200 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

majormajormmajor wrote...

There were plenty of prohuman (people actually play ME for the humans?) twits out there like that mangina ZuluDFA who genuinely supported Cerberus back in the old days before ME3.

Now they say nothing. Egg on their faces all around

Not even egg on the face. Just nothing to say: Cerberus got a radical, nonsensical redesign. ME2 Cerberus had merit mixed with the bad, and could be justified. ME3 Cerberus is just stupid-evil.

[Lord Goose]

No.

I played trilogy games in succession, so I when I heard Cerberus, I was like: those guys , who feed humans to Thrasher Maw? Turned entire colonies into husks and thorian creepers? Planned to breed Rachni as soldiers and feed them admiral Kahoku?

Although I do believe that their intentions were pro-human, though. Not that it somehow belittles their crimes,

[Dean_the_Young]

Unschuld wrote...

No.

Anyone who played through ME1 and went through all of the side quests that involved Cerberus would see that they had the same "noble intentions" for humanity as a certain group during the second world war. Experiments in eugenics, bioweapons, torture, and assassinations of high-ranking officials were their modi operandi.

...the Americans? The British? The Soviets? Noveria? The Council? The Alliance.

You'll have to narrow that down, since pretty much every major power in modern history, and in the game, has explored such things. (And no, genetics research isn't the same as eugenics.)

[Xellith]

They murdered admiral kahoku among other things.. Never trusted them. Worked with them to get the job done. But never trusted them. Just never realized how deep the rabbit hole went...

[Dean_the_Young]

Lord Goose wrote...

No.

I played trilogy games in succession, so I when I heard Cerberus, I was like: those guys , who feed humans to Thrasher Maw? Turned entire colonies into husks and thorian creepers? Planned to breed Rachni as soldiers and feed them admiral Kahoku?

Since that's not an accurate description of what they did in ME1... no, not those guys.

[comrade gando]

at first in ME2 I thought they were like pro-human anti heroes but I guess they turned into cardboard cutout villains in 3.

[thesnake777]

@unschuld
I remember their experiments from ME1, however what anyone considerers good or evil is a matter of perspective. Do I consider the experiments that Cerberus does to be "good"? No. However I view them as necessary and understand what they are doing. Noble Ideas are wonderful in concept, but to achieve those goals you have to get your hands dirty. I'm one of those "Cerberus was right supporters" who fully understands the implications of what was going on, and believes that the end justifies the means.

[Xellith]

thesnake777 wrote...

@unschuld
I remember their experiments from ME1, however what anyone considerers good or evil is a matter of perspective. Do I consider the experiments that Cerberus does to be "good"? No. However I view them as necessary and understand what they are doing. Noble Ideas are wonderful in concept, but to achieve those goals you have to get your hands dirty. I'm one of those "Cerberus was right supporters" who fully understands the implications of what was going on, and believes that the end justifies the means.

And people like you are one of the main reasons why I think that ME3 was a wasted opportunity to have branching story based on your choices.  Mass Effect could have been something amazingly epic ; ;

[dublin omega 223]

MisterJB wrote...

Good and Evil is subjective. The idea of Cerberus and their methods in ME2 differ very little from something like the STG "It's a competitive galaxy. Protect and advance your people, at any costs"
Yes, sometimes it involves unsavory methods but it is just what had to be done to protect humanity in a very hostile galaxy.

In ME3, Bioware just ruined Cerberus.

I agree with you 100% on that.

I always saw Cerberus has humanity's answer to the STGs and ME's version of Section 31 from ST.

[ForgottenWarrior]

I believed, yes. And i was hoping that in ME3 there will be an option to join Cerberus.

[Unschuld]

Dean_the_Young wrote..
...the Americans? The British? The Soviets? Noveria? The Council? The Alliance.

You'll have to narrow that down, since pretty much every major power in modern history, and in the game, has explored such things. (And no, genetics research isn't the same as eugenics.)

Oh Dean... don't play coy. Though the Soviets are probably closest in that list.

[dublin omega 223]

ForgottenWarrior wrote...

I believed, yes. And i was hoping that in ME3 there will be an option to join Cerberus.

I was as well hoping  that you join Cerberus in ME3 or at the very least just make another alliance with them against the Reapers.

Modifié par dublin omega 223, 04 juin 2012 - 12:53 .

[Jamie9]

In ME1, they were clearly the bad guys.

In ME2, I was convinced by TIM that Cerberus were a necessary evil, that they did do some genuinely good acts, and that without them, the Reapers would attack the galaxy and no-one would be there to stop them. I met Miranda, Jacob and Kelly Chambers, all of which I came to know as my friends.

In ME3, I realised that TIM was lying to me the whole time. Using me to further his own goals. And he was indoctrinated. Cerberus needed to be stopped. In some ways, they were more dangerous and unpredictable than the Reapers themselves.

Btw, when do we think TIM became indoctrinated? Disregard the origin comic, because I don't think the games themselves really treat those as canon. Was it supposed to be prior to ME2 or in-between ME2 and ME3?

[Descy_]

Anyone who's played ME1 cannot say they think Cerberus was good.

[malakim2099]

MisterJB wrote...

Good and Evil is subjective. The idea of Cerberus and their methods in ME2 differ very little from something like the STG "It's a competitive galaxy. Protect and advance your people, at any costs"
Yes, sometimes it involves unsavory methods but it is just what had to be done to protect humanity in a very hostile galaxy.

In ME3, Bioware just ruined Cerberus.

Yup, because people that feed Alliance Marines to thresher maws and execute generals looking into them definitely have the most altruistic goals in mind!

(That happened in the FIRST game, by the way. Really, Cerberus has always been scum, it's just they painted a "nice" face on them so you'd have to work with them in ME2.)

EDIT: And actually, another missed opportunity from ME3. Toombs. Unless I somehow blanked out on it, I didn't see him there.

Modifié par malakim2099, 04 juin 2012 - 01:11 .

[lolerk53]

Before I played ME1 and was new to the ME franchise and didn't go very deep into it, when I played ME2 I trusted him, but I had my pistol loaded just in case...
Then I played ME1 and hated the very core of this man.

[dublin omega 223]

Jamie9 wrote...

In ME1, they were clearly the bad guys.

In ME2, I was convinced by TIM that Cerberus were a necessary evil, that they did do some genuinely good acts, and that without them, the Reapers would attack the galaxy and no-one would be there to stop them. I met Miranda, Jacob and Kelly Chambers, all of which I came to know as my friends.

In ME3, I realised that TIM was lying to me the whole time. Using me to further his own goals. And he was indoctrinated. Cerberus needed to be stopped. In some ways, they were more dangerous and unpredictable than the Reapers themselves.

Btw, when do we think TIM became indoctrinated? Disregard the origin comic, because I don't think the games themselves really treat those as canon. Was it supposed to be prior to ME2 or in-between ME2 and ME3?

I'd say TIM was indoctrinated during ME3 shortly before the Sanctuary mission.

[Evenjelith]

Kinda.

I just assumed they'd ret-conned them from ME1 to take on a more fleshed out role in ME2. I worked with people like Miranda and Jacob and I could get behind what they were fighting for.

ME: Retribution felt really jarring to me after playing ME2; but ME3 completely destroyed any illusions I had about the organisation. Plus the fact that all the sane people I knew from Cerberus jumped ship made it pretty clear Cerberus of ME2 was long dead.

[HellbirdIV]

Nope. I still remembered Mass Effect 1 so I didn't buy it for a second during ME2. Especially not with Miranda spouting pro-Cerberus propoganda every chance she got, it sounded to me like she was trying to convince herself of the lie.

[Ieldra]

Good? No. But two-sided enough that I could appreciate the idea of the organization, if not their more extreme methods. Two-sided enough that I thought they might be salvageable in the end and turned into "humanity's STG". Miranda was a character who represented its better side without losing the pragmatism needed for such an organizaiton to work. I would've liked to reform Cerberus in her image.

Then came ME3. Disappointing, though you could see it coming.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 juin 2012 - 01:20 .

[Slayer299]

You mean "Good Good"? No, they did way too many things that weren't just questionable but outright wrong and TIM was always just out for himself. Now, if they had started ME with Cerberus having more questionable methods for their goals outside of just plain wrong, but it was pretty clear from the get-go that they were definitely black hats.
Besides, if you ever saw the video of what they did to Jack in ME3 you'd never believe Cerberus was 'good'...ever.

[Pottumuusi]

No. People usually get labeled as terrorists for a reason.

[malakim2099]

HellbirdIV wrote...

Nope. I still remembered Mass Effect 1 so I didn't buy it for a second during ME2. Especially not with Miranda spouting pro-Cerberus propoganda every chance she got, it sounded to me like she was trying to convince herself of the lie.

Good point, and that's exactly how it came across to me, too.

Cerberus works for humanity's benefit Shepard. Really! I MEAN IT! NOT READING ABOUT AKUZE AT ALL NO NO NO!

[Kenjison7]

I didn't believe he was GOOD, I was pro-cerberus up until the end of ME3

[katamuro]

Nope never believed them as far as I could throw a krogan in full battle armour.