82 réponses à ce sujet

[Landon7001]

So im just now getting around to my only career where kaidan is still alive in me 3 and i cant believe how many more full scenes and conversations he has than ashley on the normandy. WTF? Ash will never even talk to you and to discover kaidan gets THIS MUCH MORE and better treatement has me RAGING. Any other Ash fans feel my pain and my fury???

[Padt]

They have the same amount of (dialogue wheel) conversations, they're just distributed differently between the Citadel and the Normandy. Not counting the conversations in the hospital, the confrontation during the coup or the conversation where they join the squad, Kaidan has two conversations on the Normandy and one on the Citadel. Ashley has two conversations on the Citadel and one on the Normandy.

What Kaidan has over Ashley is that he interacts with other squad and crew a lot more (e.g., he plays poker with Vega, talks over the intercom with Liara, hangs out with Engineer Adams), and his auto-dialogue also makes more references to things like the other squadmates and the romance with Shepard. Ashley doesn't do...pretty much any of that.

[KingWrex]

Totally agree with OP, I don't get why she doesn't interact with anyone it kinda irritates the hell out of me.

[MegaBadExample]

Padt wrote...

They have the same amount of (dialogue wheel) conversations, they're just distributed differently between the Citadel and the Normandy. Not counting the conversations in the hospital, the confrontation during the coup or the conversation where they join the squad, Kaidan has two conversations on the Normandy and one on the Citadel. Ashley has two conversations on the Citadel and one on the Normandy.

What Kaidan has over Ashley is that he interacts with other squad and crew a lot more (e.g., he plays poker with Vega, talks over the intercom with Liara, hangs out with Engineer Adams), and his auto-dialogue also makes more references to things like the other squadmates and the romance with Shepard. Ashley doesn't do...pretty much any of that.

No, he does have more to say. I certainly noticed the difference. Kaidan has longer and extra scenes than Ashley, that's a fact. Just compare their goodbyes on Earth, or compare any other scene, really. Ashley got the chop. With Kaidan you even get extra dialogue branches. Again, compare their docking bay scenes after the coup (or the romance scene), and you’ll see.

Kaidan also has more lengthy Zaeed style dialogue than Ash as well. Which can be different if you romance him. Ash has none of that. Bioware dropped the ball with that, and a lot of other things...

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 04 juin 2012 - 05:02 .

[Padt]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Padt wrote...

They have the same amount of (dialogue wheel) conversations, they're just distributed differently between the Citadel and the Normandy. Not counting the conversations in the hospital, the confrontation during the coup or the conversation where they join the squad, Kaidan has two conversations on the Normandy and one on the Citadel. Ashley has two conversations on the Citadel and one on the Normandy.

What Kaidan has over Ashley is that he interacts with other squad and crew a lot more (e.g., he plays poker with Vega, talks over the intercom with Liara, hangs out with Engineer Adams), and his auto-dialogue also makes more references to things like the other squadmates and the romance with Shepard. Ashley doesn't do...pretty much any of that.

No, he does have more to say. I certainly noticed the difference. Kaidan has longer and extra scenes than Ashley, that's a fact. Just compare their goodbyes on Earth, or compare any other scene, really. Ashley got the chop. With Kaidan you even get extra dialogue branches. Again, compare their docking bay scenes after the coup and you’ll see.

Kaidan also has more lengthy Zaeed style dialogue than Ash as well. Which can be different if you romance him. Ash has none of that. Bioware dropped the ball with that, and a lot of other things.

If by "more to say" you mean a greater number of conversations where you get to talk to him via dialogue wheel, then no, dude. I'm afraid he does not. I even checked before making that post. He has two conversations on the Normandy, one in which he talks about his biotic students, and one in which he talks about the Illusive Man. And he has one conversation on the Citadel, the one where you can start a romance with him. That's about it.

Ashley has one conversation on the Normandy (the one where she's hungover on the floor), and two on the Citadel (one where she's at the memorial wall, and one on the Presidium where you can start a romance with her). They both also have two conversations in the hospital and one on the Citadel elevator which allows you to recruit them. That's six conversations for each.

Now, like I said, Kaidan IS chattier on the Normandy. That is certainly true. He has more dialogue concerning missions and other squadmates, and he interacts with them more. But as far as dialogue wheel conversations, it's the same number for both, and roughly the same number that most of the other squadmates get.

[Tashash]

So BW can pretend that they actually give a damn about their female fanbase? PS - We ain't buying it!

[Dr. Doctor]

Ash has Zaeed-dialogue lines similar to Kaidan's but they're not in-game for some reason. Either it's a bug or they just didn't bother to code the triggers.

[MegaBadExample]

Padt wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

Padt wrote...

They have the same amount of (dialogue wheel) conversations, they're just distributed differently between the Citadel and the Normandy. Not counting the conversations in the hospital, the confrontation during the coup or the conversation where they join the squad, Kaidan has two conversations on the Normandy and one on the Citadel. Ashley has two conversations on the Citadel and one on the Normandy.

What Kaidan has over Ashley is that he interacts with other squad and crew a lot more (e.g., he plays poker with Vega, talks over the intercom with Liara, hangs out with Engineer Adams), and his auto-dialogue also makes more references to things like the other squadmates and the romance with Shepard. Ashley doesn't do...pretty much any of that.

No, he does have more to say. I certainly noticed the difference. Kaidan has longer and extra scenes than Ashley, that's a fact. Just compare their goodbyes on Earth, or compare any other scene, really. Ashley got the chop. With Kaidan you even get extra dialogue branches. Again, compare their docking bay scenes after the coup and you’ll see.

Kaidan also has more lengthy Zaeed style dialogue than Ash as well. Which can be different if you romance him. Ash has none of that. Bioware dropped the ball with that, and a lot of other things.

If by "more to say" you mean a greater number of conversations where you get to talk to him via dialogue wheel, then no, dude. I'm afraid he does not. I even checked before making that post. He has two conversations on the Normandy, one in which he talks about his biotic students, and one in which he talks about the Illusive Man. And he has one conversation on the Citadel, the one where you can start a romance with him. That's about it.

Ashley has one conversation on the Normandy (the one where she's hungover on the floor), and two on the Citadel (one where she's at the memorial wall, and one on the Presidium where you can start a romance with her). They both also have two conversations in the hospital and one on the Citadel elevator which allows you to recruit them. That's six conversations for each.

Now, like I said, Kaidan IS chattier on the Normandy. That is certainly true. He has more dialogue concerning missions and other squadmates, and he interacts with them more. But as far as dialogue wheel conversations, it's the same number for both, and roughly the same number that most of the other squadmates get.

The scenes Kaidan does have, you almost always get another dialogue branch (like in the docking bay, goodbye, or the romance scene). Ashley doesn't get that, it's always either top or bottom (with the exception of the date scene). Hell, Ashley doesn't even get romance specific Zaeed-style-dialogue like Kaidan, and his goodbye scene is almost twice as long as Ashley's, too (most of them are).

Kaidan has more to say, fact. There is a difference. They might have the same number of conversations, but Kaidan's are longer, and the player is given another dialogue branch to investigate further as well. Like you said, Kaidan is also chattier on the normandy.

Ashley gets drunk > invites you to the memorial > date > romance scene.
Kaidan > biotic students > MIA father/mother > thoughts on TIM > date scene > 'wake me' dialogue. (not sure of the correct order) > romance scene.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 04 juin 2012 - 05:32 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

From two playthroughs with both VS (non-romanced in both cases too) yes, Kaidan has more content. But, not significantly more. Both have too little.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 04 juin 2012 - 05:50 .

[Anacruisis]

actually with Ashley you can access a banter between ken and gabby
while with Kaidan you need to use gibbed to unlock the banter
maybe there is a conversation bug for both VS
or the writer who wrote Ashley kinda messed up with Ash's character

[MegaBadExample]

Anacruisis wrote...

actually with Ashley you can access a banter between ken and gabby
while with Kaidan you need to use gibbed to unlock the banter
maybe there is a conversation bug for both VS
or the writer who wrote Ashley kinda messed up with Ash's character

That's confirmed to be a bug, though. And it doesn't count as 'Ashley's dialogue' since she doesn't even speak.

Maybe there is an Ashley bug which prevents some of her Normandy dialogue - I don't know. But I sure as hell don't count on bioware fixing it if there is.

All Ashley needed was another conversation on the Normandy, really. But Bioware cut all the good stuff she DID have unfortunately.

[alyxor]

Kaidan is also available to be romanced by both dudeshep and chickshep.

In fact, he's one of three men in the game that are actually romance-able in some way since Jacob gives you the finger and Thane dies, as opposed to the seven (well, sevenish - Miranda and Jack's romances are kinda weak, but I still am lumping them in there still) women that are around to be courted in some form or another.

Maybe that has something to do with it. Either way, they were both pretty weak. I was pretty bummed when I played through and Ashley wasn't feisty at all.

[Padt]

MegaBadExample wrote...

The scenes Kaidan does have, you almost always get another dialogue branch (like in the docking bay, goodbye, or the romance scene). Ashley doesn't get that, it's always either top or bottom (with the exception of the date scene). Hell, Ashley doesn't even get romance specific Zaeed-style-dialogue like Kaidan, and his goodbye scene is almost twice as long as Ashley's, too (most of them are).

Kaidan has more to say, fact. There is a difference. They might have the same number of conversations, but Kaidan's are longer, and the player is given another dialogue branch to investigate further as well. Like you said, Kaidan is also chattier on the normandy.

Ashley gets drunk > invites you to the memorial > date > romance scene.
Kaidan > biotic students > MIA father/mother > thoughts on TIM > date scene > 'wake me' dialogue. (not sure of the correct order) > romance scene.

I really, really don't want to seem belligerent over this stuff, but I'm doing a playthrough where I'm romancing Ashley right now, and I finished one where I had Kaidan alive just before this. So a lot of this stuff is pretty fresh in my mind, and I know for a fact that almost all of Ash's conversations have the third dialogue branch to investigate further too. The convo on the docking bay, for example? It has one, which makes Shepard ask Ash why she was protecting the Council while her "bandages were still fresh". The one in the Presidium has one, which makes Shepard ask if she's ever thought about "what life would've been like outside the Alliance". And the one where she's on the Normandy has one, which makes Shepard ask about she was doing the night before.

In fact, from what I recall, the only one of Ash's conversations prior to the love scene that doesn't have a left hand dialogue option or an Investigate option which opens another dialogue tree is the one at the Citadel memorial (that one has a Paragon interrupt instead). Kaidan's docking bay convo also doesn't have one. All those conversations are on YouTube, as well, so it should be easy to corroborate.

Now, I've been saying from the beginning that yes, Kaidan does have more auto-dialogue that refers to the romance (like that "wake me" bit), to other squadmates and so forth. And yeah, it's a shame that Ashley doesn't have that stuff. But generally speaking, the difference between them is not that significant.

[CptData]

Well ...

Kaidan is available for both sexes. Ashley is not.
Kaidan's fandom seems to be much bigger than Ashley's - or Ashley's fans are less active. However, both fandoms are pretty much like "brother and sister" and stick together as the "VS fandom". And whenever the "VS fandom" fought for something, they were supporting each other and seems the support for Kaidan was a tad more.

I'm not sad here. I'm more sad about the fact, Ash got a lot of her original content cut. I'm sad, both VS only had one purpose in ME3: to play a role in Udina's coup. Yeah, that's it. Ash & Kaidan got brought back for that one scene (and the romance).
Sure, you have the Mars mission (the VS's finest moment) and the hospital scenes. But you can ignore the VS in the hospital, if you want, so the Mars mission is the only other event in the entire plot where Kaidan or Ash -do- have some influence on the story.

Once you got your VS back (if you want him/her !), that's it. No more influence on the story. The VS gets ignored, not just Ashley. It's virtually the same for Kaidan, he just got one or two more scenes (like the Poker scene), but that's it. The romance itself is well done, it just lacks some substance. Actually, the romantic climax scene and the farewell scene feel tacked on for me: half of the game the VS doesn't talk to you and then, out of the sudden, s/he appears in Shepard's cabin? Or on Earth, where Ashley / Kaidan has this awesome and heartbreaking moment with Shepard? Yeah, those emotions feel real - too bad, they lack substance if you remember the VS did not interact at all with you.

We talked about this numerous times. Compared to Liara (who also has some "good to see you" moments) or Garrus (does he never stop being bro-awesome?), neither Kaidan or Ashley got a proper treatment. They're just there.

I had hoped for something more. Like:

- the VS is Shepard's XO and found in the CIC
- the VS can move in Shepard's cabin
- the VS has a comfort scene in Shepard's cabin
- loyal Shepard's get an extra scene with the VS
- a scene dealing with the VS past 2 years
- a scene dealing with Ashley's new appearance
- at least a scene right after Udina's Coup when the VS explains why s/he did what s/he did
- crew banter, Garrus-style
- Skipper

What do we get?

- drama (Mars)
- drama (hospital)
- drama (Udina's Coup)
- cut scenes, cut dialogues, cut content (second half of game)
- romantic scene plus sex (romantic climax scene)
- heartwrenching farewell (Earth)

I know, I'm a bit unfair here, since my expectations bar was set -really- high, fueled by the lines of the leaked script. I'd say, nearly a third of Ashley's content got cut in the final release and Kaidan got his cuts too.
The VS is the very display of why ME3 feels unfinished and more like a draft than a full prized game. Everything is there, except what a RPG stands for: interaction with other characters. The VS lacks it.

Modifié par CptData, 04 juin 2012 - 08:17 .

[MegaBadExample]

Every character lacks interaction if their names are not Liara, Garrus or Kaidan.

[CptData]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Every character lacks interaction if their names are not Liara, Garrus or Kaidan Vega.

Fix'd.

It's simply a shame BW led Kimberly to read all those lines we saw in the leaked script - just to scrap them in the release. They're all in the sound files - those lines are just not used in the game. Either they got dummied out on purpose or they got bugged like Ken/Gabby's dialogue.

Let's say I hope BW fix that with the upcoming EC DLC. 

And seriously: do those guys at BW really think we VS-fans are happy with the statement "the VS and Shepard have an unique connection" - when that very connection is not displayed ANYWHERE in the actual game?

Hell, I had hoped for a lot of best friend / comrade moments. Pretty much what Garrus got - just for the VS.
We got nothing in that field.

If there's a special bond between Shepard and the VS, then it exists only in our minds. It's not shown in the game.

[MegaBadExample]

Data WTH? Vega has barely no interaction either. Kaidan has tons in comparison.

And about that connection - they're talking about Virmire. I do feel the connection between the VS and Shepard. Especially when you take them to Eden Prime, and the times when they mention Virmire or each other. Kaidan is a true bud, and Ashley has clearly always looked up to Shepard and admired him/her in a big-way. However, Kaidan does display that bond better than Ashley. Mainly, because he yammers on more about it, and opens up more. On the other hand, Ash likes to keep a lid on things, and she is more soldier-y than Kaidan, IMO.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 04 juin 2012 - 09:07 .

[CptData]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Data WTH? Vega has barely no interaction either. Kaidan has tons in comparison.

Vega interacts a lot with the crew and you have several good moments with him.
All he lacks is a romance. If you add Kaidan's scenes to him, he has a ton more content than both VS together ...

And about that connection - they're talking about Virmire. I do feel the connection between the VS and Shepard. Especially when you take them to Eden Prime, and the times when they mention Virmire or each other. Kaidan is a true bud, and Ashley has clearly always looked up to Shepard and admired him/her in a big-way. However, Kaidan does display that bond better than Ashley. Mainly, because he yammers on more about it, and opens up more. On the other hand, Ash likes to keep a lid on things, and she is more soldier-y than Kaidan, IMO.

The only time when that connection plays a role is when Shepard gives his little speech to Ashley why he admires her that much.

However, I expected to see more of that bond. The huge gaps between any interactions in second half of ME3 virtually destroyed my image of that bond. It's not there. Ashley does not feel right when not talking to Shepard. I'm not talking about "Skipper here, Skipper there" but the lack of feedback in general.

It's pretty much the same with Kaidan, he just got a few more lines so it doesn't feel that prominent. For Ashley on the other hand ... yeah. The cut content and the lack of interactions damaged Ashley badly. And tbh, I can understand every new player NOT romancing her since there's no way you can build up an emotional connection with her. The romantic build up feels too detached from the romantic climax - after all, between "hospital" and "climax scene" you easily can have 20 hours of gameplay ...

[MegaBadExample]

Okay, good point about Vega.

That connection plays apart through the whole game. If Shepard was just any Commander, A/K wouldn't bother with him in the same way. However, he's the guy who saved their life, guided them along, changed them, got them to where they are now. They both ditched the Alliance for him in ME1. But yeah, I would've liked to have seen more in that department. And yeah, I headcanon some stuff because Virmire is such a huge deal - it can't be ignored.

The lack of 'Skipper' is terrible. The writers clearly didn't forget about it they just didn't want to 'over-use' it, so instead they didn't use it at all. Which sucks even more. The romantic relationship isn't the same without that word.

Ashley needed another conversation on the Normandy, and needed to move around. She only moves once! But at the same time, she's obviously friendly with folks, James, Tali, Garrus, Liara ect. We just don't hear her talk.

Kaidan got longer scenes, more dialogue, and better-timed conversations.

[L. Han]

I felt every character kind of lacked eye-to-eye conversations with Shepard.

I was quite satisfied with the amount of dialog sequence with Liara. But other characters felt. Drifted. Sidelined.


I was disappointed by the lack of ME2 characters appearance. I know they have moved on and have their own personal things they have to take care of. But I was hoping that they had more dialogs or atleast some involvement.

[CptData]

The lack of "Skipper" is annoying, true. Guess BW removed it to not irritate new players - after all, Vega calls Shepard "Loco" or "Lola". Sometimes I think BW believes we guys are plain stupid and they simplified everything for a certain fandom (CoD) but that explanation is too easy.

The connection stuff - maybe it's there with Kaidan. It is NOT there for Ashley. Period. They didn't have that bond in ME1 and still Kaidan or Ashley fell for Shepard. In ME3 ... well. I really had hoped to see more of that bond. A dialogue with Ash about Kaidan's sacrifice and vice versa? Yeah, that would have done the trick.

Actually, that's what I missed too: Ash & Shepard (or Kaidan & Shepard) talking about the sacrificed one on Virmire. That scene could have been done in two ways: romantic context, non-romantic context. In the romantic context, the two lovers should realize it was the other one's sacrifice that allowed their love.

What did we get instead? Liara doing the talk. *frustrated*

[MegaBadExample]

I felt that bond between Ashley and Shepard, Data. A close bond? Yes. With everything they've been through since Eden Prime? Hell yes. They've got one hell of a history. Even more so, if they were romantically involved.

Honestly, I think they're probably better off not opening up old wounds in the middle of a war. But yes, Liara should not have gotten that conversation about Kaidan/Virmire when Shepard was vunerable and wanted to discuss it to a point. That should've been Ashley there, outside Shepard's door, not Liara. Instead, Bioware stuck Ashley in the hospital for ages over dumb sh*t. Then when we do get her back, she says jack all.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 04 juin 2012 - 10:02 .

[CptData]

Well, I can headcanon that bond (something you seem to do), but I really don't feel it outside that romantic climax scene and the farewell scene.

In a way, it's also there in the Hospital scenes, but quite weak. I really had hoped for more. As I said, the idea of that bond gets damaged (nearly destroyed) due lack of interaction in second half of the game. If Ash had a similar amount of interactions with Shepard and the crew like Garrus, I'm with you: the bond is there.

However, Ash doesn't have that many lines, Garrus does. Indeed - Garrus feels indeed like that awesome best buddy. He simply matured a lot. Here I can say there IS indeed an amazing connection between him and Shepard, regardless if romanced or not.

In fact, Garrus and Liara have what I had hoped for Ashley's content.

Modifié par CptData, 04 juin 2012 - 10:26 .

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

CptData wrote...

Actually, that's what I missed too: Ash & Shepard (or Kaidan & Shepard) talking about the sacrificed one on Virmire. That scene could have been done in two ways: romantic context, non-romantic context. In the romantic context, the two lovers should realize it was the other one's sacrifice that allowed their love.

What did we get instead? Liara doing the talk. *frustrated*

Well, there's this; it's not with Shepard but it's something.

[CptData]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

CptData wrote...

Actually, that's what I missed too: Ash & Shepard (or Kaidan & Shepard) talking about the sacrificed one on Virmire. That scene could have been done in two ways: romantic context, non-romantic context. In the romantic context, the two lovers should realize it was the other one's sacrifice that allowed their love.

What did we get instead? Liara doing the talk. *frustrated*

Well, there's this; it's not with Shepard but it's something.

Nice find - with one big issue:

It never happened in the game. The dialogue got recorded, but it doesn't happen in ME3. The vid got edited by the creator.

That's one of the examples how much of Ashley's content got cut. She gets along with everyone in the crew and ... everything proving it got cut. Therefore Ash is alone in her room, rarely talks to anyone and feels like "not part of the crew".

Bam.

<_<