200 réponses à ce sujet

[thesnake777]

Quackjack wrote...

Just thought of a funny analogy

If the Council races were humanitys bully then the alliance was the kid who takes it, and cerberus not only stands up against the bully but stabs him in the face, takes his wallet and bangs his mother.

hahahaha. That was good.

[MysticSpace]

lolerk53 wrote...

Before I played ME1 and was new to the ME franchise and didn't go very deep into it, when I played ME2 I trusted him, but I had my pistol loaded just in case...
Then I played ME1 and hated the very core of this man.

And the worst thing is that PS3 owners got completely screwed by not being able to get ME1.  ME1 treats Cerberus missions as side missions and aren't mentioned in the Genesis comic.

[MysticSpace]

MisterJB wrote...

The Council has a secret police with a mandate to do ANYTHING; so long as they don't get caught, of course; to keep turians, salarians and asari in power but no one says anything against the Spectres.
But Cerberus kills an Admiral to protect a project that could save thousands of our soldier's lives and suddenly they are monsters!

How was leaving a beacon near a thresher maw's nest to lure rescuers to their doom and then capturing the only survivor and injecting him with thresher maw venom going to save thousands of lives?

[doodiebody]

I played super paragon shep, so I never really trusted them. I trusted Jacob and sort of Miranda, but definitely not TIM.

[MysticSpace]

shodiswe wrote...

A human group looking out for human interests is ok but their methods were wrong... most of it I suspect is because TIM got indoctrinated early on...

Supposely 30 prior to mass effect.  I think it was in a comic, it might have been the one where Saren had to kill his brother but I could be wrong.

[Oldbones2]

thesnake777 wrote...

Oldbones2 wrote...

No.  But I don't believe in 'good' or 'evil' anyway.  Life is subjective.  Everyone is the hero in their own story.  Even the Reapers think what they are doing is 'good'.

But I digress.


I never trusted Cerberus, never liked their methods or their goals, but I respected the fact that they had a purpose.  And truthfully, humanity probably needs an advocate like Cerberus.  Just look at what the Salarians are doing, covert uplifts of dangerous races... or the Asari, hording Prothean tech... and everyone knows that if they could, the Turians would probably try to take over the galaxy and make everyone a client race. 

Humanity needs a knife in the dark.  A group, who is willing and able to do the things that most of us won't.  They're not hero's, they're not good, but they are necessary, and there is something worthy in that.

Cerberus will only be hero if they win...thats the real truth about it. TIM never pretends to be hero..he is the man that is making the hard desicions for humanities future. 

But thats it, he can't win.

His battle is never ending.

Even when the things he does are made public, he is reviled for them (for good reason).

But there is no question that some of them advanced humanity.  Biotics for example.



And Taboo, you can't run a soveign entity, or protect it AND apply a personal morality.  You have to look past what is right and wrong, to what is best for the country and its people, now and in the future.

[xMellowhype]

 TIM no, some members yes.

[Oldbones2]

Taboo-XX wrote...

thesnake777 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The hard decisions for humanities future.

Who died and made him the king of everyone?

The amount of hubris he holds is sky high. He's nothing more than a extremist leader who uses brutal methods to further HIS idea of what humanity should be.

I dont see any body else standing up to protect humanity and make sure that humans are not taken advantage of by the other groups..do you?

That doesn't make it right. That's the issue. He is not the human equivalent of the Lorax.

He does not speak for me.

And if you lived in the Mass Effect universe.  You would owe that freedom you have.  The freedom to reject him and his methods to the very man you despise.

[Taboo]

Yeah, uh, ethics, ALWAYS matter.

[Mr.House]

lolno. Was not surprised at all what happen to Cerberus in ME3.

[Dendio1]

If me2 taught us anything its that just because the leader is corrupt, the people under him may not be. The cerberus crew often are only doing their jobs, not plotting against non-humans everywhere.Look at ken, gabby and kelly. Ordinary people, doing their jobs under the wrong banner. They are ignorant, not evil.

Modifié par Dendio1, 05 juin 2012 - 03:22 .

[DPSSOC]

MysticSpace wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The Council has a secret police with a mandate to do ANYTHING; so long as they don't get caught, of course; to keep turians, salarians and asari in power but no one says anything against the Spectres.
But Cerberus kills an Admiral to protect a project that could save thousands of our soldier's lives and suddenly they are monsters!

How was leaving a beacon near a thresher maw's nest to lure rescuers to their doom and then capturing the only survivor and injecting him with thresher maw venom going to save thousands of lives?

Observing how the marines fair against the Maws allows for the development of new weapons, defenses, and tactics - lives saved.  The experiments on Toombs allow for better medical treatments of Maw wounds as well as potential bioweapons - lives saved.  One thing I think people forget about ME1 and Cerberus' actions in general is that the human race is playing 2,000 years of catch up, and the aliens aren't sharing.  The learning curve we need to maintain to stay competitive is pretty much straight up so yes a few brutal short cuts need to be taken.

I never made the mistake of thinking Cerberus was good, but they are necessary in a galaxy where any race not in charge is either a lapdog begging for scraps or on the slow road to extinction.

[Freckle Face]

Awesome topic

No, I never trusted Cerberus. I always assumed there was an ulterior motive for finding the Collectors, and still do (obvs). I took every chance I could to stick it to The (illusive) Man. Even my renegade Sheps didn't like working for him. How could you do what he said and not feel like he's manipulating you? He always gave me a puppeteer vibe.

[malakim2099]

thesnake777 wrote...

@ malakim2099

I like that one..theres another with a sole survivor shep somewhere which is funny too.

You know, I wish someone could get that comic to Martin Sheen and Mark Meer. It'd be so awesome for them to actually do the voices for it. Anyway...



Courtesy of higheternity@deviantart

Modifié par malakim2099, 05 juin 2012 - 04:02 .

[aMytallica]

MisterJB wrote...

The Council has a secret police with a mandate to do ANYTHING; so long as they don't get caught, of course; to keep turians, salarians and asari in power but no one says anything against the Spectres.
But Cerberus kills an Admiral to protect a project that could save thousands of our soldier's lives and suddenly they are monsters!

That's completely ignoring the many other horrible things Cerberus have done. And Spectres aren't licensed to do anything they want. They are held accountable for their actions. Look at both Saren and Shepard. Saren was booted from the Spectres after being linked to Eden Prime, and Shepards actions are repeatedly questioned by the countil. Not to mention the repercussions Shepard faces after the events of Arrival.

Cerberus on the other hand does whatever it wants and answers to nobody. TIM may have been the one helping Shepard with the Collectors, but I don't believe any of his actions can be considered noble. TIM has his own agenda, which is made abundantly clear in ME3.

Modifié par aMytallica, 05 juin 2012 - 04:45 .

[MakeMineMako]

Good? No.

The ends justify the means/questionable ethics/methods of questionable morality to achieve a greater goal for humanity? A big yes.

In Mass Effect 3, they went from a 'Humanity First' group with commendable long term goals/aims to Snidely Whiplash evil mooks and generic space n@zis.

[Lt Cmdr Char]

The moment I found out that TIM founded Cerberus shortly after his adventures being in direct contact with a Reaper artifact I knew the organization wouldn't go over well in the end no matter what.

[sonicphoto]

They were not good, but had reasons to support their actions in ME2. And it had good people working for them like Jacob. But in the 3rd game they lose control, and humans themselves stop supporting them, thats why they created this control to the soldiers. And I also think that deep inside The Ilusive Man had some positive thoughts on his mind. And I think he is a really good character in terms of how he was developed in the second game. The 3rd well was going good then ending happened and you know the rest.

[The RPGenius]

Well, I'm not a short-sighted bigot, so, no, not really.

[Dean_the_Young]

Pottumuusi wrote...

No. People usually get labeled as terrorists for a reason.

In ME1 they never were, and ME2 they were called so erroniously. While Cerberus had done a number of criminal acts, it really didn't qualify as a terrorist group because it never did so in a public manner. It lacked the public, political orientation of classic terrorism.

Even in ME3 it really doesn't qualify, because at that point Cerberus is an outright military group.

[Dean_the_Young]

MisterJB wrote...

Volc19 wrote...
However, Cerberus in ME3 is just pants-on-head stupid. Why would they spend ME2 telling us that Cerberus is just misunderstood, just to turn them into Saturday-morning cartoon villains?

While I absolutely prefer ME2 Cerberus, I have mixed feelings regarding Cerberus in ME3.
Yes, there are incredibly ridiculous portions where they become the Galactic Empire like occupying Eden Prime but then there are other portions like Sanctuary that are horrifying, play with very serious themes and, honestly, I can see ME2 TIM doing it since the stakes are so high.

Nah, Sanctuary was inept. A publicly-advertised refuge that anyone with a shuttle can fly to, with a big giant tower, that is supposed to be hiding from the Reapers.

ME2-TIM would have publicly set up Sanctuary as a Cerberus-organized refuge for refugees, to various hidden worlds that the Alliance/Council had never tracked down. Sanctuaries would be well-hidden, carefully concealed vaults: built underground, and difficult for even the Reapers to scan from orbit.  Project Sanctuary would be a public secret: something everyone knows about, but the location of which is a total secret. People go to Horizon as the way-point to getting to the other stations, sort of a 'load up in this transport and we'll take you where you want to go.' To add to it, Cerberus-controlled communications would be allowed, so that people outside of the Sanctuaries get proof that others are alive and well.

The reseach lab would have been just one of many legitimate Sanctuaries. Say that if there are Sancuaries 1 through 10, then the research lab would be Sanctuary 0, the 'unofficial' Sanctuary. Every once in a while it sends a shuttle to Horizon, takes a load of refugees that would otherwise go somewhere safe and sound, and they disappear.


Sanctuary thus operates not only as a half-way decent secret operation in not being in publicly advertised locations, while Cerberus can reap a public relations windfall from Protecting Humanity.

[Dean_the_Young]

The RPGenius wrote...

Well, I'm not a short-sighted bigot, so, no, not really.

Apparently you're just the first. You don't need to be a bigot to be a nationalist.

[Dean_the_Young]

aMytallica wrote...


That's completely ignoring the many other horrible things Cerberus have done. And Spectres aren't licensed to do anything they want. They are held accountable for their actions. Look at both Saren and Shepard. Saren was booted from the Spectres after being linked to Eden Prime, and Shepards actions are repeatedly questioned by the countil. Not to mention the repercussions Shepard faces after the events of Arrival.

Spectres are only limited by the political inconvenience they provide the Council. Saren couldn't kill off Anderson because of the Alliance's reaction if Anderson 'accidentally' died, but Shepard can blow up an entire relay and get away with it. The Council never even tried Shepard: Shepard's legal troubles were entirely from the Alliance. There are no legal limits on the Spectres: murder isn't simply tolerated, it is sometimes a part of the job.

Cerberus on the other hand does whatever it wants and answers to nobody. TIM may have been the one helping Shepard with the Collectors, but I don't believe any of his actions can be considered noble. TIM has his own agenda, which is made abundantly clear in ME3.

Cerberus answers to TIM, and TIM has the same sort of limitations as the Council: political costs.