cloak effectively, or that they'd be relying solely on their powers suddenly.

You ALSO say that like Medics and Objective Cappers are a bad thing. Most players used to consider Infiltrators exactly that when the game first came out, and were very happy to welcome Infiltrators on their teams, before they all realized how exploitable the Infiltrator's abilities were. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having an ability that is spec'd almost entirely for support.

"Most players" being ones who never played Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, or read the tooltips for cloak? The infiltrator has been a high burst-damage class since before it could even turn invisible.

[ll Ak Attack ll]

HA Infiltrator with a 200% cooldown, now THAT was a funny joke right there.

[dr octagon 3000]

Broken? Bit of an exaggeration. Broken is when you can't finish a match because of the last enemy that fell through the map and can't be damaged. You think Cloak is unfairly balanced and overpowered; hardly "broken"

Modifié par dr octagon 3000, 04 juin 2012 - 01:10 .

[John123453242]

This guy is still crying about infiltrators? What a whiney little troll.

You complain that they are noobs and just terrible. How can you come to that conclusion as you think they are OP? Kind of contradictory. Are infiltrators doing great or horrible? You can't have it both ways... Not a very smart troll.

[John123453242]

Also, I top the scoreboard with my AA a LOT. Don't cry just because you are bad.

[lordshenlong]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Soldiers are rarely ever played on gold, that stat is trash. All new players also instantly pick soldier because it seems the simplest way to kill them on gold but they make up 10-20% of gold lobbies I'd estimate. One in every 3-4 lobbies.

there's always a soldier in my gold lobbies, and most of the time they outscore the rest

[lpconfig]

Soldiers are excellent. I have done a gold run in 13:30 using just soldiers.

[MacGarrus]

Okay fine, Infiltrators aren't overpowered.

Let's buff EVERYTHING else then. Here you go Drell and Justicar, Reave can now be detonated by ANOTHER Reave! Have fun with that! Yo Asari Adept, wanna have Reave too? Sure here ya go! Infact, screw it, YOU CAN ALL HAVE IT! AND STASIS TOO! Arent I the best at balance?

Hey Soldiers, have every gun at Level 11, be able to carry a weapon from every category and be able to use unlimited rockets!

Yo Engineers, we felt bad about you being left out so here's a power that summons an Atlas for you to drive that has over 12 million shields and health and regenerates both at approximately 11999999 points per second.

Hey hey Vanguards, how bout some more screen shaky goodness? Now your Novas, heavy melees and grenades cause seismic activity off the scale whenever you use them, causing the ground to swallow up every enemy on the map at once! Warning, may cause earache due to mad sniper.

Sentineeeeeeeeeeels! Here's ME2's Tech Armor, have fun with that.

...or...

Make cloak work with cooldowns like every other power.

Simples.

[Mendelevosa]

Man. Ikilledkillab really hates infiltrators huh? Anyways, all classes are able to do the reload cancel action, not just the infiltrator.

[robarcool]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

I see bans being handed out over this thread.

I want OP to be perma banned, but that is just a childish dream not going to be fulfilled.

[DiebytheSword]

We need other classes fixed waaaaaaay before the infiltrator needs rebalancing. Krogan Vanguard and both Cerberus characters are horribly broken.

Infiltrators are not broken anyway, imo. They are what they are, long range assasins and ones who infiltrate. When you get into a close combat scenario, that big honking sniper rifle doesn't help much.

Shotgun infiltrators don't get all the bonuses of the cloak, nor do any of the other backup weapons except those speced for melee.

Evidence 4 is easily put aside because it compounds percentages wrong. The percentages are all taken from the base damage, not a constant aggrigation of percents on already buffed numbers.

You also fail to explain why the reload cancel is an infiltrator problem, it can be done by any class with most powers.

[AdmLancel]

So now we have evidence that a team of 4 soldiers is better than a team of 4 infiltrators.  This is pretty much as I expected.  I've seen teams of 4 infiltrators and they rarely do well because many don't build to tank.  GIs do love their melt-everything melee.  Once you decloak everything pretty much focuses you.  With the right coordination maybe it would work better.

Infiltrators are pretty much supposed to be DPS with some support functions (largely getting revives).  They have no inate tanking abilities, only a de-aggro ability, which does not actually tank because the enemy simply switches targets for the most part.  With the right team, an infiltrator, like any DPS, would naturally get the highest score.  This is quite common across many games.  Mobas are a good example of this, where a tank can provide critical team support to allow the DPS time to kill everything.  Sometimes the tank dies constantly, but for each death three enemies go down.  This results in the tank having absolutely terrible personal score, while the DPS looks like he went to town.  In those games, you'd be silly not to acknowledge good tanking.  In ME3, it's much the same, although we don't usually think of it that way because we think of it first as a shooter, where you don't usually see such terms applied.

Another reason why you see Infiltrators top is actually the way the scoring system works.  While I'm not entirely positive, it feels like OVERKILL is also worth points, as killing something with a cloaked Widow round with no health seems to give me as many points as killing something on full health the same way (even if someone else reduced the enemy to very low health).  Thanks to the damage bonuses, Infiltrators can generally manage the most overkill.  That is somewhat of a hypothesis though based on my observation.

The evidence as stated isn't strictly what I'd call evidence of being OP,  most of that is simply class mechanics, without an explanation of WHY it's OP for the Infiltrator to be able to do this.  A nuke launcher might be OP, but if everyone has a nuke launcher then it would be balanced.  Only Evidence 5 is what I'd call real evidence.

Evidence 1 meanwhile is a bit silly because Bioware has already said it's a legitimate gameplay mechanic, and it's a mechanic that works for any class, not only infiltrator.  It doesn't do anything for me because I have a Widow, and I don't care to fire it out of cloak, and coincidentally the reload time is equal to the recharge time on cloak.  I imagine it's stupidly useful for a Black Widow user though as they can fire off their 3 shots, reload, then use cloak to reload cancel and fire three more shots with damage bonus.

As for the rest, my analysis of your proposal suggests this would nerf them to uselessness, as your nerfing multiple DPS capabilities down to the ground to the point where they are little better than an Asari Sniper, who basically trades the ability to be the cloaked medic and some better anti-armor for easy headshots on many targets and the ability to do more damage on a per shot basis than the Infiltrator.  Ultimately I'd be forced to conclude that with your proposed changes, the Asari Adept/Vanguard Sniper would make a better sniper, even though a lot of people consider that build weak.

Now if you want to be realistic, then play a Soldier with Adrenaline Rush specced for damage and duration, and watch it make a laughing stock of your nerfed Infiltrator.  Three caps with a Black Widow, Adrenaline Rush for instant reload, fire another three, reload cancel, and fire another three with the Adrenaline Rush bonus still active.

I digress a bit, but effectively what you're doing is taking away damage from the rifle per shot and removing the ability to throw a power out at the same time, which is a lot of DPS being taken out of the picture.  I will grant that the power use thing does seem a little silly as there's basically no reason not to use a power right out of cloak (making QI basically 1, 3, shoot endlessly).  But at the very most I'd say consider stacking or going with the greater cooldown between the power and cloak when using it from out of cloak, and see how it goes from there, as it does feel a bit silly to have a reduced cooldown simply by using the power from cloak.  That way it's either shoot with a reasonable cooldown OR use a power, in theory.  Bonus power could perhaps restore the old way of doing things by overriding the bonus power's cooldown with cloak's cooldown once the infiltrator actually decloaks.

The proposed changes, if all were implemented, I think would really just turn the Infiltrator into the errand boy class.  No real combat ability other than run and revive teammates, or run and do the objectives, or hide from enemies and do nothing.  Also keep in mind that the infiltrator is decloaked automatically upon completing the revive of a teammate, which doesn't make it an auto-win for always reviving teammates.  The Infiltrator has an easier time doing it, but the Infiltrator CAN still end up simply joining the fallen in Need A Medic land.

Stupid essay.  TOO LONG; DID NOT READ: Proposed changes are excessive, turns infiltrator into an errand boy with gimped combat abilities over every other class.  At most consider taking the greater cooldown (or stack the cooldowns) when using a power out of cloak and see where that gets us.  Also your evidence isn't evidence, because only #5 explains why this is evidence of OPness.

Modifié par AdmLancel, 04 juin 2012 - 05:31 .