301 réponses à ce sujet

[toastar]

Atheosis wrote...

Are you really saying Infiltrators don't excel at combat?  Seriously?

I think he merely said they cannot soak up as much damage as the soldier (they can't) or have as much technical wizardry as engineers (they haven't).

I think he's right on with that assessment.

[toastar]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...
It is like that in some situations. In others it's like i'm saying it. But it's not the point/. I just want to see infs been brought back to the main mechanics or weight and cd. Rules are rules. For eveyone. Wont ruin infs. Still deal damage, Mantis and raptor will be preferable, though.

And who, if not the designated sniper class should sport the big guns then?

I think there's a point. You may have missed it.

[Atheosis]

toastar wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Are you really saying Infiltrators don't excel at combat?  Seriously?

I think he merely said they cannot soak up as much damage as the soldier (they can't) or have as much technical wizardry as engineers (they haven't).

I think he's right on with that assessment.

Properly played Infiltrators pretty much never get shot at if they have teammates, so no he is not right in his assessment.   Functionally, Infiltrators are actually much more resilient on the battlefield because they don't get targeted by everything constantly like a soldier does.

[Adhok42]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

The ability to turn invisible: The ultimate survival perk.

If used in conjuction properly it allow the Infiltrator to negate the enemy's ablitly to take cover by allowing him to manuver into a position where it's useless and kill him without the enemy being able to fight back.

The engineer's specialty fresh out of the box is the Deconstructor. They force enemies out of cover applying techinal powers to debuff them as well.

[PhoenixBlue]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Destructo-Bot wrote...

I posted about half a dozen more screenies of all different classes beating out infils with decent scores. At least one of em would be salarian

The best idea I have heard regarding infiltrator balance is to make only the first shot/power to break cloak receive the damage bonus.

origin id: Aifell_Ellion. Acually, i would be pleased to be beaten by a good player. So you're welcome if you want to try.

>Checks Aifell_Ellion's multiplayer manifest
>Everything specced at Level X
>SeemsLegit.jpg

[toastar]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

The ability to turn invisible: The ultimate survival perk.

Survival is not the same as soaking up damage though.

Asaris will always prefer a Krogan soldier next them, as a Inf just sheds Aggro, a soldier or a sentinal takes it.

[Jay Leon Hart]

toastar wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...
It is like that in some situations. In others it's like i'm saying it. But it's not the point/. I just want to see infs been brought back to the main mechanics or weight and cd. Rules are rules. For eveyone. Wont ruin infs. Still deal damage, Mantis and raptor will be preferable, though.

And who, if not the designated sniper class should sport the big guns then?

I think there's a point. You may have missed it.

Then at least make using a power from Cloak instead of shooting (unless you take the rank 6 power evolution) use the full cooldown of that power. There - no change if all you want is the big gun, but balanced power usage vs every other class.

[cuzIMgood]

sibergaming wrote...

Sigh. One of the few shooting games I find and enjoy, and everyone wants to nerf everything so they can have a bigger e-peen contest.

Do you even think when you post?  People call for both nerfs and buffs for very legitimate reasons to help balance the game. 

I think the infiltrator (or more so tac cloak) could use a nerf mainly to the damage part of tc as that is all it is really being used for right now.  They are already the best medics, objective takers, and have some of the best survivability.  No need to give them the highest dps too.

[toastar]

Atheosis wrote...

Properly played Infiltrators pretty much never get shot at if they have teammates, so no he is not right in his assessment.   Functionally, Infiltrators are actually much more resilient on the battlefield because they don't get targeted by everything constantly like a soldier does.

See above. Surviveability is something different than being able to take damage, especially in a team game. 

An Inf is very surviveable, but not all that resilient, unless specced that way. And if he's specced for health&shields, there's not a lot of engineer left.

[toastar]

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

Then at least make using a power from Cloak instead of shooting (unless you take the rank 6 power evolution) use the full cooldown of that power. There - no change if all you want is the big gun, but balanced power usage vs every other class.

I have no objections to that.

[Atheosis]

toastar wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Properly played Infiltrators pretty much never get shot at if they have teammates, so no he is not right in his assessment.   Functionally, Infiltrators are actually much more resilient on the battlefield because they don't get targeted by everything constantly like a soldier does.

See above. Surviveability is something different than being able to take damage, especially in a team game. 

An Inf is very surviveable, but not all that resilient, unless specced that way. And if he's specced for health&shields, there's not a lot of engineer left.

Yes and you have to actually spec a soldier for durability as well.  Your point?

[Nickle]

The game is perfectly balanced at the moment, only sentinels and engineers are a little underpowered vs certain enemies with the wrong team.

[Aifell_Ellion]

Atheosis wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

toastar wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Infiltartor tnh is much more survivable that soldier.

Yes, most certainly, but that's because you can avoid damage, not suck it up like a soldier or sentinal.
Well played soldiers don't die a lot either, it just requires a different skillset.

Try not taking those passives and go for powers instead, the next time a phantom sees through the cloak of your GI, you.will.die.

You can spec an Infiltrator for surviveability, or course, but then you're either left with very little power damage or no proper grenades.

 

Aifell_Ellion wrote...
 And on top of this infiltrator also deals more damage.

A Soldier with marksman skill and a heavy auto weapon out-DMSs every infiltrator, you just have to get closer top the enemy.
A Batarian or Krogan Soldier who does not interpret his health stat as an open invitation for stupidity can soak up a lot of abuse.
An infiltrator does better with a sniper rifles (its his signature weapon, duh) and due to to the fact that he gets closer to the enemy unpunished also some shotguns, but a well played soldier or sentinel can score just as well as an infiltrator, the learning curve is just steeper.

It is like that in some situations. In others it's like i'm saying it. But it's not the point/. I just want to see infs been brought back to the main mechanics or weight and cd. Rules are rules. For eveyone. Wont ruin infs. Still deal damage, Mantis and raptor will be preferable, though.

Your last sentence sums up why your idea is terrible.

So you think its definetely inf who should use bw and javelin - bacause they are the only class not affected by its way? 
The mantis and raptor and other lighter sr are created for that - to be used by infs and deal a lot of damage with damage bonuses of tc, and for infs to be able to use tc often
BW and Javelin also acceptable for inf but it should be like that: deal a lot of damage, because theyre powerful enough on their own, sometimes (but rare) used with tc to increase damage . The fact, that bw and javelin would make inf to use tc bonuses only once in a while will equal the damage inf deal with bw/jav and raptor/mantis.

[gilgamesh v9]

Tac cloak doesn't even make you invisible against Geth, they see right thru it

[Fortack]

toastar wrote...

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

Then at least make using a power from Cloak instead of shooting (unless you take the rank 6 power evolution) use the full cooldown of that power. There - no change if all you want is the big gun, but balanced power usage vs every other class.

I have no objections to that.

Which will make pretty much every one dump their (Black) Widow, Claymore or whatever heavy weapon to roll with the Paladin, Carnifex, Talon or that sort of junk - like all other classes already do. That's a terrible idea.

The problem is the horrible weight-cooldown system which should be removed entirely. I would replace it with a system that gives classes a base weight carrying capacity which can be upgraded by investing skillpoints in the passive or a new 6th tree. That would mean that every class can use whatever weapon but to use the heaviest they have to invest skillpoints to enable that. Skillpoints that could otherwise be used to improve powers.

Modifié par Fortack, 04 juin 2012 - 11:35 .

[toastar]

Atheosis wrote...

Yes and you have to actually spec a soldier for durability as well.  Your point?

That a Krogan soldier with all passives or a Vorcha in heat can eat damage like no Infiltrator ever could, an Inf can just avoid damage altogether..

In a well balaced team that is certainly a factor as the enemy will always be shooting at someone, ask any Asari who ever played with 3 Infs who weren't any good at killing stuff quickly, but very good at staying hidden.

Modifié par toastar, 04 juin 2012 - 11:44 .

[toastar]

Fortack wrote...

Which will make pretty much every one dump their (Black) Widow, Claymore or whatever heavy weapon to roll with the Paladin, Carnifex, Talon or that sort of junk - like all other classes already do. That's a terrible idea.

They way I understood it, and I can relate to that, is that he want's to get rid of the "fire your power for free under cloak" function the cloak currently has, as a briefly used cloak will recharge faster than the power fired would when lobbing that javelin around.

There is no reason why energy drain should be ready faster when fired under cloak than when fired out of it.

gilgamesh v9 wrote...

Tac cloak doesn't even make you invisible against Geth, they see right thru it

No they don't.

Modifié par toastar, 04 juin 2012 - 11:46 .

[Deviija]

It's a co-op game we play cooperatively, not competitively. Why are we always arguing about nerfing x, y, or z power, or how OP something else is? Does an infiltrator getting a highscore from high damage for your team, helping you win the game, cause that much of an issue? If folks are unhappy with other classes, and the utility of them, then let's focus on tweaking and upgrading them rather than trying to tear down/'rebalance'/nerf something.

[Finnegone]

Deviija wrote...


It's a co-op game we play cooperatively, not competitively. Why are we always arguing about nerfing x, y, or z power, or how OP something else is? Does an infiltrator getting a highscore from high damage for your team, helping you win the game, cause that much of an issue? If folks are unhappy with other classes, and the utility of them, then let's focus on tweaking and upgrading them rather than trying to tear down/'rebalance'/nerf something.

This.

I have a feeling that most of the nerf herd either don't play on gold or are viciously annoying to co-op with in a public game, given their mysterious fixation on end game score. If someone on my team is consistently eliminating threats (even - gasp - those I've already targeted), capping objectives and reviving me, then I immediately send them good feedback after the game. The point is to beat the map and make money, not accumulate do-nothing points.

And why pick on the infilitrator, for all that? HV, KV, AJA and AA are all equally powerful; the two latter classes are also much easier to use effectively than the infiliatrator. And by the way, the HS can maintain a 70% damage bonus for 6.8 seconds whilst automagically refilling their clip, then do it all again a few seconds later (all at 100% shields, no less). In fact, if I had to balance the game, I think a few classes - the engineers come to mind, but perhaps that's because I'm not particularly good with any save the geth - come to mind as needing a boost, versus a buff.

[We Tigers]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

We Tigers wrote...

 Why does that guy keep spelling it "cloack"?   Anyway, this comment irked me:

The Mad Hanar wrote...
I understand and respect your opinion too. I think cutting the DMG bonus of the TC in half and buffing the DMG Solidiers do with weapons would make a lot of people happy. Infiltrators have a good damage boost and the Solidier actually FEELS like a weapons master. That's why I think many people are angry with Infiltrators, they do more weapon damage than Soldiers.

Erm..so you want soldiers to have better than the 50-70% damage boost they get now, which they get for 5.2-6.8 seconds?  And you want the infiltrators to do...what, 45-65% damage, which they'd get for 2.5 seconds?   It sounds like you want people to stop playing infiltrators and switch to soldiers, because all the utility of "capping objectives" and "reviving teammates" applies to about 5% of the game.   Also, infiltrators have done more burst damage than soldiers in every Mass Effect game to this point.  It's nothing new.  

If you're making a drastic suggestion like that, you shouldn't make a suggestion. 

because cloack is closer to cloaca.
Anyway. Soldiers are supposed to deal damange with heavy weapons. And wait. Every 5.2-6.8 seconds? Which guns do you want to use to get that? an avenger? kidding ok? but with 2 heavy weapons it will still take more time.

You misunderstand.  5.2 and 6.8 seconds are the durations for adrenaline rush depending on which evolution you take.  And the AR cooldown is really short--it has a 6-second base at 0%, which means that even a Black Widow user won't hit longer than 6 seconds.   I just completely disagree with your premise; you really want infiltrators to be poor damage dealers because you think the cloak utility is a lot higher than it is.  We do not see eye to eye on this, especially with this strange focus of yours on the Raptor and Mantis.

[RiouHotaru]

Can I ask what the heck started this argument in the first place? I check the board and suddenly people are baying for a TC nerf?

What happened?

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Can I ask what the heck started this argument in the first place? I check the board and suddenly people are baying for a TC nerf?

What happened?

In order of the events

SI,GI,People finding out backfire is amazing, KYrsae.


Bioware MP team seems to play Infillies exsclusivley. 

[Atheosis]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Bioware MP team seems to play Infillies exsclusivley. 

Is this really true?  It would actually explain a lot...

[Jay Leon Hart]

Fortack wrote...

toastar wrote...

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

Then at least make using a power from Cloak instead of shooting (unless you take the rank 6 power evolution) use the full cooldown of that power. There - no change if all you want is the big gun, but balanced power usage vs every other class.

I have no objections to that.

Which will make pretty much every one dump their (Black) Widow, Claymore or whatever heavy weapon to roll with the Paladin, Carnifex, Talon or that sort of junk - like all other classes already do. That's a terrible idea.

The problem is the horrible weight-cooldown system which should be removed entirely. I would replace it with a system that gives classes a base weight carrying capacity which can be upgraded by investing skillpoints in the passive or a new 6th tree. That would mean that every class can use whatever weapon but to use the heaviest they have to invest skillpoints to enable that. Skillpoints that could otherwise be used to improve powers.

While that looks like a good idea, I'm not hopeful for a revamp of the whole system. Not everyone will dump their heavier weapons if all they have to choose between is Cloak rank 6 Sniper damage so better sniper shots but longer cooldowns, or Cloak rank 6 power use for better power damage and still getting an increased shot, with the current cooldowns.