301 réponses à ce sujet

[WARMACHINE9]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

WARMACHINE9 wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I realize nerfers have a point. The Infiltrator is the ultimate support class. There's no reason why it should be the ultimate killing class too.

Not trying to start anything just curious how the infiltrator is a support class? Thought they were pure dps. Please explain.

Reviving is the easy for them, doing objectives is easy for them, their cloak allows them to lay down supressive fire. Stuff like that.

I see your point and can appreciate your opinion but those are small taters compared to the DPS. Infiltrators are a sniper class(my opinion and yes I know about melee/shotty infils). Also if your playing geth your argument is null and void as at least half the enemy types can see through cloak. Also Infiltrators are snipers AND saboutours according to Bioware(see the discription in any BW approved strat guide and thats what it says. Their words not mine) so they should be able to do both right? When I think support I think Eng. and TS.

[toastar]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Reviving is the easy for them, doing objectives is easy for them, their cloak allows them to lay down supressive fire. Stuff like that.

Reviving and objectives take up at best 10% of every game, even if you run around like Florence Nightingale on speed.

What are you doing the rest of the time?

Somebody remembers that Infiltrators are supposed to be a cross between soldiers and engineers?

[tfoltz]

Immortal Strife wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Adhok42 wrote...

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

I stand (sit?) corrected. And no, I didn't read it all the way through - that you gave an example of a sub 20 on silver put me off.

Also, if you're barely killing? HEADSHOT is certainly good advice.

That's why I always go for the skulls if I can help it. You nerf the bonus damage and even a Cloaked Headshot won't be able to put them down. Kind of sad for class that prides itself on being heavily sniper based.

You might want to start reading properly, but not the damage bonuses should be nerfed!!!! Can you finally understand that?
And, you can bring down trash with 2 HEADSHOT from mantis on gold, even w/o cloack!!!!
So cloack does not increase your power against minor enemies!!!
Your statement is just INCORRECT

Just out of curiously how much currency did you spend or home many credit glitch expoit did you do to get your manifest completely full?

Straight garbage, you can't snipe so you want to bring everyone down to your level.

Cheating is good stuff.

Modifié par tfoltz, 04 juin 2012 - 09:45 .

[Adhok42]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...


You might want to start reading properly, but not the damage bonuses should be nerfed!!!! Can you finally understand that?
And, you can bring down rocket trooper with 2 HEADSHOT from mantis on gold, even w/o cloack!!!!
And You will not be able to kill him with one shot even with cloack even from ****n javelin!!!
So cloack does not increase your power against minor enemies!!!
Your statement is just INCORRECT

Your credablity has been ruined by your previous circular logic. I'm still waiting on an answer of whether or not you really believe Infiltrators are OP since "They kill everything in oneshot but can't oneshot anything on gold."

We require your answer sumitted in triplicate before we take you seriously anymore.

[Aifell_Ellion]

Immortal Strife wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Adhok42 wrote...

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

I stand (sit?) corrected. And no, I didn't read it all the way through - that you gave an example of a sub 20 on silver put me off.

Also, if you're barely killing? HEADSHOT is certainly good advice.

That's why I always go for the skulls if I can help it. You nerf the bonus damage and even a Cloaked Headshot won't be able to put them down. Kind of sad for class that prides itself on being heavily sniper based.

You might want to start reading properly, but not the damage bonuses should be nerfed!!!! Can you finally understand that?
And, you can bring down trash with 2 HEADSHOT from mantis on gold, even w/o cloack!!!!
So cloack does not increase your power against minor enemies!!!
Your statement is just INCORRECT

Just out of curiously how much currency did you spend or home many credit glitch expoits did you do to get you manifest?

I just played for smth like 500 hours for now. Maybe more. It's 5 hours a day on average. Yea, that's sad.

[capn233]

Thank you guys for all contributing to this thread. I got a lot of enjoyment out of reading it.

If there is a modicum of teamwork between adepts then at least one should be able to outscore the infiltrator. Granted, most of the time I see adepts just screw around and not work together so that is limiting their scoring potential.

Switching Cloak to a purely weight based cooldown is a pretty lousy idea unless you want to seriously reexamine the weight capacity of the various classes (something I do think should actually be done, btw). As it stands, I think base minimum should perhaps get a small nerf, but only something like by 0.5s. The Sniper Rifle damage bonus at rank 6 should stay. This is indeed the class that is supposed to be the Assassin or Marksman and should indeed do the most damage with SR's. That and a lot of people that are actually playing this class well are running Claymore and may not even have Rank 6 of cloak.  Where you should look is perhaps the general purpose damage bonus of cloak which can get up to 90%.  Maybe that could do with a slight nerf.

But some of the wholesale changes people want made are pretty silly at best. I honestly can't take them seriously since I play every class (well, less Vanguard since it isn't reliable). It does come off more as whining about points.

Modifié par capn233, 04 juin 2012 - 09:48 .

[Destructo-Bot]

I posted about half a dozen more screenies of all different classes beating out infils with decent scores. At least one of em would be salarian

The best idea I have heard regarding infiltrator balance is to make only the first shot/power to break cloak receive the damage bonus.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 04 juin 2012 - 09:48 .

[Fox-snipe]

WARMACHINE9 wrote...
I see your point and can appreciate your opinion but those are small taters compared to the DPS. Infiltrators are a sniper class(my opinion and yes I know about melee/shotty infils). Also if your playing geth your argument is null and void as at least half the enemy types can see through cloak. Also Infiltrators are snipers AND saboutours according to Bioware(see the discription in any BW approved strat guide and thats what it says. Their words not mine) so they should be able to do both right? When I think support I think Eng. and TS.

Infiltrators, are a type of support class, though very much focused.  Instead of handling crowd control or weakening enemies their support is in directly keeping the team going through objectives and revives.  The other support classes are more to help against mobs & swarms.  Engineers are the only "type-cast" class that is primarily support.  The other support classes are the hybrids (Infiltrators, Sentinels).

By that line of thinking a Vanguard should also be a support class since they too are a hybrid but they are more often the front-line player.  Unfortunately too many of them die because they MUST get that kill, instead of chaining charges together to constantly weaken enemies which would put them squarely in the realm of support.  I guess it balances since an Engineer is type-cast but is very much support.  Does feel strange though to me.

[DSRoy]

1) BioWare/EA should have no problem with OP classes: just buff the enemies so that every other class is underpowered, and encourage store purchases to keep up.

2) Every class is a support class, whether its single target dps, crowd control, healing, debuffing, or objective capping, etc.  The fact that its even possible to win gold matches with all players playing the same class (and even build) is a design flaw, in a game that should (IMO) support diversity and teamwork.

3) The fix has been obvious to me for a very long time. Keep the TC skill tree as is, but decloak immediately at the very first shot or power use (unless TC:6 bonus power is taken). SIs and GIs could have their ED/prox mine, or their sniper rifle multiplier, but not both. The window for multiple shots or power use + shot(s} make the class OP compared to others.

Modifié par DSRoy, 04 juin 2012 - 09:51 .

[Aifell_Ellion]

Adhok42 wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...


You might want to start reading properly, but not the damage bonuses should be nerfed!!!! Can you finally understand that?
And, you can bring down rocket trooper with 2 HEADSHOT from mantis on gold, even w/o cloack!!!!
And You will not be able to kill him with one shot even with cloack even from ****n javelin!!!
So cloack does not increase your power against minor enemies!!!
Your statement is just INCORRECT

Your credablity has been ruined by your previous circular logic. I'm still waiting on an answer of whether or not you really believe Infiltrators are OP since "They kill everything in oneshot but can't oneshot anything on gold."

We require your answer sumitted in triplicate before we take you seriously anymore.

Do you want me to qoute myself or to teach you to read? have you read it?I can kill a rocket trooper with 2 shots cloacked with BW - It's one BURST,  OK? Then i relaod, cloack, and again kill intantly kill a rocket trooper with 2 shots. both cloacked. one by one. burst. less than second. Have you read it? I cant do the same w/o cloack. But cd for my cloack is 3 seconds, so i can use it everytime a make a burst with bw, now have yoy read it all?now do you undertand?
And now, have you read it all? if, then how much time did i write 'have you read it?'

[Immortal Strife]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

ParanoidDrone wrote...

WARMACHINE9 wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I realize nerfers have a point. The Infiltrator is the ultimate support class. There's no reason why it should be the ultimate killing class too.

Not trying to start anything just curious how the infiltrator is a support class? Thought they were pure dps. Please explain.

Cloak makes them ideal for tackling the 4 devices objective and reviving downed players.

Sounds like fun, running around, hiding, reviving and possible capping the objective if that random mission even comes up. Lets' hope to God that the Package objective does not come up then I'm really screwed. 

GE's and AJA's don't do much in terms of firepower but they still have fun. Why? They get the satisfaction of helping their team out. The things you don't seem to like doing are some of the things I love about using the Infil class.

The Asari Justicar deals major damage with area reave and her bubble if specced for offense. The GE has a healing turret, overload-one of the best power in the game imo, tactical awarness with HM, and you get to make the GPS hit harder with the Geth weapon bonus. Both of your examples are actually very good characters. 

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 04 juin 2012 - 09:53 .

[Immortal Strife]

DSRoy wrote...

1) BioWare/EA should have no problem with OP classes: just buff the enemies so that every other class is underpowered, and encourage store purchases to keep up.

2) Every class is a support class, whether its single target dps, crowd control, healing, debuffing, or objective capping, etc.  The fact that its even possible to win gold matches with all players playing the same class (and even build) is a design flaw, in a game that should (IMO) support diversity and teamwork.

3) The fix has been obvious to me for a very long time. Keep the TC skill tree as is, but decloak immediately at the very first shot or power use (unless TC:6 bonus power is taken). SIs and GIs could have their ED/prox mine, or their sniper rifle multiplier, but not both. The window for multiple shots or power use + shot(s} make the class OP compared to others.

Why would anyone use proximity mine when a TC shot does more damage?

[Aifell_Ellion]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

I posted about half a dozen more screenies of all different classes beating out infils with decent scores. At least one of em would be salarian

The best idea I have heard regarding infiltrator balance is to make only the first shot/power to break cloak receive the damage bonus.

origin id: Aifell_Ellion. Acually, i would be pleased to be beaten by a good player. So you're welcome if you want to try.

[WARMACHINE9]

I think half is a little drastic, though a small say 15 to 25% wouldn't be too bad and YES they should totally buff soldier damage. Their powers are ok but as I believe you stated earlier soldiers are SUPPOSED to be weapons masters.

[Atheosis]

The premise of this thread is ridiculous. Yes if they over-nerf Tactical Cloak Infiltrators will suck. But a small nerf like making the damage bonus additive rather than multiplicative would not render the class "nearly useless". The fact is that Infiltrators do too much damage relative to every other class right now. I really can't believe people are arguing otherwise.

[Yajuu Omoi]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

WARMACHINE9 wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I realize nerfers have a point. The Infiltrator is the ultimate support class. There's no reason why it should be the ultimate killing class too.

Not trying to start anything just curious how the infiltrator is a support class? Thought they were pure dps. Please explain.

Reviving is the easy for them, doing objectives is easy for them, their cloak allows them to lay down supressive fire. Stuff like that.

supressive fire? are you kidding?!? ONE shot and cloak is gone, thats not supressive fire, thats a kill shot space.
Soldiers are the supressive fire, mob killers.
Infils are not.

and with the whole bit of enemies seeing straight through cloak now...it shouldn't even be CALLED cloak...
so they USED to be able to infiltrate and get a kill...now...they just shoot at you from really far away... 

[Jay Leon Hart]

Adhok42 wrote...
That's why I always go for the skulls if I can help it. You nerf the bonus damage and even a Cloaked Headshot won't be able to put them down. Kind of sad for class that prides itself on being heavily sniper based.

Which is why all I want changed is Cloak bypassing the weight-cooldown system - then it's not just a case of "what will give me the most kills?" but "what weapon best balances weight so I can still kill quickly, but doesn't give Cloak a 20s cooldown?"

[Atheosis]

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

Adhok42 wrote...
That's why I always go for the skulls if I can help it. You nerf the bonus damage and even a Cloaked Headshot won't be able to put them down. Kind of sad for class that prides itself on being heavily sniper based.

Which is why all I want changed is Cloak bypassing the weight-cooldown system - then it's not just a case of "what will give me the most kills?" but "what weapon best balances weight so I can still kill quickly, but doesn't give Cloak a 20s cooldown?"

Thus leading to heavy sniper rifles never being used...

[DSRoy]

Immortal Strife wrote...
Why would anyone use proximity mine when a TC shot does more damage?

All those all GI speedruns use prox mine (for area damage & 20% debuff) + TC buffed non-sniper weapon fire spam during the TC buff window.  And can do so at TC 4, allowing prox mine, hunter mode, & racial passives to be maxed with fitness at 4.  

Closing the TC damage buff window immediately would force infiltrator classes to actually choose: max sniper damage, OR debuff / ED etc + a still pretty strong shot at TC 6, while having to sacrifice a skill/passive somewhere else.  It encourages a diversity of builds.  While preventing TC > buffed claymore shot > reload cancel > buffed claymore shot  > TC window closes overkill (substitute your other favored weapon).

Modifié par DSRoy, 04 juin 2012 - 10:10 .

[toastar]

What's with all the support class talk? Capping objectives and killing bosses are two of the 4 main objectives, if anything that makes the Infiltrator one of the mainstays of the group, and what's wrong with that?

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I understand and respect your opinion too. I think cutting the DMG bonus of the TC in half and buffing the DMG Solidiers do with weapons would make a lot of people happy. Infiltrators have a good damage boost and the Solidier actually FEELS like a weapons master. That's why I think many people are angry with Infiltrators, they do more weapon damage than Soldiers.

A properly specced and played soldier should outkill an infiltrator in any weapon class except the Sniper rifle and maybe shotguns and that's how it should be tbh.

An infiltrator is a Soldier/Engineer hybrid, there's no reason why he shouldn't deal as much weapon damage as a soldier, it's not like he has other überpowers going for him, he is less surviveable out of cloak after all.

[Adhok42]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Do you want me to qoute myself or to teach you to read? have you read it?I can kill a rocket trooper with 2 shots cloacked with BW - It's one BURST,  OK? Then i relaod, cloack, and again kill intantly kill a rocket trooper with 2 shots. both cloacked. one by one. burst. less than second. Have you read it? I cant do the same w/o cloack. But cd for my cloack is 3 seconds, so i can use it everytime a make a burst with bw, now have yoy read it all?now do you undertand?
And now, have you read it all? if, then how much time did i write 'have you read it?'

So you're admitting that you're wrong about being able to NOT kill things in one "burst" on Gold right?

Is that what you're trying to say to me? Why the hell didn't you just say that? That's much easier to say then the mess you were attempting to communicate earlier.

You know the Incisor Rifle might be right up your ally. That thing fires three round bursts in one trigger pull. That counts as a single "shot".

[Aifell_Ellion]

Adhok42 wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Do you want me to qoute myself or to teach you to read? have you read it?I can kill a rocket trooper with 2 shots cloacked with BW - It's one BURST,  OK? Then i relaod, cloack, and again kill intantly kill a rocket trooper with 2 shots. both cloacked. one by one. burst. less than second. Have you read it? I cant do the same w/o cloack. But cd for my cloack is 3 seconds, so i can use it everytime a make a burst with bw, now have yoy read it all?now do you undertand?
And now, have you read it all? if, then how much time did i write 'have you read it?'

So you're admitting that you're wrong about being able to NOT kill things in one "burst" on Gold right?

Is that what you're trying to say to me? Why the hell didn't you just say that? That's much easier to say then the mess you were attempting to communicate earlier.

You know the Incisor Rifle might be right up your ally. That thing fires three round bursts in one trigger pull. That counts as a single "shot".

I still cant understand what's wrong for you with what i'm saying. I never said anyone can kill any shielded target with a single shot on gold, as well as i have never said noone is able to kill a shileded target with one burst.