301 réponses à ce sujet

[Darksaberexile]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...
. i would like you too learn some strategy and tactics, to get some skills to be able to use smth except inf.
that's why i want it BALANCED.
What's the reason of 5 other classes if 1 outstands them all? Isnt bioware upset with all the effort put in adept,soldier,engineer,vanguard and sentinel, tactics and strategy, if the majority of the gamers prefer to stay noobs, and only play infiltrator?

I mainly play infiltrator, but also use an adept or geth engineer from time to time (I like the shield-restore on the turret). Since me1 infiltrator has always seemed to be the sniping class, so I prefer it because I like playing snipers. Not sure how that makes me a noob just because I prefer using a black widow to "warp--throw--warp--throw--warp--throw--stasis phantom--warp--throw". (I also tend to line up my shots before I cloak, so I am getting agro from enemies, cloak just means that it's in phases of agro-non agro-agro).

Also, love the assumption you give that infiltrators can't have learned any tactics or skills. You're totally not biased against anyone that plays the class, regardless of their reason, right?

[Aifell_Ellion]

Adhok42 wrote...

Why is it that people insist on killing my Quarian? What part of nerfing or removing the damage bonus seems smart and brings the Infiltrator into balance? If anything it ruins the Infiltrator. Especially the FQI.

Geth and Cerberus aren't much trouble because of Sabotage on the Geth and Cerberus all have disconcerable heads to shoot for bonus damage.

Sabotage only detonates on organic targets when they fire their weapons. Ravangers are immune to this so the only two Reapers Sab works on are the Cannabals and the Mauraders.

Grenades aren't plentiful and people fight over them at higher difficulties as it is.

Half the Reapers are immune to Headshots as it is or don't have any heads TO shoot for bonus damage.

So what part of nerfing the damage boost "balances" the game to allow FQI to be able to fight against Reapers at all? It doesn't.

Also I regularly prey on the Shock Troops oneshotting them throught the skill and dropping them. If Geth Rocket Troopers, Geth Hunters, Reaper Mauraders, and Cerberus Centurions were left to their own devices, they would absolutely DESTROY squads. You take away the damage bonus and now these enemies would be significantly stronger if you're already lacking a class that saps shields effectively save the SI. How does THAT "balance" the game?

You really want to convince me it needs a nerf? Show me people who REGULARLY PLAY Infiltrator who think it needs a Nerf.

You didn't play just once to see what the fuss was about.

You didn't play just 5 or 6 matches to gather evidence you think makes it OP.

You have regularly dropped into a match as an Infiltrator since the day the Demo dropped.

Show me before I believe.

I play infiltrator regularly. as well as soldiers and engineers. and sometimes sentinel vanguards and adpets. and i can say to those who play ONLY ifiltrator, that it needs a nerf!

[Aifell_Ellion]

Kronner wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

okay, now. the cooldown of tc depends on how long it was active. minimal cd is 3 seconds, which means that if you activate cloack, instantly shoot, then cd is 3 seconds.
And it is not affected by the weight of weapons you carry, which means that regardless of how heavy your weapons are the cd can always be the same!

Really? I had no idea, Sherlock.

/sarcasm

Aifell_Ellion wrote... 
Which breaks on of the main rules in me3mp: more weight=more cd.

 

No it does not. If you use Cloak in any other way than Cloak+immediate deCloak, your CD WILL suffer. 

Yeas, but THE ABILITY TO AVOID THIS RULES EXISTS AND THEREFORE MUST ME ERASED, can you inderstand this?! 

[Aifell_Ellion]

Darksaberexile wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...
. i would like you too learn some strategy and tactics, to get some skills to be able to use smth except inf.
that's why i want it BALANCED.
What's the reason of 5 other classes if 1 outstands them all? Isnt bioware upset with all the effort put in adept,soldier,engineer,vanguard and sentinel, tactics and strategy, if the majority of the gamers prefer to stay noobs, and only play infiltrator?

I mainly play infiltrator, but also use an adept or geth engineer from time to time (I like the shield-restore on the turret). Since me1 infiltrator has always seemed to be the sniping class, so I prefer it because I like playing snipers. Not sure how that makes me a noob just because I prefer using a black widow to "warp--throw--warp--throw--warp--throw--stasis phantom--warp--throw". (I also tend to line up my shots before I cloak, so I am getting agro from enemies, cloak just means that it's in phases of agro-non agro-agro).

Also, love the assumption you give that infiltrators can't have learned any tactics or skills. You're totally not biased against anyone that plays the class, regardless of their reason, right?

quote my whole post and read it once again (fully), then ask me again, if you still will be unable to understand.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Adhok42 wrote..
You really want to convince me it needs a nerf? Show me people who REGULARLY PLAY Infiltrator who think it needs a Nerf.

You didn't play just once to see what the fuss was about.

You didn't play just 5 or 6 matches to gather evidence you think makes it OP.

You have regularly dropped into a match as an Infiltrator since the day the Demo dropped.

Show me before I believe.

I regularly play Infiltrators (just less than I play Engineers)
I love my Valiant & Wraith on my Human(s)
I love my Widow on my Salarian
I'm trying to love the Claymore on my Geth

The cooldown needs to be consistent - then maybe I can love my other, lighter weapons some more

[Aifell_Ellion]

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

Adhok42 wrote..
You really want to convince me it needs a nerf? Show me people who REGULARLY PLAY Infiltrator who think it needs a Nerf.

You didn't play just once to see what the fuss was about.

You didn't play just 5 or 6 matches to gather evidence you think makes it OP.

You have regularly dropped into a match as an Infiltrator since the day the Demo dropped.

Show me before I believe.

I regularly play Infiltrators (just less than I play Engineers)
I love my Valiant & Wraith on my Human(s)
I love my Widow on my Salarian
I'm trying to love the Claymore on my Geth

The cooldown needs to be consistent - then maybe I can love my other, lighter weapons some more

Finally, someone reasonable. That's quite relaxed me, thanx for this post
I was just getting really nervous!

[CmnDwnWrkn]

This argument that sniping while cloaked is no different than Warp-Throw is getting old. When was the last time a Geth Pyro roll-dodged your Black Widow shot?

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 04 juin 2012 - 04:58 .

[DiebytheSword]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

This argument that sniping while cloaked is no different than Warp-Throw is getting old. When was the last time a Geth Pyro roll-dodged your Black Widow shot?

It actually happens quite often with Black Widow and the Valiant.  Widow, not so much.

They do dodge when shot and not killed with one bullet.

[Jay Leon Hart]

DiebytheSword wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

This argument that sniping while cloaked is no different than Warp-Throw is getting old. When was the last time a Geth Pyro roll-dodged your Black Widow shot?

It actually happens quite often with Black Widow and the Valiant.  Widow, not so much.

They do dodge when shot and not killed with one bullet.

Which I find makes the follow-up shot even easier, as the rolling animation leads to a 100% predictable crosshair placement for the headshot.

[humes spork]

We Tigers wrote...

Not quite following. Are there bugs in the patch affecting cloak, or are you disagreeing with me?

My point is, cloak used to have damage and utility. For whatever reason, its utility has been reduced considerably since release by enhancing enemies' awareness of and aim against cloaked infiltrators. As it stands, it's an incredibly dicey utility device and predominantly a damage buff. That's a pretty raw deal, especially comparing it to, as you and GP mentioned, AR which has vastly more utility as damage-dealing tool than cloak; and for players like myself who like(d) infiltrators for their utility, control (debuffing) and for what team support they can bring to bear.

[Minic78]

For the people who play it poorly, sure. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to make it work, and it'll still feel damn powerful in comparison to other classes.

YOU HEARD ME

BRING IT ON NERFDUCKS

[GGW KillerTiger]

InfamousResult wrote...

The Milky Waver wrote...

 infiltrators' only uses would be to revive undetected, and to cap objectives undetected,

+ Escaping boxed-in areas to get a better vantage point.

So.. Tactical uses of a Cloak that no other class can use?
HMM HOW USELESS THIS ABILITY SOUNDS.

As it stands being boxxed in and using Tactical Cloak on 360 you are still seen by every enemy throughout the entire map ...... So yes it is useless

[InfamousResult]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

As it stands being boxxed in and using Tactical Cloak on 360 you are still seen by every enemy throughout the entire map ...... So yes it is useless

Sure, now that Cloak doesn't work properly.

But if they nerf the DPS, then they should make cloak work properly and consistently. Having BOTH is ridiculous.

Why don't they just take away all cloak completely, make it pure DPS, and rename the class "Soldier"?

Modifié par InfamousResult, 04 juin 2012 - 06:27 .

[NuclearTech76]

landylan wrote...
gold is supposed to be hard. if they cant do it they should keep trying and fail to get better.....or just play silver

Yes but the last stats I saw said only 3 % if full extractions are on Gold. How many of that 3% is FBWGG? The goal should be to make the game more playable to all classes. The fact is even with TC being one of the best powers in the game, most players aren't good enough to extract on Gold. Buff the other classes for the fans of the other classes. Give the elite players a platinum level only assessible if you fully extract on every map on gold. Wouldn't that ultimately make the game more viable in the longterm than nerfing everything?

[RhythmlessNinja]

I've never seen so many idiots crying nerfs over a co-op game where absolutely nothing is effecting them in a negative way. Each class is built to do a certain roll, infiltrator happens to be the stealthy high damage "medic" sniper. Get over it and have fun, geez.

[InfamousResult]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Yes but the last stats I saw said only 3 % if full extractions are on Gold.

Because there's no real reward for Full Extraction on Gold, there are a lot of players who just don't give a crap after they get their 10th Wave money. Which isn't to say that they don't play until the end of the game- but the 3% is for Full Extraction, which means every single player in the LZ. Why go to the LZ if you're level 20? Why go if your whole team is level 20?

Point being, that 3% is way off.

[Aifell_Ellion]

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

I've never seen so many idiots crying nerfs over a co-op game where absolutely nothing is effecting them in a negative way. Each class is built to do a certain roll, infiltrator happens to be the stealthy high damage "medic" sniper. Get over it and have fun, geez.

So why wont just everyone play infiltrator if it's more powerdful? Just image mass effect 3 multiplayer with 100% of players are infiltrators. Seriously, will you like it?
Most of the people would go for a better class, only a few will play favourite dispite it's not as good as another. That's why the game should be balanced. It's not about the fact we dont enjoy it if one class if overpowered, or it breakes our fun. We just do care, that's all.

[DiebytheSword]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

I've never seen so many idiots crying nerfs over a co-op game where absolutely nothing is effecting them in a negative way. Each class is built to do a certain roll, infiltrator happens to be the stealthy high damage "medic" sniper. Get over it and have fun, geez.

So why wont just everyone play infiltrator if it's more powerdful? Just image mass effect 3 multiplayer with 100% of players are infiltrators. Seriously, will you like it?
Most of the people would go for a better class, only a few will play favourite dispite it's not as good as another. That's why the game should be balanced. It's not about the fact we dont enjoy it if one class if overpowered, or it breakes our fun. We just do care, that's all.

Your hypothtetical happens very infrequently on PC, and the All infiltrator team quickly learns that no class alone is an island.

People do, and will switch to other classes most of the time.

[NuclearTech76]

InfamousResult wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Yes but the last stats I saw said only 3 % if full extractions are on Gold.

Because there's no real reward for Full Extraction on Gold, there are a lot of players who just don't give a crap after they get their 10th Wave money. Which isn't to say that they don't play until the end of the game- but the 3% is for Full Extraction, which means every single player in the LZ. Why go to the LZ if you're level 20? Why go if your whole team is level 20?

Point being, that 3% is way off.

Almost every single game that I've played expect FBWGG, we try to reach full extraction. I understand some grind for credits but if you're doing that why not grind on the easiest map and enemy combo?

[InfamousResult]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Almost every single game that I've played expect FBWGG, we try to reach full extraction. I understand some grind for credits but if you're doing that why not grind on the easiest map and enemy combo?

They probably ARE grinding on the easiest map and enemy combos. Did the percentage say "3% of all RANDOM Gold games"? Chances are that it's 3% because most people are just farming Gold; and they're farming Gold because Gold has become too easy, because we have so much overpowered crap now. Then they just die / don't care about Full Extraction when it comes.

[Fortack]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Yes but the last stats I saw said only 3 % if full extractions are on Gold.

So?

If it said that only 3% of every match played on Gold ended with a full extraction you'd have a point, but it doesn't.

[Adhok42]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

Adhok42 wrote..
You really want to convince me it needs a nerf? Show me people who REGULARLY PLAY Infiltrator who think it needs a Nerf.

You didn't play just once to see what the fuss was about.

You didn't play just 5 or 6 matches to gather evidence you think makes it OP.

You have regularly dropped into a match as an Infiltrator since the day the Demo dropped.

Show me before I believe.

I regularly play Infiltrators (just less than I play Engineers)
I love my Valiant & Wraith on my Human(s)
I love my Widow on my Salarian
I'm trying to love the Claymore on my Geth

The cooldown needs to be consistent - then maybe I can love my other, lighter weapons some more

Finally, someone reasonable. That's quite relaxed me, thanx for this post
I was just getting really nervous!

Alright that's two half's to make up at least a whole person who plays Infiltrator who thinks it needs nerfed.

Close enough.

Read this and tell me if you still think it needs nerfed.

Level 16 FQI at 5/0/5/5/5. Using Mantis X, arguably fourth best bolt action rifle, equiped with extended barrel.

Tac spec'ed for bonus damage at rank 4. QD speced for bonus damage to headshots at rank 5.

Situation, Firebase Jade against Geth on Silver.

Geth Troopers

Uncloaked bodyshot = Two bars of health left.

Uncloaked headshot on Geth Trooper = Kill.

Geth Rocket Troopers

Uncloaked bodyshot = Shield pop.

Uncloaked headshot = Shield pop and some health eaten.

Cloaked bodyshot = Same as uncloaked headshot but with more health eaten.

Cloaked Headshot = Kill.

Geth Hunters

Largely the same as Rocket Troopers but harder to hit the head when they're cloaked.

At level 20 6/3/5/6/6 with Tac Cloak spec'ed for extra Rifle damage at 6 and QD spec'ed for additional weapons damage at 6. You get arguably the same results on Gold. Moreso if certain consumables are used.

Looks to me like I'm barely killing here. Why should Infiltrators have to suffer the indignaty of being unable to fufill their job of dropping the Shock Troops in one shot? What part of making "just barely killed" to "unable to kill in one shot" makes any of this "balanced"? The Infiltrator is meant to drop enemies face down into the dirt before they can even take their first step onto the battlefield. That's what it's advertised to do. That's what it does.

Infiltrator is working as intended.

Leave it alone.

Modifié par Adhok42, 04 juin 2012 - 07:30 .

[Lucius Aelius]

I for one am not advocating a nerf, as it is the only reason TC ever had a damage bonus at all was the idea that being invisible gives you the opportunity to get a critical hit.

The problem is that in a game where you have control over where you aim, that idea makes absolutely no sense. Shooting any spot on any enemy and having it magically be a critical hit is preposterous and silly. The only sensible thing to do is bring back critical hits on all enemies, even make those critical hits do more damage than before, and completely eliminate an infiltrator's damage bonus, such that instead of magically having every hit be a critical hit, actually make the infiltrator have to aim and shoot the weak spot to get their damage bonus.

I'm fine with the infiltrators doing every bit as much damage as they do now (I play as an infiltrator as much as any other class, I don't want it nerfed), but as it is any noob can hit any enemy anywhere and magically have it be a critical hit, which is just stupid. All I want is to make infiltrators earn their damage bonus by always having to actually shoot the weak spots, the TC providing them with invisibility (definitely need to fix the cloak in that regard) to take aim and shoot without being shot at themselves. Every weapon held by every character would be able to go for the same critical hits, but they won't be invisible and will be much more prone to being shot at.

So really I want is for the infiltrators to work in actuality the way they do now magically, anyone who can aim shouldn't have a problem, and anyone who can't aim probably shouldn't be using a precision weapon.

Oh, and Bioware, for the love of god, please get rid of auto-aim, or at least let us turn it off if we want to.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Adhok42 wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

Adhok42 wrote..
You really want to convince me it needs a nerf? Show me people who REGULARLY PLAY Infiltrator who think it needs a Nerf.

You didn't play just once to see what the fuss was about.

You didn't play just 5 or 6 matches to gather evidence you think makes it OP.

You have regularly dropped into a match as an Infiltrator since the day the Demo dropped.

Show me before I believe.

I regularly play Infiltrators (just less than I play Engineers)
I love my Valiant & Wraith on my Human(s)
I love my Widow on my Salarian
I'm trying to love the Claymore on my Geth

The cooldown needs to be consistent - then maybe I can love my other, lighter weapons some more

Finally, someone reasonable. That's quite relaxed me, thanx for this post
I was just getting really nervous!

*snip*

So this proves what, exactly?
Try an example on Gold, with a level 20, using Widow/Claymore/Wraith/Graal/Kishock/Kyrae/Valiant/BW/GPS

[Adhok42]

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

So this proves what, exactly?
Try an example on Gold, with a level 20, using Widow/Claymore/Wraith/Graal/Kishock/Kyrae/Valiant/BW/GPS

I did give you an example at Gold on 20 with a specific build. Changing the gun will only slightly influence the damage and surprisingly, depending on the gun, may not be much of a change.

Try it for yourself and you tell me how it works out.