521 réponses à ce sujet

[robarcool]

AdmLancel wrote...

So now we have evidence that a team of 4 soldiers is better than a team of 4 infiltrators.  This is pretty much as I expected.  I've seen teams of 4 infiltrators and they rarely do well because many don't build to tank.  GIs do love their melt-everything melee.  Once you decloak everything pretty much focuses you.  With the right coordination maybe it would work better.

Infiltrators are pretty much supposed to be DPS with some support functions (largely getting revives).  They have no inate tanking abilities, only a de-aggro ability, which does not actually tank because the enemy simply switches targets for the most part.  With the right team, an infiltrator, like any DPS, would naturally get the highest score.  This is quite common across many games.  Mobas are a good example of this, where a tank can provide critical team support to allow the DPS time to kill everything.  Sometimes the tank dies constantly, but for each death three enemies go down.  This results in the tank having absolutely terrible personal score, while the DPS looks like he went to town.  In those games, you'd be silly not to acknowledge good tanking.  In ME3, it's much the same, although we don't usually think of it that way because we think of it first as a shooter, where you don't usually see such terms applied.

Another reason why you see Infiltrators top is actually the way the scoring system works.  While I'm not entirely positive, it feels like OVERKILL is also worth points, as killing something with a cloaked Widow round with no health seems to give me as many points as killing something on full health the same way (even if someone else reduced the enemy to very low health).  Thanks to the damage bonuses, Infiltrators can generally manage the most overkill.  That is somewhat of a hypothesis though based on my observation.

The evidence as stated isn't strictly what I'd call evidence of being OP,  most of that is simply class mechanics, without an explanation of WHY it's OP for the Infiltrator to be able to do this.  A nuke launcher might be OP, but if everyone has a nuke launcher then it would be balanced.  Only Evidence 5 is what I'd call real evidence.

Evidence 1 meanwhile is a bit silly because Bioware has already said it's a legitimate gameplay mechanic, and it's a mechanic that works for any class, not only infiltrator.  It doesn't do anything for me because I have a Widow, and I don't care to fire it out of cloak, and coincidentally the reload time is equal to the recharge time on cloak.  I imagine it's stupidly useful for a Black Widow user though as they can fire off their 3 shots, reload, then use cloak to reload cancel and fire three more shots with damage bonus.

As for the rest, my analysis of your proposal suggests this would nerf them to uselessness, as your nerfing multiple DPS capabilities down to the ground to the point where they are little better than an Asari Sniper, who basically trades the ability to be the cloaked medic and some better anti-armor for easy headshots on many targets and the ability to do more damage on a per shot basis than the Infiltrator.  Ultimately I'd be forced to conclude that with your proposed changes, the Asari Adept/Vanguard Sniper would make a better sniper, even though a lot of people consider that build weak.

Now if you want to be realistic, then play a Soldier with Adrenaline Rush specced for damage and duration, and watch it make a laughing stock of your nerfed Infiltrator.  Three caps with a Black Widow, Adrenaline Rush for instant reload, fire another three, reload cancel, and fire another three with the Adrenaline Rush bonus still active.

I digress a bit, but effectively what you're doing is taking away damage from the rifle per shot and removing the ability to throw a power out at the same time, which is a lot of DPS being taken out of the picture.  I will grant that the power use thing does seem a little silly as there's basically no reason not to use a power right out of cloak (making QI basically 1, 3, shoot endlessly).  But at the very most I'd say consider stacking or going with the greater cooldown between the power and cloak when using it from out of cloak, and see how it goes from there, as it does feel a bit silly to have a reduced cooldown simply by using the power from cloak.  That way it's either shoot with a reasonable cooldown OR use a power, in theory.  Bonus power could perhaps restore the old way of doing things by overriding the bonus power's cooldown with cloak's cooldown once the infiltrator actually decloaks.

The proposed changes, if all were implemented, I think would really just turn the Infiltrator into the errand boy class.  No real combat ability other than run and revive teammates, or run and do the objectives, or hide from enemies and do nothing.  Also keep in mind that the infiltrator is decloaked automatically upon completing the revive of a teammate, which doesn't make it an auto-win for always reviving teammates.  The Infiltrator has an easier time doing it, but the Infiltrator CAN still end up simply joining the fallen in Need A Medic land.

Stupid essay.  TOO LONG; DID NOT READ: Proposed changes are excessive, turns infiltrator into an errand boy with gimped combat abilities over every other class.  At most consider taking the greater cooldown (or stack the cooldowns) when using a power out of cloak and see where that gets us.  Also your evidence isn't evidence, because only #5 explains why this is evidence of OPness.

You debunked OPs troll prost and I wish that Bioware doesn't heed to cloak nerfs and change it in any way.

[Ikilledkillab]

Mendelevosa wrote...

Man. Ikilledkillab really hates infiltrators huh? Anyways, all classes are able to do the reload cancel action, not just the infiltrator.

Not the class itself, just the people using it. Most of you still belong on silver. You just found an OP class with exploits and glitches and use it to play gold. You might as well farm gets or do the money hack. All you exploiters are just the same.

[robarcool]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...

Man. Ikilledkillab really hates infiltrators huh? Anyways, all classes are able to do the reload cancel action, not just the infiltrator.

Not the class itself, just the people using it. Most of you still belong on silver. You just found an OP class with exploits and glitches and use it to play gold. You might as well farm gets or do the money hack. All you exploiters are just the same.

Very arrogant. I play infiltrator, but I do fine with adepts and soldiers as well. I can handle gold and while I can't carry a team unless playing infiltrator, I can definitely be a major contributor.

Modifié par robarcool, 04 juin 2012 - 05:37 .

[Firebald]

We should break Cloak so Infiltraitors become useless.

Cloaked does not mean enemies don't shoot you.

[robarcool]

Firebald wrote...

We should break Cloak so Infiltraitors become useless.

Cloaked does not mean enemies don't shoot you.

No. That won't be sufficient. Infiltrators shouldn't even spawn alive. They should spawn dead and stay dead for the whole match. They could use melee to kill things, you know. Only staying dead would make them a not overpowered class.

Modifié par robarcool, 04 juin 2012 - 08:53 .

[usctrojanbulldog]

robarcool wrote...

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...

Man. Ikilledkillab really hates infiltrators huh? Anyways, all classes are able to do the reload cancel action, not just the infiltrator.

Not the class itself, just the people using it. Most of you still belong on silver. You just found an OP class with exploits and glitches and use it to play gold. You might as well farm gets or do the money hack. All you exploiters are just the same.

Very arrogant. I play infiltrator, but I do fine with adepts and soldiers as well. I can handle gold and while I can't carry a team unless playing infiltrator, I can definitely be a major contributor.

Dude, if you look up IKILLEDKILLAB's youtube posts you'll see he often plays a sniper in MW3.  So now I'm confused about his Infiltrator hate.  Unless he can't replicate what he's complaining about.

[robarcool]

usctrojanbulldog wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...

Man. Ikilledkillab really hates infiltrators huh? Anyways, all classes are able to do the reload cancel action, not just the infiltrator.

Not the class itself, just the people using it. Most of you still belong on silver. You just found an OP class with exploits and glitches and use it to play gold. You might as well farm gets or do the money hack. All you exploiters are just the same.

Very arrogant. I play infiltrator, but I do fine with adepts and soldiers as well. I can handle gold and while I can't carry a team unless playing infiltrator, I can definitely be a major contributor.

Dude, if you look up IKILLEDKILLAB's youtube posts you'll see he often plays a sniper in MW3.  So now I'm confused about his Infiltrator hate.  Unless he can't replicate what he's complaining about.

I don't care what OP plays in MW3. He is asking for something in ME3 MP which is downright idiotic and that's what I oppose, apart from the arrogant post he made.

Modifié par robarcool, 04 juin 2012 - 08:55 .

[greghorvath]

I think I am starting to get the hang of reporting threads for spam...

[jaydee114]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Most of you still belong on silver. You just found an OP class with exploits and glitches and use it to play gold. You might as well farm gets or do the money hack. All you exploiters are just the same.

so you just admitted that YOU belong in silver as well, since you know...

1) YOU use the infiltrator class even after all your worthless troll threads
2) YOU are a FBWG farmer (as shown by your humble and classy bragging in multiple threads now)
3) YOU did the money glitch (which YOU admitted to doing so)

hypocrisy at its finest

you don't even reply to those that give you reasonable responses. you just ignore them, because you have no idea how to respond with proper rebuttal. you just regurgitate the same baseless posts over and over and over and over again. don't you ever get tired of yourself?

also.. please stop trying to friend me on PSN... i've told you before and i'll say it again.. i don't want to have someone like you as a team member. you have been nothing but negative and condescending to people. i already know you won't bring anything to the table, and i'd rather take a newbie into gold who at least has a positive outlook and doesn't take this game too seriously.

Modifié par jaydee114, 04 juin 2012 - 09:58 .

[J-Chad52]

ok really?? you're complaining about a team multiplayer where Infiltrators are the top of the points in games... you realize that all the points are shared by everyone in the end anyway right? so what does it matter. stop asking for nerfs on everything and just be glad that you have an infiltrator on your team to get objectives done and help with tough enemies. without tactical cloak we may as well just all play human soldiers

[robarcool]

jaydee114 wrote...

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Most of you still belong on silver. You just found an OP class with exploits and glitches and use it to play gold. You might as well farm gets or do the money hack. All you exploiters are just the same.

so you just admitted that YOU belong in silver as well, since you know...

1) YOU use the infiltrator class even after all your worthless troll threads
2) YOU are a FBWG farmer (as shown by your humble and classy bragging in multiple threads now)
3) YOU did the money glitch (which YOU admitted to doing so)

hypocrisy at its finest

also.. please stop trying to friend me on PSN... i've told you before and i'll say it again.. i don't want to have someone like you as a team member. you have been nothing but negative and condescending to people. i already know you won't bring anything to the table, and i'd rather take a newbie into gold who at least has a positive outlook and doesn't take this game too seriously.

Owned!

[bondiboy]

jaydee114 wrote...

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Most of you still belong on silver. You just found an OP class with exploits and glitches and use it to play gold. You might as well farm gets or do the money hack. All you exploiters are just the same.

so you just admitted that YOU belong in silver as well, since you know...

1) YOU use the infiltrator class even after all your worthless troll threads
2) YOU are a FBWG farmer (as shown by your humble and classy bragging in multiple threads now)
3) YOU did the money glitch (which YOU admitted to doing so)

hypocrisy at its finest

you don't even reply to those that give you reasonable responses. you just ignore them, because you have no idea how to respond with proper rebuttal. you just regurgitate the same baseless posts over and over and over and over again. don't you ever get tired of yourself?

also.. please stop trying to friend me on PSN... i've told you before and i'll say it again.. i don't want to have someone like you as a team member. you have been nothing but negative and condescending to people. i already know you won't bring anything to the table, and i'd rather take a newbie into gold who at least has a positive outlook and doesn't take this game too seriously.

1.


Internet Troll Personality Disorder


5 up, 2 down







Internet Troll Personality Disorder (ITPD) is
characterized by a persistent pattern of obstructing of on-topic
discussion in online forums and comment threads. . Often times they disingenuously express
strong emotions with an impressionistic style and never hesitate to contribute absurd,
non-sequitur remarks at any perceived opportunity.

The etiology
of ITPD is still being researched, but scholars agree that afflicted
individuals usually enjoy some type of unfulfilling (and unsupervised)
employment situation where they have access to computers with internet
connections.

You need to get some professional help Ikilledkillab - or a new job

[Sinapus]

jaydee114 wrote...
also.. please stop trying to friend me on PSN... i've told you before and i'll say it again.. i don't want to have someone like you as a team member. you have been nothing but negative and condescending to people. i already know you won't bring anything to the table, and i'd rather take a newbie into gold who at least has a positive outlook and doesn't take this game too seriously.

*horrified gasp*



Someone... not taking a game seriously?! As if they play for... *glances around fretfully* ...for FUN?!

[-Event-Horizon-]

J-Chad52 wrote...

ok really?? you're complaining about a team multiplayer where Infiltrators are the top of the points in games... you realize that all the points are shared by everyone in the end anyway right? so what does it matter. stop asking for nerfs on everything and just be glad that you have an infiltrator on your team to get objectives done and help with tough enemies. without tactical cloak we may as well just all play human soldiers

Just because its a "team game" doesn't mean balance should be thrown out the window. contrary to alot of the infiltrator trolls beliefs, we are not asking for a nerf that would ruin TC, only balance it. True story just played a gold match, all four of us were n7 800 or over (20 soldier, 19 engineer, 18 engineer, 1 infiltrator).The level 1 infiltrator outscored all of us by atleast 20 000 points now if that doesn't sound fishy i dont no what is.

[Darksaberexile]

-Event-Horizon- wrote...

Just because its a "team game" doesn't mean balance should be thrown out the window. contrary to alot of the infiltrator trolls beliefs, we are not asking for a nerf that would ruin TC, only balance it. True story just played a gold match, all four of us were n7 800 or over (20 soldier, 19 engineer, 18 engineer, 1 infiltrator).The level 1 infiltrator outscored all of us by atleast 20 000 points now if that doesn't sound fishy i dont no what is.

Um...I didn't pay a lot of attention when I promoted my infiltrator for the last event, but, don't you only have enough skill points at level 1 to have 1 point in cloak? That doesn't allow for most of the damage bonuses cloak provides (no level 4 or 6 sniper bonuses). For sake of understanding, what weapon was the infiltrator using, and did they use a rail amp/ammo powerup?

(I'm only asking because it seems odd to me for a level 1 infiltrator to do that well, since they couldn't have access to most of their damage bonuses or powers, having 1 point to invest + 1 in cloak)

[-Event-Horizon-]

Darksaberexile wrote...

-Event-Horizon- wrote...

Just because its a "team game" doesn't mean balance should be thrown out the window. contrary to alot of the infiltrator trolls beliefs, we are not asking for a nerf that would ruin TC, only balance it. True story just played a gold match, all four of us were n7 800 or over (20 soldier, 19 engineer, 18 engineer, 1 infiltrator).The level 1 infiltrator outscored all of us by atleast 20 000 points now if that doesn't sound fishy i dont no what is.

Um...I didn't pay a lot of attention when I promoted my infiltrator for the last event, but, don't you only have enough skill points at level 1 to have 1 point in cloak? That doesn't allow for most of the damage bonuses cloak provides (no level 4 or 6 sniper bonuses). For sake of understanding, what weapon was the infiltrator using, and did they use a rail amp/ammo powerup?

(I'm only asking because it seems odd to me for a level 1 infiltrator to do that well, since they couldn't have access to most of their damage bonuses or powers, having 1 point to invest + 1 in cloak)

Correct he only had 1 point in TC giving him a 50% damage bonus, he was also using the krysae, sniper amp 2 and a disruptor ammo 1. Mind you all of use were also using the krysae, and all of us had weapon and ammo powers active.  In "my opinion"  it's the spammability of TC that is the problem not the damage.

Modifié par -Event-Horizon-, 05 juin 2012 - 10:01 .

[Darksaberexile]

-Event-Horizon- wrote...

Darksaberexile wrote...

-Event-Horizon- wrote...

Just because its a "team game" doesn't mean balance should be thrown out the window. contrary to alot of the infiltrator trolls beliefs, we are not asking for a nerf that would ruin TC, only balance it. True story just played a gold match, all four of us were n7 800 or over (20 soldier, 19 engineer, 18 engineer, 1 infiltrator).The level 1 infiltrator outscored all of us by atleast 20 000 points now if that doesn't sound fishy i dont no what is.

Um...I didn't pay a lot of attention when I promoted my infiltrator for the last event, but, don't you only have enough skill points at level 1 to have 1 point in cloak? That doesn't allow for most of the damage bonuses cloak provides (no level 4 or 6 sniper bonuses). For sake of understanding, what weapon was the infiltrator using, and did they use a rail amp/ammo powerup?

(I'm only asking because it seems odd to me for a level 1 infiltrator to do that well, since they couldn't have access to most of their damage bonuses or powers, having 1 point to invest + 1 in cloak)

Correct he only had 1 point in TC giving him a 50% damage bonus, he was also using the krysae, sniper amp 2 and a disruptor ammo 1. Mind you all of use were also using the krysae, and all of us had weapon and ammo powers active.  In "my opinion"  it's the spammability of TC that is the problem not the damage.

Ok, thanks for the additional info
In this case, I would agree with you that TC is too spammable, as it is it can be used with almost every shot/clip fired by an infiltrator (based on my experience with both the black widow and the krysae).

What rate of TC use would you want to be encouraged to make it more balanced?

[spudspot]

-Event-Horizon- wrote...

Just because its a "team game" doesn't mean balance should be thrown out the window. contrary to alot of the infiltrator trolls beliefs, we are not asking for a nerf that would ruin TC, only balance it. True story just played a gold match, all four of us were n7 800 or over (20 soldier, 19 engineer, 18 engineer, 1 infiltrator).The level 1 infiltrator outscored all of us by atleast 20 000 points now if that doesn't sound fishy i dont no what is.

Well the game is very generous with points for killshots. Playing with two engineers it is not very unlikely that the Infiltrator simply gets many of them. That said, high score for an Infiltrator doesn't mean the others didn't contribute just as much or even more. Not to mention that people who can pull off headshots frequently don't really need the higher evolutions of TC to be very effective in terms of kill-speed.

That the Soldier got outscored is a bit odd though, I've seen people doing incredible things with the Human Soldier at least. 

To repeat myself: Stop deducing a classes capabilities from the score they usually get, it just doesn't make any sense.

Edit: Ok, as the Krysae ignores shield gate afaik, that sounds a bit odd.

Modifié par spudspot, 05 juin 2012 - 10:35 .

[kevchy]

Hey its you again. Was wondering when you will jump into the nerfing bandwagon.

[N7-RedFox]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Fact: Tactical cloak is broken:

Evidence 1: Reload glitch. You don't have to reload the weapon, you start a reload and cloak and it cancels the reload but your weapon is reloaded.

Evidence 2: No matter how heavy your weapons are, if you cloak, fire a power (e.g. proxy mine) then shoot at an enemy your cooldown speed is always three seconds.

Evidence 3: Even though the sixth option of tactical cloak allows you to fire a power and remain cloaked the cloak damage bonus applies even if you fire a proxy mine and then a couple of shots. Instead of breaking your cloak and losing the cloak bonus. your proxy mine and the few rounds you put out get the damage buff.

Evidence 4: The Geth Infiltrator gets a 80% cloak damage donus for sniper rifles, a 25% hunter mode bonus and a 22.5 Netowrke Ai bonus, that means your weapon does  227.5% damage. That is a huge bonus. Even the salarian infiltrator maxes out at over 200%.

Evidence 5: In most normal settings, infiltrators top the leaderboard. This is due to the class being overpowered and broken. That is also why it is so heavily played.

Pleae fix the reload exploit/glitch, please fix the cloak allowing users to get damage bonuses on a power and weapons and please remove the extra 40% sniping bonus in tree 6. The 40% damage buff in tree 4 should be moved to tree 6.  A 40% damage buff, the ability to cloak and revive teammates, hide from enemies and perform objectives is more than enough for that power.

Please nerf the tactical cloak bioware. We need better balance in multiplayer and that would be the best way to start.

Anybody calling for nerfs in a co-op game is clearly retarded. Do you want you and your allies to win or not? Do you want games that get you credits in under 20 mins or would u rather play a 30 min rock hard difficult game and lose on wave 9?

[tatski]

Funny because all the character nerfs made by bioware was not necessary... Infiltrators (exept for FQI) aren't hit with balance changes... TC is the most powerfull skill out there i think they need to BALANCED(not nerfed)... TC is a lot friendlier in ME3 compared to ME2... However I dont agree with removing the dmg bonus of TC. I Like some ideas like removal of the 1.5 second bonus damage fade period (gives the player a choice bet. power or weapon damage bonus). One TC cycle = to one chance bonus damage... and just like in ME2 reloading should break the cloak. This way TC require a little bit of concentration to play to its full potential...

edit/

1.5 sec bonus damage should only be applicable on weapons (for auto and semi auto weapons). Using a power during TC will not get you that bonus...

Modifié par tatski, 05 juin 2012 - 11:16 .

[taomang]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Byronic-Knight wrote...

You are receiving all points and credits earned throughout the match in collective equality with the rest of your squad.

Why would you want to nerf a class that could potentially lead to you earning more xp/credits otherwise?

I like to play a fair and balanced game for fun. I don't care about credits. Having every random lobby contain 2 OP infiltrators is detrimental to the overall experience of the game.

So what you're REALLY saying is.... You just want everyone else to be as bad as you?

First or all Geths are really squishy, which in some logic, it is really nice that they have such good damage bonus. The reason Salarians don't get such big damage bonus is because of the Energy Drain which increases their survivability A LOT.

You say "balance"? You should actually think about why are the characters made as they are.

You "don't care about the credits"? Well comparing to a completely relevant score board, credits are meaningless!

Modifié par taomang, 05 juin 2012 - 11:12 .

[Ikilledkillab]

@jaydee the reason I am not replying to long posts is because I am camping on the ocean right now. I'm off to hit golf balls into the ocean now. Need to practice with the sand wedge and judging by your response, you take this game way to seriously. Lighten up bro.


Ps.... I send you requests as a joke now lol

[Ikilledkillab]

kevchy wrote...

Hey its you again. Was wondering when you will jump into the nerfing bandwagon.

Dont worry, I won't create 19 threads crying about OP infiltrators. I'm not starduck.

[Stardusk]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

kevchy wrote...

Hey its you again. Was wondering when you will jump into the nerfing bandwagon.

Dont worry, I won't create 19 threads crying about OP infiltrators. I'm not starduck.

Uhuh. Thought you'd toss in a little insult there huh? I wonder if you were among the people issuing death threats to me for my commentary on the Reegar.