301 réponses à ce sujet

[Yajuu Omoi]

InfamousResult wrote...

The Milky Waver wrote...

 infiltrators' only uses would be to revive undetected, and to cap objectives undetected,

+ Escaping boxed-in areas to get a better vantage point.

So.. Tactical uses of a Cloak that no other class can use?
HMM HOW USELESS THIS ABILITY SOUNDS.

It already IS practically useless on Gold...enemies see straight through TC no matter what.

[landylan]

i like what fortack has to say. i think if the other combat classes had passive bonuses(and krogan and maybe batarian stunlock removed)that increased weapon damage more it would be even. you could nerf the cooldown of tactical cloak if you give the infils a slight passive weapon damage bonus too. then they wouldnt be able to sit around and dump all the enemy fire on the team, they would also have to land headshots and use some real skill

[landylan]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

The Milky Waver wrote...

 infiltrators' only uses would be to revive undetected, and to cap objectives undetected,

+ Escaping boxed-in areas to get a better vantage point.

So.. Tactical uses of a Cloak that no other class can use?
HMM HOW USELESS THIS ABILITY SOUNDS.

It already IS practically useless on Gold...enemies see straight through TC no matter what.

not really..... there is some wierd thing with rocket troopers and atlas rockets but if you take a good path, you have no problems

[Fortack]

Kronner wrote...

Fortack wrote...

Kronner wrote...

All this would do is **** up weapons like Black Widow, Javelin, Widow, Claymore on Infiltrators. Nothing else.

That's the problem of the crappy weight vs cooldown system and has nothing to do with the Infiltrator or Cloak.

Doesn't change the fact that doubling the minimal Cloak cooldown if you are using a heavy weapon would cripple those builds.

You mean like how the CD system cripples everyone else when they chose to use one of the weapons you've listed?

It's simply terrible design when only one class can use the heavy weapons without gimping themselves on purpose.

[Vlta]

Didn't they already do something to TC? I swear even more enemies see me when I'm invisible now.

[Tankcommander]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

humes spork wrote...

The Milky Waver wrote...

...Without that extra weapon damage, infiltrators' only uses would be to revive undetected, and to cap objectives undetected...

God forbid infiltrators have to work with their team in a team game and use their cloak for things other than "roflstompbadgais". As it is, "merely" the ability to revive, cap, and reposition undetected is overwhelmingly useful to a smart player who's working with their team opposed to lone wolfing like some kind of confused CoD reject.

As a Infiltrator I do all that. I also would like my guns to do more damage than a water gun.

Amen to that.

[Kronner]

Fortack wrote...
You mean like how the CD system cripples everyone else when they chose to use one of the weapons you've listed?

Not really. It would not be a big problem from a purely damage perspective, but the other utilities that Cloak offers (to the whole team I'd add) would be unusable. You can bet I am not gonna rez you in a middle of a warzone if I can't use Cloak for 6 seconds. And I am not gonna do the capture objectives either. If my team is OK with that, then be my guest, double the base cooldown.

Fortack wrote... 
It's simply terrible design when only one class can use the heavy weapons without gimping themselves on purpose.

The weight system is just stupid, and Cloak is one of the few things that can circumvent that ****e.

Modifié par Kronner, 04 juin 2012 - 02:53 .

[Aifell_Ellion]

Vlta wrote...

Didn't they already do something to TC? I swear even more enemies see me when I'm invisible now.

Mentioned before. You cant use cloack properly, cuz you dont know the mechanics of it (which shows you're noob)
but you still hit the top with inf (which is supposed to show that you're pro)
So inf makes you pro even if you're noob. Another proof of inf been outclassed.

[RogenTAU]

As i see there should be slight delay before the damage bonus is recieved, so it is not posible to just hit cloak and hit fire, to recieve the damage bonus.
Depending how long that delay would be, there could be even damage bonus.

In essence you will get the damage bonus only after some time when you stay cloaked (1s - 2s).

This way it will be still usable to hit large targets, but it will limit thae insane potential against trash mobs.

There are also other ways how to deal with the cloak, lower the damage, but give it power to ignore shield gate is another valid option.
I would rather see that tactical cloak would provide more utility, over raw damage.

Evolutions like enhanced staggering (even on bosses), increased armor penetration, shield gate ignoring (lovering of penalty) are good alternatives to flat damage bonus.
While increased movent speed, faster relaod times, increased activation times are good utility bonuses.

So there is a many ways to change the current super soldier (infiltrator), to something more tactical.

[Aifell_Ellion]

Kronner wrote...

Fortack wrote...
You mean like how the CD system cripples everyone else when they chose to use one of the weapons you've listed?

Not really. It would not be a big problem from a purely damage perspective, but the other utilities that Cloak offers (to the whole team I'd add) would be unusable. You can bet I am not gonna rez you in a middle of a warzone if I can't use Cloak for 6 seconds. And I am not gonna do the capture objectives either. If my team is OK with that, then be my guest, double the base cooldown.

Fortack wrote... 
It's simply terrible design when only one class can use the heavy weapons without gimping themselves on purpose.

The weight system is just stupid, and Cloak is one of the few things that can circumvent that ****e.

So, i would actually do like you not to revive me in the middle of the freakin battlefield, so i can die again. i would like you to deal with enemies first, or just draw their attention to some other place to let sm1 esle revive me safely. i would like you too learn some strategy and tactics, to get some skills to be able to use smth except inf.
that's why i want it BALANCED.
What's the reason of 5 other classes if 1 outstands them all? Isnt bioware upset with all the effort put in adept,soldier,engineer,vanguard and sentinel, tactics and strategy, if the majority of the gamers prefer to stay noobs, and only play infiltrator?

Modifié par Aifell_Ellion, 04 juin 2012 - 03:05 .

[Aifell_Ellion]

Kronner wrote...

Fortack wrote...
You mean like how the CD system cripples everyone else when they chose to use one of the weapons you've listed?

Not really. It would not be a big problem from a purely damage perspective, but the other utilities that Cloak offers (to the whole team I'd add) would be unusable. You can bet I am not gonna rez you in a middle of a warzone if I can't use Cloak for 6 seconds. And I am not gonna do the capture objectives either. If my team is OK with that, then be my guest, double the base cooldown.

Fortack wrote... 
It's simply terrible design when only one class can use the heavy weapons without gimping themselves on purpose.

The weight system is just stupid, and Cloak is one of the few things that can circumvent that ****e.

The weight system can be replaced by different armor given to different classes (like in me1). acceptable. but for inf it should be only light armor then.
Otherwise (if not for weight system and armor) the casters are all outclassed. makes no sense. bang.

[Kronner]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...
So, i would actually like you not to revive me in the middle of the freakin battlefield, so i can die again. i would like you to deal with enemies first, or just draw their attention to some other place to let sm1 esle revive me safely. i would like you too learn some strategy and tactics, to get some skills to be able to use smth except inf.

 

Yea, you genius, except for the fact that sometimes it is much better to revive the fallen teammate even if some enemies are around. Obviously, you are not gonna go for a rez if there's a phantom goofing around or turret aimed at the fallen guy etc.

Aifell_Ellion wrote... 
that's why i want it BALANCED.
What's the reason of 5 other classes if 1 outstands them all? Isnt bioware upset with all the effort put in adept,soldier,engineer,vanguard and sentinel, tactics and strategy, if the majority of the gamers prefer to stay noobs, and only play infiltrator?

People who say that Infiltrators outclass all classes in any situation have no idea how to play the other classes, apparently. Or are just e-peen ****s.

[Aifell_Ellion]

Kronner wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...
So, i would actually like you not to revive me in the middle of the freakin battlefield, so i can die again. i would like you to deal with enemies first, or just draw their attention to some other place to let sm1 esle revive me safely. i would like you too learn some strategy and tactics, to get some skills to be able to use smth except inf.

 

Yea, you genius, except for the fact that sometimes it is much better to revive the fallen teammate even if some enemies are around. Obviously, you are not gonna go for a rez if there's a phantom goofing around or turret aimed at the fallen guy etc.

Aifell_Ellion wrote... 
that's why i want it BALANCED.
What's the reason of 5 other classes if 1 outstands them all? Isnt bioware upset with all the effort put in adept,soldier,engineer,vanguard and sentinel, tactics and strategy, if the majority of the gamers prefer to stay noobs, and only play infiltrator?

People who say that Infiltrators outclass all classes in any situation have no idea how to play the other classes, apparently. Or are just e-peen ****s.

Oh, okay, than people who do not understand that classes that ingore main mechanics are outclassed are just dum-b-s.
And as it is you who begun the insultings, and changed to personalities, i can see that you're out of arguments and no futher discussion can be considered reasonable.

Modifié par Aifell_Ellion, 04 juin 2012 - 03:11 .

[Blissey1]

yeah, they wouldn't still be the best class at capping objectives or reviving teammates or anything....

[MacGarrus]

I'd just get rid of the cloak duration thingwy, being able to carry two heavy weapons and still having tiny cloak recharge is why most people whine about the Infiltrator. It breaks one of the rules of this game: Cooldowns depend on weapon weight. As of now I can carry a BW6 and Claymore 10 and still have the same cooldowns as the Carnifex wielding infiltrator. So it takes ages to cap objectives, to be honest most Infiltrators i've played with don't even go for objectives anyway. I found it ironic that I, the Vorcha Sentinel, had to go cap the objective while the MQI was running around like a headless chicken with a Harrier and not even trying to help.

The joys of teamwork are endless...

[Aifell_Ellion]

MacGarrus wrote...

I'd just get rid of the cloak duration thingwy, being able to carry two heavy weapons and still having tiny cloak recharge is why most people whine about the Infiltrator. It breaks one of the rules of this game: Cooldowns depend on weapon weight. As of now I can carry a BW6 and Claymore 10 and still have the same cooldowns as the Carnifex wielding infiltrator. So it takes ages to cap objectives, to be honest most Infiltrators i've played with don't even go for objectives anyway. I found it ironic that I, the Vorcha Sentinel, had to go cap the objective while the MQI was running around like a headless chicken with a Harrier and not even trying to help.

The joys of teamwork are endless...

Yea, i guess you wouldnt find him on gold, if infiltators were just a little bit more fit in the game's rules ( i mean the one about cooldown and weight;) )

[Lee80]

When I play an infiltrator I always go for the objectives, but I am starting to understand why many don't. In every other match there's someone who is running to do the objective that shouldn't be. One match it was an asari adept, not the Justicar either...she didn't even have the bubble to protect herself with. After she of course got knocked out, I revived her and continued doing the objectives without her.

I thought s/he'd understand then that I can cloak and make it a lot easier on the rest of the team...but come wave 10 she was at it again. So that time I let her bleed out, then did the objectives in a very orderly fashion that got us a high bonus. Fun fun!

[ericjdev]

It's not getting nerfed, they aren't going to hurt the class over a few whiners

[CmnDwnWrkn]

BYC wrote...

I've been advocating reducing damage on sniper rifles for Tactical Cloak, but adding head shots back in.

I think that solves a lot of problems, although I think Krysae will still get nerfed.

Substituting a flat damage bonus with a headshot bonus is a great idea, and would be a good compromise.  Infiltrators would still get a damage bonus, they'd just have to work for it a little more.

[Aifell_Ellion]

ericjdev wrote...

It's not getting nerfed, they aren't going to hurt the class over a few whiners

Or, maybe they are not going to hurt 5 other classes by letting inf stand aside from all the restrictions applied to 5 other classes?
What do you think of it, huh?

[Beerfish]

ericjdev wrote...

It's not getting nerfed, they aren't going to hurt the class over a few whiners

See the new speed record thread?  All infiltrators.  A lot of games I enter these days at least two infiltrators.  If the stats going to the game maker show that the class is an overhwelming fav then it will get nerfed.

I have no real problem with them other than the fact my drell adept gets hammered pretty good when there is only one or no other non infils in a game.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

ericjdev wrote...

It's not getting nerfed, they aren't going to hurt the class over a few whiners

Or, maybe they are not going to hurt 5 other classes by letting inf stand aside from all the restrictions applied to 5 other classes?
What do you think of it, huh?

The majority of people who want infiltrator to stay as is are the people who play infiltrator exclusively.  They forgot that other classes exist a long time ago.

I'd be fine also with the other classes getting a boost.  But that's more difficult considering you have to alter 5 classes rather than just 1.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 04 juin 2012 - 03:34 .

[yarpenthemad21]

sniper infi is so boring, that ppl who want to play them all the time must be just very bored and lazy. If i want to play infi, SI or QI with claymore is my answer. Fast, mobile, fun.
There are a lot of noob infis out there. 90% know nothing about this class. They don't know how to reload cancel, that TC bonus last "some time", that you can use power in cloak and still get TC cooldown, that CD mostly doesn't matter. Yes, you can nerf damage bonus from 90 to 50, or make i last shorter, but it still doesn't matter. Im still able to 1 shot claymore any non boss...why? because I'm able to do this on soldier.... On good players it changes nothing, i will equip rail ramp and still be as "before". On majority of players it mean one thing = infi sucks.

Because of patch 1.03 infis aren't now "boss killers". Without severall debuff powers (PM, scan, maybe warp, cryo) killing prime is a lot of time.

Playing one class is way borring. You think infi are OP? Don't use them. Other ppl use them? Play with friends. Some idiot in lobby tells you to play GI with krysae? Tell him how stupid he is and leave.

[Achire]

Bioware has the gameplay stats. They know Infiltrator is the most played class on Gold. Whether they decide to do anything about it is another matter.

[Kronner]

Beerfish wrote...
See the new speed record thread?  All infiltrators.  A lot of games I enter these days at least two infiltrators.  If the stats going to the game maker show that the class is an overhwelming fav then it will get nerfed.
I have no real problem with them other than the fact my drell adept gets hammered pretty good when there is only one or no other non infils in a game

With Soldiers it takes us about 2-3 minutes longer on average. So I guess they need a nerf too.

Also lobbies full of Infiltrators that suck (yes, vast majority of them really do suck bad), clearly show that the class is not I-WIN-type.

And yes, 3 Infiltrators and one non-Infiltrator is a bad team setup in most sitations. But that just means that the players are stupid, not the class.