301 réponses à ce sujet

[Aifell_Ellion]

Adhok42 wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

Adhok42 wrote..
You really want to convince me it needs a nerf? Show me people who REGULARLY PLAY Infiltrator who think it needs a Nerf.

You didn't play just once to see what the fuss was about.

You didn't play just 5 or 6 matches to gather evidence you think makes it OP.

You have regularly dropped into a match as an Infiltrator since the day the Demo dropped.

Show me before I believe.

I regularly play Infiltrators (just less than I play Engineers)
I love my Valiant & Wraith on my Human(s)
I love my Widow on my Salarian
I'm trying to love the Claymore on my Geth

The cooldown needs to be consistent - then maybe I can love my other, lighter weapons some more

Finally, someone reasonable. That's quite relaxed me, thanx for this post
I was just getting really nervous!

Alright that's two half's to make up at least a whole person who plays Infiltrator who thinks it needs nerfed.

Close enough.

Read this and tell me if you still think it needs nerfed.

Level 16 FQI at 5/0/5/5/5. Using Mantis X, arguably fourth best bolt action rifle, equiped with extended barrel.

Tac spec'ed for bonus damage at rank 4. QD speced for bonus damage to headshots at rank 5.

Situation, Firebase Jade against Geth on Silver.

Geth Troopers

Uncloaked bodyshot = Two bars of health left.

Uncloaked headshot on Geth Trooper = Kill.

Geth Rocket Troopers

Uncloaked bodyshot = Shield pop.

Uncloaked headshot = Shield pop and some health eaten.

Cloaked bodyshot = Same as uncloaked headshot but with more health eaten.

Cloaked Headshot = Kill.

Geth Hunters

Largely the same as Rocket Troopers but harder to hit the head when they're cloaked.

At level 20 6/3/5/6/6 with Tac Cloak spec'ed for extra Rifle damage at 6 and QD spec'ed for additional weapons damage at 6. You get arguably the same results on Gold. Moreso if certain consumables are used.

Looks to me like I'm barely killing here. Why should Infiltrators have to suffer the indignaty of being unable to fufill their job of dropping the Shock Troops in one shot? What part of making "just barely killed" to "unable to kill in one shot" makes any of this "balanced"? The Infiltrator is meant to drop enemies face down into the dirt before they can even take their first step onto the battlefield. That's what it's advertised to do. That's what it does.

Infiltrator is working as intended.

Leave it alone.

On gold you cant kill any shielded tager with one shot, regardless of how powerful that shot is (except for the cobra of course;)).
But using BW, which can fire 2 shots with cloack bonuses gives you ability to eliminate shields and kill with second hit (rocket troopers, at least, as i recall). And you are still capable of using tc for every BW's clip. And this last part bothers me.
Just compare it with soldier, who has adrenaline rush which gives you at best 70% bonus damage, and you can at best use it once in 11 seconds with just BW. And as a soldier you want to carry 2 heavy weapons with you, and still be competitive to infiltrator, which you obviously cant do now.
And i do not claim that damage bonuses of tc should be decreased, i just want the minimal cooldown time to depend on weight of weapons infiltrator carries, not the maximal. Or better just make constant, not depending on how long cloack was active, thats it. so you will still be able to kill troopers with 2 shots on gold with mantis - which is not that bad, considering the fact that no shileded target can be killed with 1 shot on gold.

[Immortal Strife]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Adhok42 wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

Adhok42 wrote..
You really want to convince me it needs a nerf? Show me people who REGULARLY PLAY Infiltrator who think it needs a Nerf.

You didn't play just once to see what the fuss was about.

You didn't play just 5 or 6 matches to gather evidence you think makes it OP.

You have regularly dropped into a match as an Infiltrator since the day the Demo dropped.

Show me before I believe.

I regularly play Infiltrators (just less than I play Engineers)
I love my Valiant & Wraith on my Human(s)
I love my Widow on my Salarian
I'm trying to love the Claymore on my Geth

The cooldown needs to be consistent - then maybe I can love my other, lighter weapons some more

Finally, someone reasonable. That's quite relaxed me, thanx for this post
I was just getting really nervous!

Alright that's two half's to make up at least a whole person who plays Infiltrator who thinks it needs nerfed.

Close enough.

Read this and tell me if you still think it needs nerfed.

Level 16 FQI at 5/0/5/5/5. Using Mantis X, arguably fourth best bolt action rifle, equiped with extended barrel.

Tac spec'ed for bonus damage at rank 4. QD speced for bonus damage to headshots at rank 5.

Situation, Firebase Jade against Geth on Silver.

Geth Troopers

Uncloaked bodyshot = Two bars of health left.

Uncloaked headshot on Geth Trooper = Kill.

Geth Rocket Troopers

Uncloaked bodyshot = Shield pop.

Uncloaked headshot = Shield pop and some health eaten.

Cloaked bodyshot = Same as uncloaked headshot but with more health eaten.

Cloaked Headshot = Kill.

Geth Hunters

Largely the same as Rocket Troopers but harder to hit the head when they're cloaked.

At level 20 6/3/5/6/6 with Tac Cloak spec'ed for extra Rifle damage at 6 and QD spec'ed for additional weapons damage at 6. You get arguably the same results on Gold. Moreso if certain consumables are used.

Looks to me like I'm barely killing here. Why should Infiltrators have to suffer the indignaty of being unable to fufill their job of dropping the Shock Troops in one shot? What part of making "just barely killed" to "unable to kill in one shot" makes any of this "balanced"? The Infiltrator is meant to drop enemies face down into the dirt before they can even take their first step onto the battlefield. That's what it's advertised to do. That's what it does.

Infiltrator is working as intended.

Leave it alone.

On gold you cant kill any shielded tager with one shot, regardless of how powerful that shot is (except for the cobra of course;)).
But using BW, which can fire 2 shots with cloack bonuses gives you ability to eliminate shields and kill with second hit (rocket troopers, at least, as i recall). And you are still capable of using tc for every BW's clip. And this last part bothers me.
Just compare it with soldier, who has adrenaline rush which gives you at best 70% bonus damage, and you can at best use it once in 11 seconds with just BW. And as a soldier you want to carry 2 heavy weapons with you, and still be competitive to infiltrator, which you obviously cant do now.
And i do not claim that damage bonuses of tc should be decreased, i just want the minimal cooldown time to depend on weight of weapons infiltrator carries, not the maximal. Or better just make constant, not depending on how long cloack was active, thats it. so you will still be able to kill troopers with 2 shots on gold with mantis - which is not that bad, considering the fact that no shileded target can be killed with 1 shot on gold.

Why are you carring two heavy weapons on a soldier? That sounds like a preference. Two heavy weapons is not ideal for the soldier because of cool down.

As far as weight goes in relation to cooldown on the infiltrator, the most damaging snipers are heavy, especially the Javelin. You suggestion seriously nerfs there use, again especially the Javelin. 

[Adhok42]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...


On gold you cant kill any shielded tager with one shot, regardless of how powerful that shot is (except for the cobra of course;)).

So why are you trying to tell me the Infiltrator is OP if you're of the belief they can't do that?

Sounds like circular logic if you ask me. "Infiltrator is OP, they can kill anything in one shot but wait you can't oneshot shielded enemies on Gold."

Make up your mind. When you do, try and find me, I'll be busy over here sniping these Cerber- *puntuates sentence with headshot*

[ol MISAKA lo]

I think I'm going to write a topic of nerf ethics and post it in a new thread later today...

[Jay Leon Hart]

Adhok42 wrote...

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

So this proves what, exactly?
Try an example on Gold, with a level 20, using Widow/Claymore/Wraith/Graal/Kishock/Kyrae/Valiant/BW/GPS

I did give you an example at Gold on 20 with a specific build. Changing the gun will only slightly influence the damage and surprisingly, depending on the gun, may not be much of a change.

Try it for yourself and you tell me how it works out.

Erm...

Adhok42 wrote...
Level 16 FQI at 5/0/5/5/5. Using Mantis X, arguably fourth best bolt action rifle, equiped with extended barrel.

Tac spec'ed for bonus damage at rank 4. QD speced for bonus damage to headshots at rank 5.

Situation, Firebase Jade against Geth on Silver.

Anyway, I don't play QI anymore - I don't like Sabotage and I have yet to unlock the male.
However, I have used all the sniper rifles I have unlocked on Silver and Gold versus all enemies on a variety of maps. Currently, there is no reason whatsoever for me to use any sniper rifle other than the Valiant on my Human(s) and Geth (to get around shieldgate) or Widow on my Salarian (yay for ED). I can manage 3 shots vs bosses, but only 2 headshots vs trash. So anything with more than a 3 round clip, personally I see as a waste of potential.

Modifié par Jay Leon Hart, 04 juin 2012 - 08:29 .

[toastar]

If ITC is so OP, there wouldn't be tons of mediocre Infiltrators out there in random games.

The infiltrator as a class is quite surviveable and has a low entry hurdle to being decent at, it is also rather self reliant, which is a bonus in PuG games, all this makes him attractive for new players on gold and in random games in general.
So what.

But I'd argue a well played Novaguard host will outscore a well played infiltrator most of the time.
So will a bunch of well played asaris.
The infiltrators damage output is prety much hard capped at what his weapon can deliver in conjuction with its cloak cycle, this potential is easy to tap, but not all that great really, at least if you're playing a sniper.
In a team with biotic or tech synergys other classes can destroy just as well, if not better.
If an Infiltator tops the scoresheet by a mile, that only means the other classes did not harness their potential. I wouldn't blame the inf for that.

[soldo9149]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Two shots with a Widow on a Cannibal. That's what people want for the Infiltrator.

i think its what you want for your infilitrator you crazy jellyfish

[Adhok42]

Really dude? You're going to make me quote myself? Did you read it through all the way?

Adhok42 wrote...


At level 20 6/3/5/6/6 with Tac Cloak spec'ed for extra Rifle damage at 6 and QD spec'ed for additional weapons damage at 6. You get arguably the same results on Gold. Moreso if certain consumables are used.

HEADSHOT.

[NOO3TASTIC]

Before calling for the nerf on TC those nerf herders should play a few gold games and try to kill boss units with just weapons and without using any biotic or tech powers. Play with a Batarian or Krogan soldier or something that doesn't have a power that increases weapon damage.

JFYI It takes almost 20 shots with a Javelin (supposedly the most powerful single shot sniper rifle) to kill a single Geth prime on gold if using non infiltrators or human soldiers.

[WARMACHINE9]

Soooo maybe I missed somrthing but did some one at BW mention they were going to nerf cloak or is this just fan hysteria? Also I would be against it only because Infiltrators are really one trick ponies and taking that trick away would severly hamper the playing exp. for a lot of people. Oh and before the nerf herders start flaming me the only infiltrator I really play is the FQI (don't get me started on Sabtage nerfs. makes me so sad.). Don't have the GI unlocked and don't particularly like the SI butdon't hate on those who do. Play as a HI rarely and use a Carni on it not a rifle(wierd I know but I gotta be me).

[Aifell_Ellion]

Adhok42 wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...


On gold you cant kill any shielded tager with one shot, regardless of how powerful that shot is (except for the cobra of course;)).

So why are you trying to tell me the Infiltrator is OP if you're of the belief they can't do that?

Sounds like circular logic if you ask me. "Infiltrator is OP, they can kill anything in one shot but wait you can't oneshot shielded enemies on Gold."

Make up your mind. When you do, try and find me, I'll be busy over here sniping these Cerber- *puntuates sentence with headshot*

Stop reading between the lines ,stupid?

[WARMACHINE9]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I realize nerfers have a point. The Infiltrator is the ultimate support class. There's no reason why it should be the ultimate killing class too.

Not trying to start anything just curious how the infiltrator is a support class? Thought they were pure dps. Please explain.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Adhok42 wrote...

Really dude? You're going to make me quote myself? Did you read it through all the way?

Adhok42 wrote...


At level 20 6/3/5/6/6 with Tac Cloak spec'ed for extra Rifle damage at 6 and QD spec'ed for additional weapons damage at 6. You get arguably the same results on Gold. Moreso if certain consumables are used.

HEADSHOT.

I stand (sit?) corrected. And no, I didn't read it all the way through - that you gave an example of a sub 20 on silver put me off.

Also, if you're barely killing? HEADSHOT is certainly good advice.

[Yajuu Omoi]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I realize nerfers have a point. The Infiltrator is the ultimate support class. There's no reason why it should be the ultimate killing class too.

HOW IS AN INFIL A SUPPORT class?!?!? It is a class built SPECIFICALLY to take down ONE target, at a time, very quickly.
THAT is their JOB.

a Soldier? takes out large mobs with Assault Rifles and grenades.

Get the hint? they aren't meant to be the same, STOP TRYING TO TURN THE INFILTRATORS INTO SOLDIERS!!!!!

[ParanoidDrone]

WARMACHINE9 wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I realize nerfers have a point. The Infiltrator is the ultimate support class. There's no reason why it should be the ultimate killing class too.

Not trying to start anything just curious how the infiltrator is a support class? Thought they were pure dps. Please explain.

Cloak makes them ideal for tackling the 4 devices objective and reviving downed players.

[Adhok42]

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

I stand (sit?) corrected. And no, I didn't read it all the way through - that you gave an example of a sub 20 on silver put me off.

Also, if you're barely killing? HEADSHOT is certainly good advice.

That's why I always go for the skulls if I can help it. You nerf the bonus damage and even a Cloaked Headshot won't be able to put them down. Kind of sad for class that prides itself on being heavily sniper based.

[Aifell_Ellion]

toastar wrote...
If ITC is so OP, there wouldn't be tons of mediocre Infiltrators out there in random games.
The infiltrator as a class is quite surviveable and has a low entry hurdle to being decent at, it is also rather self reliant, which is a bonus in PuG games, all this makes him attractive for new players on gold and in random games in general.So what.
But I'd argue a well played Novaguard host will outscore a well played infiltrator most of the time.So will a bunch of well played asaris.The infiltrators damage output is prety much hard capped at what his weapon can deliver in conjuction with its cloak cycle, this potential is easy to tap, but not all that great really, at least if you're playing a sniper. In a team with biotic or tech synergys other classes can destroy just as well, if not better.If an Infiltator tops the scoresheet by a mile, that only means the other classes did not harness their potential. I wouldn't blame the inf for that.

NOO3TASTIC wrote...

Before calling for the nerf on TC those nerf herders should play a few gold games and try to kill boss units with just weapons and without using any biotic or tech powers. Play with a Batarian or Krogan soldier or something that doesn't have a power that increases weapon damage.

JFYI It takes almost 20 shots with a Javelin (supposedly the most powerful single shot sniper rifle) to kill a single Geth prime on gold if using non infiltrators or human soldiers.

you guys seriously believe in what you're saying?
1.I've played smthn like... wait 100? 200? games with SI, and yet i dont remember anyone, but other SI outscoring me. I mean on gold, on silver, yea, vanguards can outscore SI sometimes, but not on gold.
2.20 shots? you seriously? you mean 20 shots, 10 of which will be missed? it takes no more than 10 clips for my batarian to bring down a freakin banshee or prime or whatsoever with wraith. yet 1wraith clip deals lesser damage than 1 javelin shot. Oh, god, what a shooter you should be.

[Grimy Bunyip]

id muuuuch rather lose my invisibility than my weapon damage on my infiltrator.

[Aifell_Ellion]

Adhok42 wrote...

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

I stand (sit?) corrected. And no, I didn't read it all the way through - that you gave an example of a sub 20 on silver put me off.

Also, if you're barely killing? HEADSHOT is certainly good advice.

That's why I always go for the skulls if I can help it. You nerf the bonus damage and even a Cloaked Headshot won't be able to put them down. Kind of sad for class that prides itself on being heavily sniper based.

You might want to start reading properly, but not the damage bonuses should be nerfed!!!! Can you finally understand that?
And, you can bring down rocket trooper with 2 HEADSHOT from mantis on gold, even w/o cloack!!!!
And You will not be able to kill him with one shot even with cloack even from ****n javelin!!!
So cloack does not increase your power against minor enemies!!!
Your statement is just INCORRECT

Modifié par Aifell_Ellion, 04 juin 2012 - 09:41 .

[Immortal Strife]

ParanoidDrone wrote...

WARMACHINE9 wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I realize nerfers have a point. The Infiltrator is the ultimate support class. There's no reason why it should be the ultimate killing class too.

Not trying to start anything just curious how the infiltrator is a support class? Thought they were pure dps. Please explain.

Cloak makes them ideal for tackling the 4 devices objective and reviving downed players.

Sounds like fun, running around, hiding, reviving and possible capping the objective if that random mission even comes up. Lets' hope to God that the Package objective does not come up then I'm really screwed. 

[Destructo-Bot]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

1.I've played smthn like... wait 100? 200? games with SI, and yet i dont remember anyone, but other SI outscoring me. I mean on gold, on silver, yea, vanguards can outscore SI sometimes, but not on gold

I'll just leave this here... vanguard, soldier, and engineer all outscoring infils on gold. Adepts can as well, I just don't have any screenies for it. The only thing annoying about infils is when you are on a three infiltrator team and you aren't an infiltrator. Every baddie on the map suddenly raining hatred down on your position is a bad day for anyone.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 04 juin 2012 - 09:46 .

[Immortal Strife]

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

Adhok42 wrote...

Jay Leon Hart wrote...

I stand (sit?) corrected. And no, I didn't read it all the way through - that you gave an example of a sub 20 on silver put me off.

Also, if you're barely killing? HEADSHOT is certainly good advice.

That's why I always go for the skulls if I can help it. You nerf the bonus damage and even a Cloaked Headshot won't be able to put them down. Kind of sad for class that prides itself on being heavily sniper based.

You might want to start reading properly, but not the damage bonuses should be nerfed!!!! Can you finally understand that?
And, you can bring down trash with 2 HEADSHOT from mantis on gold, even w/o cloack!!!!
So cloack does not increase your power against minor enemies!!!
Your statement is just INCORRECT

Straight garbage, you can't snipe so you want to bring everyone down to your level. On top of that you likely don't play fair. Your opinion officially means zero to me based on your manifest!

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 04 juin 2012 - 09:58 .

[Aifell_Ellion]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

Aifell_Ellion wrote...

1.I've played smthn like... wait 100? 200? games with SI, and yet i dont remember anyone, but other SI outscoring me. I mean on gold, on silver, yea, vanguards can outscore SI sometimes, but not on gold

I'll just leave this here...

I cant see that he's salarian. I cant see how good he plays. So it's barely a proof.