301 réponses à ce sujet

[humes spork]

We Tigers wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I would never take it.

Me neither. I'd go play a human soldier and use the adrenaline rush bonus.

Without damage bonuses, cloak is just a revive/flank/objective tool that happens to put most of your aggro on your teammates. Running around invisible for 8 seconds to set up a normal damage shot simply wouldn't be worth it, and infiltrators would no longer be useful as snipers. There is a very fine line here and anyone proposing a major dropoff in damage doesn't see it.

...and if tactical cloak's utility got nerfed away because it was by-and-large treated as an active damage bonus with absolutely no consideration for its overwhelming utility, and the skill had little to no use as an objective/revive/flank tool, I'd play a human soldier and use adrenaline rush as well since they actually get a free reload, stability bonuses, shield refresh and DR out of it.

Which would be why my infiltrators have sat at level 1, completely unused, since the patch.

But hey, it's all about the damage bonuses, right?

[Vlta]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Vlta wrote...

Didn't they already do something to TC? I swear even more enemies see me when I'm invisible now.

Mentioned before. You cant use cloack properly, cuz you dont know the mechanics of it (which shows you're noob)
but you still hit the top with inf (which is supposed to show that you're pro)
So inf makes you pro even if you're noob. Another proof of inf been outclassed.

The **** you say? I can use cloak just fine, not my fault bioware has some of the buggiest mp out there.

[Ravenmyste]

if you nerf TC then you will have one totally useless class infiltrator class is meant to be the high dps class but its also the weakest due the tc and its powers are so dependent on tc and every race that uses will get thrown on the trash heap because thats where we mostly get are dfamage from if you pick the evolved talents..

if they trash TC then they might as well trash every damage skill on every other class that does a increased damage while in skill or after skill has been used

[Dashmundo]

Don't remove the bonus. Just reduce it.

[Beerfish]

Kronner wrote...

Beerfish wrote...
See the new speed record thread?  All infiltrators.  A lot of games I enter these days at least two infiltrators.  If the stats going to the game maker show that the class is an overhwelming fav then it will get nerfed.
I have no real problem with them other than the fact my drell adept gets hammered pretty good when there is only one or no other non infils in a game

With Soldiers it takes us about 2-3 minutes longer on average. So I guess they need a nerf too.

Also lobbies full of Infiltrators that suck (yes, vast majority of them really do suck bad), clearly show that the class is not I-WIN-type.

And yes, 3 Infiltrators and one non-Infiltrator is a bad team setup in most sitations. But that just means that the players are stupid, not the class.

you mean stupid as in when you are going into a random lobby game every game you get assigned to has 2 infils?

[Kronner]

Beerfish wrote...
you mean stupid as in when you are going into a random lobby game every game you get assigned to has 2 infils?

No, I mean stupid as in they don't change their class when they see there's only one non-Infiltrator.

[Tankcommander]

Most of you don't seem to play Gold. The TC is pretty ineffective now at hiding you from things. On Bronze, they won't ever see you. On gold tho, expect to be hit through it all the time.

I liked the idea of making the damage bonuses counting for headshots, as to reward skill and balance the Krysae.

Other than that the TC doesn't need adjustments. It is only the go-to class for gold because a lot of classes are balanced like crap for gold (Krogan Soldier with constant stunning that makes his large health worthless, for example).

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Ravenmyste wrote...

if you nerf TC then you will have one totally useless class infiltrator class is meant to be the high dps class but its also the weakest due the tc and its powers are so dependent on tc and every race that uses will get thrown on the trash heap because thats where we mostly get are dfamage from if you pick the evolved talents..

if they trash TC then they might as well trash every damage skill on every other class that does a increased damage while in skill or after skill has been used

Infiltrator is meant to be the high dps class?  According to who?

And there already is the totally useless class - the Engineer.

[Rick__D]

Immortal Strife wrote...

Tangster wrote...

Have to agree, I wouldn't even look at an infiltrator class if it didn't have the damage bonuses.

Why would you? Nobody wants to be religated to team medic and objective capper.

"Sweet I can go invisable, wait why are my guns hardly doing any damage, crap, my powers are not doing any damage either, I guess I'll just run around, hide, and let my team kill everything." 

I would. I tend to stay away from infiltrator cus im not a great sniper but I would like an infiltrator that accually infiltrates. So I wouldnt mind damage bonus reduction for TC if Bioware fixed the invisibilty part. So less TACTICAL more CLOAK.

[Aifell_Ellion]

Vlta wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Vlta wrote...
Didn't they already do something to TC? I swear even more enemies see me when I'm invisible now.

Mentioned before. You cant use cloack properly, cuz you dont know the mechanics of it (which shows you're noob)but you still hit the top with inf (which is supposed to show that you're pro)So inf makes you pro even if you're noob. Another proof of inf been outclassed.

The **** you say? I can use cloak just fine, not my fault bioware has some of the buggiest mp out there.

Tankcommander wrote...

Most of you don't seem to play Gold. The TC is pretty ineffective now at hiding you from things. On Bronze, they won't ever see you. On gold tho, expect to be hit through it all the time.

I liked the idea of making the damage bonuses counting for headshots, as to reward skill and balance the Krysae.

Other than that the TC doesn't need adjustments. It is only the go-to class for gold because a lot of classes are balanced like crap for gold (Krogan Soldier with constant stunning that makes his large health worthless, for example).

If any one of you can tell exactly how tc works, maybe your word can mean smth.
Until you will not know the mechanics of tc, you will always use it in wrong way.

[We Tigers]

humes spork wrote...

We Tigers wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

I would never take it.

Me neither. I'd go play a human soldier and use the adrenaline rush bonus.

Without damage bonuses, cloak is just a revive/flank/objective tool that happens to put most of your aggro on your teammates. Running around invisible for 8 seconds to set up a normal damage shot simply wouldn't be worth it, and infiltrators would no longer be useful as snipers. There is a very fine line here and anyone proposing a major dropoff in damage doesn't see it.

...and if tactical cloak's utility got nerfed away because it was by-and-large treated as an active damage bonus with absolutely no consideration for its overwhelming utility, and the skill had little to no use as an objective/revive/flank tool, I'd play a human soldier and use adrenaline rush as well since they actually get a free reload, stability bonuses, shield refresh and DR out of it.

Which would be why my infiltrators have sat at level 1, completely unused, since the patch.

But hey, it's all about the damage bonuses, right?

Not quite following. Are there bugs in the patch affecting cloak, or are you disagreeing with me?

[Aifell_Ellion]

Ravenmyste wrote...

if you nerf TC then you will have one totally useless class infiltrator class is meant to be the high dps class but its also the weakest due the tc and its powers are so dependent on tc and every race that uses will get thrown on the trash heap because thats where we mostly get are dfamage from if you pick the evolved talents..

if they trash TC then they might as well trash every damage skill on every other class that does a increased damage while in skill or after skill has been used

It's not about damage bonus.
It's about the fact, that tc breaks one of the main rules of the game: heavier wepons = increased cooldown.
That's what is to be fixed

[Ravenmyste]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Ravenmyste wrote...

if you nerf TC then you will have one totally useless class infiltrator class is meant to be the high dps class but its also the weakest due the tc and its powers are so dependent on tc and every race that uses will get thrown on the trash heap because thats where we mostly get are dfamage from if you pick the evolved talents..

if they trash TC then they might as well trash every damage skill on every other class that does a increased damage while in skill or after skill has been used

Infiltrator is meant to be the high dps class?  According to who?

And there already is the totally useless class - the Engineer.

 are you a idiot look at the talents  the infiltrator is a high dps class, but its also  very situational high dps, and my qe is not useless on gold or silver sorry but you just failed to make a valid counter you know this right?

so according to who is bioware just like sentential is a tank supposedly

[Killahead]

Personally I would find the Infiltrator class a lot more interesting if the damage bonus was reduced. That would give me a designated role as an objective dealer and would make the tactical element a lot more important, and I would still be a bit nervous around phantoms (which I like). A class that allows me to do all of the following:

- Cloak, in itself an immensely valuable ability even if it had no other perks to it
- Cast a power with damage bonus without this adding to my cooldown
- Carry two weapons without worrying much about cooldowns
- Deal the most damage of any class, save for combos that usually take two players to do effectively
- Have some of the best powers in the game (hunter mode, energy drain, proxy mine, sabotage)

Just isn't interesting for me.

The whole overpowered issue isn't really my gripe with it, what bothers me is that this class could be so cool to use if I had to limit myself in one way or another when using it.

[cuzIMgood]

Honestly, is this thread serious?

The infiltrator is the best medic, objective taker, has probably the highest survivability, and can deal out some of the highest dps all due to tac cloak. You are telling me that if you take away one of these the infiltrator will be useless? lol no it will be more balanced.

I hope they take away or at least severely reduce the damage bonus cloak gives. Then the infiltrator might actually be used skillfully/tactfully instead of stand back and cloak shoot cloak shoot cloak shoot.

Modifié par cuzIMgood, 04 juin 2012 - 04:21 .

[Ravenmyste]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Ravenmyste wrote...

if you nerf TC then you will have one totally useless class infiltrator class is meant to be the high dps class but its also the weakest due the tc and its powers are so dependent on tc and every race that uses will get thrown on the trash heap because thats where we mostly get are damage from if you pick the evolved talents..

if they trash TC then they might as well trash every damage skill on every other class that does a increased damage while in skill or after skill has been used

It's not about damage bonus.
It's about the fact, that tc breaks one of the main rules of the game: heavier wepons = increased cooldown.
That's what is to be fixed

actually no it doesn't my geth i and si  suffer from it, its very noticeable but also noting i am also carrying around the javelinII and you will notice that cd is rather cumbersome to use if you just got off a good head shot, if any thing is making the weight being disregarded its the lighter weapons in the higher ranks in weapons rather then starting from the base, now if they can increase the lighter weapons base weight like they did with the javelin before it became the world heaviest next to a pregnant female krogan strapped to a adult male krogan..

if they can increase the weight of the higher ranks and leave the lower ranks alone say like 1-4 then modify it to increase weight a little like maybe 2% on all higher rank rifles then i can agree to it

Modifié par Ravenmyste, 04 juin 2012 - 04:36 .

[Aifell_Ellion]

Ravenmyste wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Ravenmyste wrote...

if you nerf TC then you will have one totally useless class infiltrator class is meant to be the high dps class but its also the weakest due the tc and its powers are so dependent on tc and every race that uses will get thrown on the trash heap because thats where we mostly get are dfamage from if you pick the evolved talents..

if they trash TC then they might as well trash every damage skill on every other class that does a increased damage while in skill or after skill has been used

It's not about damage bonus.
It's about the fact, that tc breaks one of the main rules of the game: heavier wepons = increased cooldown.
That's what is to be fixed

actually no it doesnt my geth i and di  suffer from it its very noticeable but also noteing i am also carrying around the javelinII and you will notice that cd is rather cumbersome to use if you just got off a good head shot, if any thing is making the weight being dis regarded oits the lighter ranks in weapons rather then starting from the base and going up

can you explain yourself more understandable?
and did you know of that shoot cloack shoot issue?

[Ravenmyste]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Ravenmyste wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Ravenmyste wrote...

if you nerf TC then you will have one totally useless class infiltrator class is meant to be the high dps class but its also the weakest due the tc and its powers are so dependent on tc and every race that uses will get thrown on the trash heap because thats where we mostly get are dfamage from if you pick the evolved talents..

if they trash TC then they might as well trash every damage skill on every other class that does a increased damage while in skill or after skill has been used

It's not about damage bonus.
It's about the fact, that tc breaks one of the main rules of the game: heavier wepons = increased cooldown.
That's what is to be fixed

actually no it doesnt my geth i and di  suffer from it its very noticeable but also noteing i am also carrying around the javelinII and you will notice that cd is rather cumbersome to use if you just got off a good head shot, if any thing is making the weight being dis regarded oits the lighter ranks in weapons rather then starting from the base and going up

can you explain yourself more understandable?
and did you know of that shoot cloak shoot issue?

i just fixed and  can you do the same, and i never noticed the shoot and cloak issue before unless i am doing something wrong, i always cloak  shoot then have to run around waiting for the cd to go away but i also play on the xbox so might not be on it unless i am really doing it the wrong way

Modifié par Ravenmyste, 04 juin 2012 - 04:34 .

[Jay Leon Hart]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote..
And there already is the totally useless class - the Engineer.

I must have missed the memo. I'd rank Soldiers and Vanguard (as a whole) lower than Engineers.

Modifié par Jay Leon Hart, 04 juin 2012 - 04:40 .

[Aifell_Ellion]

okay, now. the cooldown of tc depends on how long it was active. minimal cd is 3 seconds, which means that if you activate cloack, instantly shoot, then cd is 3 seconds.
And it is not affected by the weight of weapons you carry, which means that regardless of how heavy your weapons are the cd can always be the same!
Which breaks on of the main rules in me3mp: more weight=more cd.

[Aifell_Ellion]

 to those who think cloak is not hiding you from enemies:
In multiplayer, despite the skill being active, enemies will attack the player if:
   They see the Infiltrator begin cloaking, and is alone in the area.
   The Infiltrator is too close (nearly point-blank range).
   The Infiltrator is the last one standing during a wave.
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Tactical_Cloak

Modifié par Aifell_Ellion, 04 juin 2012 - 04:41 .

[Jay Leon Hart]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

okay, now. the cooldown of tc depends on how long it was active. minimal cd is 3 seconds, which means that if you activate cloack, instantly shoot, then cd is 3 seconds.
And it is not affected by the weight of weapons you carry, which means that regardless of how heavy your weapons are the cd can always be the same!
Which breaks on of the main rules in me3mp: more weight=more cd.

I agree - I love me some Infiltrator action, especially my Salarian and Geth, but being able to run around with a Widow and/or Claymore, firing off Proxy Mine then shooting something in the face, while retaining a 3s cooldown on abilities seems... off.

[Kronner]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

okay, now. the cooldown of tc depends on how long it was active. minimal cd is 3 seconds, which means that if you activate cloack, instantly shoot, then cd is 3 seconds.
And it is not affected by the weight of weapons you carry, which means that regardless of how heavy your weapons are the cd can always be the same!

Really? I had no idea, Sherlock.

/sarcasm

Aifell_Ellion wrote... 
Which breaks on of the main rules in me3mp: more weight=more cd.

 

No it does not. If you use Cloak in any other way than Cloak+immediate deCloak, your CD WILL suffer. 

[Adhok42]

Why is it that people insist on killing my Quarian? What part of nerfing or removing the damage bonus seems smart and brings the Infiltrator into balance? If anything it ruins the Infiltrator. Especially the FQI.

Geth and Cerberus aren't much trouble because of Sabotage on the Geth and Cerberus all have disconcerable heads to shoot for bonus damage.

Sabotage only detonates on organic targets when they fire their weapons. Ravangers are immune to this so the only two Reapers Sab works on are the Cannabals and the Mauraders.

Grenades aren't plentiful and people fight over them at higher difficulties as it is.

Half the Reapers are immune to Headshots as it is or don't have any heads TO shoot for bonus damage.

So what part of nerfing the damage boost "balances" the game to allow FQI to be able to fight against Reapers at all? It doesn't.

Also I regularly prey on the Shock Troops oneshotting them throught the skill and dropping them. If Geth Rocket Troopers, Geth Hunters, Reaper Mauraders, and Cerberus Centurions were left to their own devices, they would absolutely DESTROY squads. You take away the damage bonus and now these enemies would be significantly stronger if you're already lacking a class that saps shields effectively save the SI. How does THAT "balance" the game?

You really want to convince me it needs a nerf? Show me people who REGULARLY PLAY Infiltrator who think it needs a Nerf.

You didn't play just once to see what the fuss was about.

You didn't play just 5 or 6 matches to gather evidence you think makes it OP.

You have regularly dropped into a match as an Infiltrator since the day the Demo dropped.

Show me before I believe.

[Fortack]

Kronner wrote...

Not really. It would not be a big problem from a purely damage perspective, but the other utilities that Cloak offers (to the whole team I'd add) would be unusable. You can bet I am not gonna rez you in a middle of a warzone if I can't use Cloak for 6 seconds. And I am not gonna do the capture objectives either. If my team is OK with that, then be my guest, double the base cooldown.

That isn't a very strong argument Kronner. Reviving & objectives are things anyone should be doing, regardless class, when they have the opportunity (anything that is good for the team is good for everyone).
I never understood why people are claiming the Infiltrator is the designated medic or objective specialist anyway. When I get myself in a sh-tty situation and go down I wait to see if my teammates are able to correct my mistake and/or rez myself when it doesn't mean instant death.

The weight system is just stupid, and Cloak is one of the few things that can circumvent that ****e.

Agreed, but the other classes should have something to deal with this mess too. It's lame that equipping one (or two) heavy weapons makes powers more or less useless whilst those heavy weapons are not significantly better than their light weight competitors. Stuff like the Black Widow should be way ahead of the Paladin, and the Claymore should make the Talon look like crap. Unfortunately they don't, which is why nearly everyone (except those who favor style and accept the drawbacks) is using light weight OPistols.

All I am saying is that when the game uses a law it should apply to everyone. When the law sucks and makes a mess of things I prefer they change the law instead of placing one class above the law.