200 réponses à ce sujet

[MysticSpace]

I never believed cerberus was good or even a grey area. From the very first moment I saw TIM I didn't trust him. He reminded me of Donald Trump. The first thing I did when I was free to move about the Normandy in ME2 was talk to everyone and I not convinced that anyone on the ship was really Cerberus except Miranda.  Everybody was praising cerberus but when I pressed for details I found everybody execpt Miranda was with Cerberus for only a few months and were only there because they wanted to help Shepard with the suicide mission.  Kelly and Garder stayed with Cerberus and are never seen again unless you romance Kelly.  Otherwise poor naive Kelly was probably one of Nemeses or Phantoms that we killed and gardener was probably a trooper or something.

[GenericEnemy]

Yeah, kind of. They had some noble, albeit a little extreme, goals in ME2. Then in ME3 they became too mainstream.

I agree about TIM though. I supported what he was trying to do in ME2, but I knew I couldn't trust him. ME: Retribution didn't help.

Modifié par GenericEnemy, 04 juin 2012 - 09:22 .

[masseffect420]

Ok, no I always hated Tim!

[MisterJB]

Good and Evil is subjective. The idea of Cerberus and their methods in ME2 differ very little from something like the STG "It's a competitive galaxy. Protect and advance your people, at any costs"
Yes, sometimes it involves unsavory methods but it is just what had to be done to protect humanity in a very hostile galaxy.

In ME3, Bioware just ruined Cerberus.

[Han Shot First]

No.

TIM was set up as an antagonist of sorts even from the start of Mass Effect 2. He is never someone you can fully trust, even if your Shepard shares some of the same goals.

[B3ckett]

Nope. I believed they had their own agenda and Shepard was just a tool to achieve some impossible aims.

[MordicaiBlack]

there was a period in mass effect 2 where i could almost see their point of view, but i never thought of them as good

Modifié par MordicaiBlack, 04 juin 2012 - 09:24 .

[EsterCloat]

No. I actually was fairly certain that TIM stacked the deck, so to speak, with the crew of the Normandy. A bunch of familiar faces and people who supported Shepard, who don't know a thing about what the rest of Cerberus does? Yeah, real accurate representation of Cerberus there. The closest we get to having an actual representative of Cerberus proper is Miranda and if it wasn't for the fact that Shepard can basically remold her into a moral person her Cerberus can-do-no-wrong attitude and rah-rahing would have probably given me enough incentive to get rid of her on the Collector Base.

TIM is Cerberus and he has no qualms against anything if they achieve results. Do something horrible with no point and he'll off you; do something horrible but achieve results and he'll fund the hell out of you.

Hated having to work with them in ME2 but I took his ship, EDI, and blew up his Collector Base so I felt good.

[Austin N]

No. Even though things got darker, Mass Effect was never a morally grey series. TIM was too shady, and they had done too many bad things for me to think it was just a few rogue elements. Then there's the way TIM acts in the paragon ending. "Cerberus IS humanity!" That's not the kind of dialog writers give a character they want use to sympathize with.

[ZIPO396]

For a while there Cerberus went by the old Latin proverb "Exitus acta probat" more or less the end justifies the means. Then at some point they went pretty far off the rails and became truly evil.

[MysticSpace]

MisterJB wrote...

Good and Evil is subjective. The idea of Cerberus and their methods in ME2 differ very little from something like the STG "It's a competitive galaxy. Protect and advance your people, at any costs"
Yes, sometimes it involves unsavory methods but it is just what had to be done to protect humanity in a very hostile galaxy.

In ME3, Bioware just ruined Cerberus.

In some of cases yeah but I kind of wish Bioware actually did have Cerberus morally ambigious it would have been more interesting if TIM was like Trent in the Resident Evil novels but they any type of character depth out the window and said screw that we'll make them into Cobra.

[Jadebaby]

Cerberus as a whole.. No.

The Illusive Man... yes, even if he went about it in a specifically racist manner.

[Cribbian]

Nay

[D1ck1e]

Necessary, maybe. Good, no.

[majormajormmajor]

There were plenty of prohuman (people actually play ME for the humans?) twits out there like that mangina ZuluDFA who genuinely supported Cerberus back in the old days before ME3.

Now they say nothing. Egg on their faces all around

[Jlop985]

I never thought that Cerberus was good. I still remembered those experiments in the first game. Shepard only worked with Cerberus because there was no other option.

[wright1978]

MisterJB wrote...

Good and Evil is subjective. The idea of Cerberus and their methods in ME2 differ very little from something like the STG "It's a competitive galaxy. Protect and advance your people, at any costs"
Yes, sometimes it involves unsavory methods but it is just what had to be done to protect humanity in a very hostile galaxy.

In ME3, Bioware just ruined Cerberus.

ME3 cheesy portryal of Cerberus was poor, especially with the TIM loaded Shep's ME team with Cerberus lite operatives BS. Really miss ME2's grey portrayal where you see there are some good people and some wack jobs, a reasonable organisational objective but evidence that they overstep bounds too often. I miss greyness.

[Jassu1979]

In ME1, they were cheap villains.

In ME2, they became more complex, following a "the end justifies the means"-approach that *almost* gave them anti-hero status.

In ME3, they went back to being cheap villains. (Okay, so they're still trying to save humanity and further mankind's interests, and most of their villainy is the result of indoctrination. But honestly, for most of the game, they're just run-of-the-mill cannon fodder.)

[WolfyZA]

I dont think Cerberus(TIM) is evil, just misunderstood. Much like Saren was, they both had their own motives on what the Reapers promised them (Absolute power)... And they tried everything in their existance to see it become reality. But in the end it was just all in vain just to realize they were indoctrinated, and that was what the Reapers intend all along. 

But I believe in the end they did what they believed would for the beter for humanity(TIM), or the in Saren's case the galaxy.

Modifié par WolfyZA, 04 juin 2012 - 12:19 .

[nos_astra]

Cartoonishly evil villains in ME1.

Manipulating Shepard in ME2.

Back to mostly cartoonishly evil in ME3.

Modifié par klarabella, 04 juin 2012 - 12:16 .

[ComfortablyNumb]

Looking from a Paragon point of view, Cerberus and TIM were never good. Things may get a bit blurry if you look at their action playing Renegade.
But I always believed TIM had some sort of big agenda. There were some things in ME2 that made me extremely suspicious about his intentions:

1. Why use Liara to get Shepard's body? - they should have more than enough resources to do it themselves.
2.Why gave her intel to go after Shadow Broker - why gave up this kind of resource if all it took was three people to get SB down? I never bought it. I was actually waiting for TIM to reveal some kind of scheme but it looks like in both cases it was just a (pretty weak) way to use Liara in ME2.

All in all - I guess the interpreation of TIM/Cerberus actions through all three games depends on what a person can accept as a means to an end. Most of peope will not be able to agree with Cerberus methods. But I'm pretty sure there are also those, who can (or at least some of them).

[vixvicco]

No I didn't. I always felt trapped actually, working for them.

[Ledgend1221]

I liked them in ME2. They had style.

[thesnake777]

TIM is humanities savior. Cerberus are the vanguards of humanity!!

I personally Love cerberus, what annoyed me was being railroaded against them in ME3....also how inconsistent they have been portrayed throughout the trilogy.

[Unschuld]

No.

Anyone who played through ME1 and went through all of the side quests that involved Cerberus would see that they had the same "noble intentions" for humanity as a certain group during the second world war. Experiments in eugenics, bioweapons, torture, and assassinations of high-ranking officials were their modi operandi.

And after all this was learned in the first game, the second game had everyone railroaded into working with them. TIM puts on a sympathetic facade, feeding Shepard lies that his methods are grey and not as bad as they seem. The entire time felt like Shepard was being used as an unwilling pawn to spring traps and solve "problems". Any time TIM's involvement in something was put to question he outright denied it by omission of details, feigning ignorance, or lying through his teeth.

I can't really blame players who started playing Mass Effect with ME2 for thinking Cerberus had "extreme but noble" goals because they didn't have the context to see through the lies. To claim that they were retconned into big evil-bad enemies for ME3 is an incorrect and misinformed assessment. If anything, they would have been retconned from being big-bad unethical douchebags that embody the worst of humanity to morally ambiguous in ME2 (assuming anything TIM told you was true), and then re-retconned back into a big bad for ME3. It's much more logical to assume that they just put on a smiling face for ME2, and kept the dagger hidden behind their back. If anything their actions during ME3, the videos you find on Cronus station, and the fact that TIM came into contact with reaper tech in the First Contact War (beginning his indoctrination) 30 years prior to ME1 prove this.

Sorry, "Cerberus was Right" supporters. You were deceived.