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Did you ever believe that Cerberus was good?


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200 réponses à ce sujet

#101
Jamie9

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N7Gold wrote...

I didn't trust them because of my encounter against them in ME1, but I knew that just because they employ renegade methods, that doesn't mean they are evil. The same can be said for a renegade Shepard. However, I couldn't shake this feeling that they have top secret agendas that they keep secret from everyone, even Shepard, except their most loyal agents, which reinforced my distrust in them, especially when that asari Spectre in the Shadow Broker DLC told Shepard that Cerberus has killed admirals who questioned Cerberus' character. I didn't care much about their methods, I was more concerned if their morally gray beliefs are being used like a mask to hide their true selves.


That happened in ME1. :innocent:

#102
His Name was HYR!!

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 Cerberus had noble intentions but ******-poor management and corrupt methods, and which point all noble intentions don't mean jack****. They were a joke even when ME2 tried to portray them as "grey," ME3 is just the nail in the coffin. Good riddance, I say. Let them die off.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 04 juin 2012 - 05:30 .


#103
dawtree

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TIM made me trust him in 2, and by association, I began to trust parts of Cerberus as a whole (he stated those in 1 were extremists loosely associated with Cerberus as a whole, so I wrote them off.)

Turns out it was all just manipulation and TIM's true colors showed at the end of 2. I feel that Cerberus could have been handled better in 3 with the downfall of TIM and such, but it got the point across.

#104
GreyLycanTrope

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No I didn't. They had one good idea in trying to look out for human interests, but the moment Cerberus tried experimenting on your own people and killing Admirals, you know something is rotten in state of Denmark. Not to mention that their methods alienated the other races and helped fuel the skepticism they already had towards humanity to begin with.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 04 juin 2012 - 05:37 .


#105
Graceyn

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Never. If you do the side missions in ME1 it's virtually impossible to believe that they were good, or even misguided, or even using extreme methods in pursuit of a noble goal.

Which is why one thing that really bugs me in ME3 is that at several points you are forced into saying that TIM was once kind of okay. Whenever that happens I am yelling at the screen, "No, my Shepard never, ever thought that, dammit!"

#106
thesnake777

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Graceyn wrote...
Which is why one thing that really bugs me in ME3 is that at several points you are forced into saying that TIM was once kind of okay. Whenever that happens I am yelling at the screen, "No, my Shepard never, ever thought that, dammit!"


This bothered me the most about talking with TIM in ME3..we were all railroaded into a certian line of thinking with them. You wanted to tell him that he was scum..I wanted to tell him that I stand with Cerberus...

#107
Sisterofshane

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Graceyn wrote...

Never. If you do the side missions in ME1 it's virtually impossible to believe that they were good, or even misguided, or even using extreme methods in pursuit of a noble goal.

Which is why one thing that really bugs me in ME3 is that at several points you are forced into saying that TIM was once kind of okay. Whenever that happens I am yelling at the screen, "No, my Shepard never, ever thought that, dammit!"


I don't know if I believe this - I think TIM always had "nobler" intentions as it pertained to humanity, and the organization probably had good people in it (and not just on the Normandy for the purposes of placating Shepard) - but whenever you create a species-centric organization, it is always liable to attract the wrong sort of people, as does the kind of money that TIM can move around to the cells.

In ME1 they were definitely portrayed as the darker version of the Alliance, and it would have suited the writers better to take what they were doing and associate them with positive outcomes (for example, the experiments with the thorian creepers could have produced data that was helpful to the the surviving colonists of Zhu's Hope).  In ME2 we see part of the organization is made of good people, hard working people with families who want to make a difference.  They don't mistreat the aliens on board - they in fact respect them.  Most importantly, every under-handed thing that TIM does pays off.

In ME3, however, they are reduced to mustache-twirling victims - all we are missing is the fair maiden tied to the railroad tracks.  Anybody with half-a brain left the organization, and are being hunted down for it.  Everyone left gets reduced to a "mindless" husk, just there to do TIM's bidding. TIM ends up falling prey to the Reaper's mind-altering powers, as well.  They took characters that they had spent an entire third of the franchise painting as morally grey, and then either pushed them to black or white.

#108
Oldbones2

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MysticSpace wrote...

I never believed cerberus was good or even a grey area. From the very first moment I saw TIM I didn't trust him. He reminded me of Donald Trump. The first thing I did when I was free to move about the Normandy in ME2 was talk to everyone and I not convinced that anyone on the ship was really Cerberus except Miranda.  Everybody was praising cerberus but when I pressed for details I found everybody execpt Miranda was with Cerberus for only a few months and were only there because they wanted to help Shepard with the suicide mission.  Kelly and Garder stayed with Cerberus and are never seen again unless you romance Kelly.  Otherwise poor naive Kelly was probably one of Nemeses or Phantoms that we killed and gardener was probably a trooper or something.:(


No.  But I don't believe in 'good' or 'evil' anyway.  Life is subjective.  Everyone is the hero in their own story.  Even the Reapers think what they are doing is 'good'.

But I digress.


I never trusted Cerberus, never liked their methods or their goals, but I respected the fact that they had a purpose.  And truthfully, humanity probably needs an advocate like Cerberus.  Just look at what the Salarians are doing, covert uplifts of dangerous races... or the Asari, hording Prothean tech... and everyone knows that if they could, the Turians would probably try to take over the galaxy and make everyone a client race. 

Humanity needs a knife in the dark.  A group, who is willing and able to do the things that most of us won't.  They're not hero's, they're not good, but they are necessary, and there is something worthy in that.

#109
Bill Casey

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I was waiting for Cerberus to turn on me...

#110
thesnake777

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Oldbones2 wrote...

No.  But I don't believe in 'good' or 'evil' anyway.  Life is subjective.  Everyone is the hero in their own story.  Even the Reapers think what they are doing is 'good'.

But I digress.


I never trusted Cerberus, never liked their methods or their goals, but I respected the fact that they had a purpose.  And truthfully, humanity probably needs an advocate like Cerberus.  Just look at what the Salarians are doing, covert uplifts of dangerous races... or the Asari, hording Prothean tech... and everyone knows that if they could, the Turians would probably try to take over the galaxy and make everyone a client race. 

Humanity needs a knife in the dark.  A group, who is willing and able to do the things that most of us won't.  They're not hero's, they're not good, but they are necessary, and there is something worthy in that.


Cerberus will only be hero if they win...thats the real truth about it. TIM never pretends to be hero..he is the man that is making the hard desicions for humanities future. 

#111
shodiswe

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They were never good, but they did us a favor by bringing Shepard back and giving us the normandy... allthough TIM had plans to take all that back once shepard had completed the mission.
The onyl reason shepard and the normandy and the rest of the crew ever stood a chance and survived was because EDI rebelled against TIM. Otherwise EDI would have shut down the innertial dampeners crushed everyone onboard and shut down while waiting for a Cerberus recovery team.

#112
shodiswe

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A human group looking out for human interests is ok but their methods were wrong... most of it I suspect is because TIM got indoctrinated early on...

#113
Taboo

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The hard decisions for humanities future.

Who died and made him the king of everyone?

The amount of hubris he holds is sky high. He's nothing more than a extremist leader who uses brutal methods to further HIS idea of what humanity should be.

#114
thesnake777

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Taboo-XX wrote...

The hard decisions for humanities future.

Who died and made him the king of everyone?

The amount of hubris he holds is sky high. He's nothing more than a extremist leader who uses brutal methods to further HIS idea of what humanity should be.


I dont see any body else standing up to protect humanity and make sure that humans are not taken advantage of by the other groups..do you?

#115
legion999

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No. But I believed that they weren't completely evil either. ME3 changed that in a bad way.

#116
Taboo

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thesnake777 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The hard decisions for humanities future.

Who died and made him the king of everyone?

The amount of hubris he holds is sky high. He's nothing more than a extremist leader who uses brutal methods to further HIS idea of what humanity should be.


I dont see any body else standing up to protect humanity and make sure that humans are not taken advantage of by the other groups..do you?


That doesn't make it right. That's the issue. He is not the human equivalent of the Lorax.

He does not speak for me.

#117
L. Han

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Not much to say, Jack was indoctrinated a long time ago.

#118
GreyLycanTrope

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thesnake777 wrote...

I dont see any body else standing up to protect humanity and make sure that humans are not taken advantage of by the other groups..do you?

Right, it's not like humanity has Shepard, or Anderson, or the Alliance or anything.

#119
thesnake777

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Taboo-XX wrote...

thesnake777 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The hard decisions for humanities future.

Who died and made him the king of everyone?

The amount of hubris he holds is sky high. He's nothing more than a extremist leader who uses brutal methods to further HIS idea of what humanity should be.


I dont see any body else standing up to protect humanity and make sure that humans are not taken advantage of by the other groups..do you?


That doesn't make it right. That's the issue. He is not the human equivalent of the Lorax.

He does not speak for me.

Just becuase you dont think its morally right doesnt mean it is not nesescary.

#120
thesnake777

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Greylycantrope wrote...

thesnake777 wrote...

I dont see any body else standing up to protect humanity and make sure that humans are not taken advantage of by the other groups..do you?

Right, it's not like humanity has Shepard, or Anderson, or the Alliance or anything.

The alliance was so bogged down in politics they were apeaseing the other races. They dident lift a finger to help the colonies in ME2 that were being grabbed by Collectors..or the attacks by the batarians...they did the bear minimum..anderson could not cut it..he steps down becuase he can handle the pressures of office. as for Shep...useing him as evidence doesnt really work becuase it depends on what kind of shep yours is. Mine could be completly different.

#121
SuperVulcan

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No and I hated that I couldn't quit until after the Suicide Mission.

#122
Taboo

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Batman is necessary.

The Illusive Man is not.

#123
dreamgazer

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Bill Casey wrote...

I was waiting for Cerberus to turn on me...


I think that's one of the fine balances ME2 strikes: I couldn't figure out if I was waiting for them to turn on me or not.  I was always suspicious, but never to a point where I was accusatory. And every time I thought I'd be getting to a point where I felt one way or the other, The Illusive Man posited a chunk of dialogue that complicated the viewpoint.

Aaaaand now I want to go play ME2 again. :whistle:

Modifié par dreamgazer, 04 juin 2012 - 08:56 .


#124
GreyLycanTrope

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thesnake777 wrote...

The alliance was so bogged down in politics they were apeaseing the other races. They dident lift a finger to help the colonies in ME2 that were being grabbed by Collectors..or the attacks by the batarians...they did the bear minimum..anderson could not cut it..he steps down becuase he can handle the pressures of office. as for Shep...useing him as evidence doesnt really work becuase it depends on what kind of shep yours is. Mine could be completly different.


As far as Shepard goes all I'm saying is that the possiblity for an alternative champion of humanity does exist.

The Alliance tries to finds compremises that work for everyone they don't always appease, let me remind you that batarian attacks are a result of the Council siding with the Alliance over colony rights instead of the batarians, Cerberus was not need. Anderson only stepped down because the Reapers were coming and as a military man went where the thought he'd be more useful. And it was Anderson that get's Shepards Spectre status reinstated so don't say he couldn't cut it. Humanity also gained a council seat and embassy faster then any other species all without Cerberus help.

ME2 colonies didn't want alliance interference that's why they were set up in the Terminus Systems to begin with.

#125
dublin omega 223

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I thought that overall in the ME series before ME3 Cerberus was a necessary evil as its a fact, sometimes the hard choices have be made, sacrifice a thousand lives one day to save a million the next day.

Sadly in ME3 there were made into enemies no matter what you did.

Besides the Council species were no better, especially the Asari and Salarians.