180 réponses à ce sujet

[Arlionis]

For a character that was shoved down our throats in all the Mass Effect games it's frustrating to see how not only her progression (if there's any) is almost non-existent but also so and erratic in nature. 

In the first game she's a talking codex entry, nothing else. In the second game she was inserted as the "virginal romance option" for male Shepard (which, to be honest, is as creepy as it gets because the whole thing just feels like a reenactment of a middle aged high-school professor taking advantage of some confused, dumb student) and the "development" attempt with her was to shown she was a Geth hating racist even after meeting Legion and finding out not all Geth were the same and, oh, and her whole "daddy issues" complex. 

Now my beef is with ME3. I mean, considering that she talked to Legion like you have, considering  she knows the motivations of the Geth like you do, considering that all the Quarians know exactly what happened during the Morning War, etc. her prejudice against the Geth "you cannot choose the Geth over my people" (as if the Quarians were in some capacity innately superior to the Geth) is just 100% indefensible.

Now, you can say: "but her racism makes her flawed,  and that adds deep to her!" that would be true if that racism/xenophobia were consistent, if during the first part of ME3 she hadn't shown signs of "befriending" Legion or gaining a "new understanding" of the Geth. The emotional and personality "flip-flopping" and that constant and unpredictable shifting of positions show how poorly constructed as a character she is. One example of this would be her voting stance regarding going to war against the Geth in ME3, she votes in favour or against it depending what you said to the admirals during her ME2 loyalty mission, zero personality of her own. 

In short, it's a shame that so many development resources were wasted in such a bland character when Miranda, Jack, Samara, and well, any of ME2 cast, would have been more interesting for ME3 as a squad member. 

Modifié par Arlionis, 04 juin 2012 - 12:56 .

[Babi_Siha]

Couldn't agree more with you. Tali is hands down the most annoying charater in the trilogy and yet for some reason she has lot of fans. As a character she has no depth.

I wish she wasn't a squaddie in ME3, having her in the previous two games wasn't enough already?

[Terrorize69]

Haters gona hate.

[Arlionis]

Terrorize69 wrote...

Haters gona hate.

Not hate, just frustration seeing so many resources getting wasted. 

[ryder500]

You mad that miranda was harldy in me3 babi? lel

[Olueq]

wats really funny is that miranda is barely in ME3 despite her blowup doll ass being shoved in our faces ever cut scene in ME2. Liara is simply the devs pet. Funny^_^ though how shes barely in ME2.

Modifié par Olueq, 04 juin 2012 - 01:01 .

[ryder500]

obvious nerd flame bate is obvious

[ichi9181]

ryder their just mad because tali is awesome

[ryder500]

Olueq wrote...

wats really funny is that miranda is barely in ME3 despite her blowup doll ass being shoved in our faces ever cut scene in ME2.

Funny too that liara force down your throat just as much? It is funny to see her depserate to get shepard with you at start of me3 when you romance her in first game and tali in me2. I enjoy to turn her down 

[Karrie788]

*shrugs* That's your opinion. I don't think *Tali* is a bad example of how a character can be badly written, although I agree that her shift from ME1 to ME2 was a bit odd (and why she gained so much popularity, along with Garrus, in ME1, remains a mystery to me - and I love them both!). Her grudge against the Geth evolved quite well, I think. She hated them and was downright racist towards them in ME1 and most of ME2, but she slowly changes in ME3, and probably during the six months you were apart. The turning point for me was solving her conflict with Legion in ME2.

In short, I understand that it is frustrating that some characters are favored at the expense of others (because let's face it, they are), but IMHO, Tali was not as badly written as you make her out to be.

But hey, personal opinions and all. =)

[Aurora313]

Tali and Liara both fall into the catagory for me, but Tali is more bearable than Liara. At least Tali doesn't constantly try to get in my Shep's pants when he's already taken.

[lillitheris]

Arlionis wrote...

Now my beef is with ME3. I mean, considering that she talked to Legion like you have, considering  she knows the motivations of the Geth like you do, considering that all the Quarians know exactly what happened during the Morning War, etc. her prejudice against the Geth "you cannot choose the Geth over my people" (as if the Quarians were in some capacity innately superior to the Geth) is just 100% indefensible.

Weird, my Tali was totally on Legion’s side and I got to save both the geth and the quarians. It’s like you made some choices that made Tali different in your game…but that’s unpossible?!

[Olueq]

Arlionis wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Haters gona hate.

Not hate, just frustration seeing so many resources getting wasted. 

wait..... are you talking about Liara? ahahah

[Edolix]

Sigh. You had to create another thread?

We get it, you dislike Tali. Whether or not she is "wasted resources" or not is subject to opinion though. You're throwing all these allegations around as if they are facts. Which they're not.

In my opinion, Tali is one of the best written characters in Mass Effect along with Mordin (both written by Weekes, what a surprise). Problem?

[Aurora313]

My own issue is Tali gets development, yes. But we don't see it. It's done over the time skips between 1+2 and 2+3.

[Lawrence0294]

The sh#t storm is coming. I partially agree. I'm kinda neutral towards tali. She is nice but nothing really interesting, not much depth (my opinion so don't hate me). I'm mad though that she was a squadmate in ME3. It is clear she wasn't ment to but bioware decided to add her to not get reaped by her fanbase (the taste of her sweat, really ?). It really felt tacked on. At least we should've had a choice to take her with us or to leave her with the quarians, you know, where she should've stayed and help her people.

[hot_heart]

lillitheris wrote...
Weird, my Tali was totally on Legion’s side and I got to save both the geth and the quarians. It’s like you made some choices that made Tali different in your game…but that’s unpossible?!

Hate to pick at things but that was sort of their point. Even if you do resolve the situation peacefully, she still says that line beforehand.

Anyway, my two cents, Tali can be a polarising character. I don't hate her but I'm not particularly fond of her.

She does seem immature, but there's nothing wrong with having an immature character. If you look at her background, I think it's natural she would be prejudiced against the geth. She wasn't there for the Morning War, and her father was always working on ways to reclaim Rannoch. She has been brought up to blame the geth for why she had to grow up in a bubble before wearing a suit, has no home planet and why even the smallest acts of intimacy carry a significant health risk.

It can take time for a person to fully overcome/break from that sort of upbringing, especially when put in such a high pressure situation as in ME3. It's also a little more interesting if a character isn't in 100% agreeance in every situation.

Obviously, the deeper understanding of a character comes from making an effort to learn more, which is tough if you dismiss them off-the-bat.

Modifié par hot_heart, 04 juin 2012 - 01:12 .

[Olueq]

Sounds like people are mad that a character they dont like is popular. THERES A SHOCKER. You know, I dont like Miranda but I dont go making threads about it.

[Arlionis]

Olueq wrote...

Arlionis wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Haters gona hate.

Not hate, just frustration seeing so many resources getting wasted. 

wait..... are you talking about Liara? ahahah

Nope, I'm talking about Tali. Garrus and Liara also got a lot of time, but at least both character progress. The premise of this topic isn't about "facetime" but about the lack of progress/development of Tali as a character. While Tali is an example of how not to write a character Garrus is an example of how to write a character. 

[ryder500]

How do justify tali as being forced down throat?

In me2 and 3 you don't get her until half way through game and she doesn't really talk to you if you don't talk to her?

I think you are just clutch at straws and your argument is bad. You are just looking for argument where there is no argument.

[Arlionis]

Aurora313 wrote...

Tali and Liara both fall into the catagory for me, but Tali is more bearable than Liara. At least Tali doesn't constantly try to get in my Shep's pants when he's already taken.

I guess your Shepard isn't a male, because Tali thews herself at male Shepard "the dashing commander" in a very tasteless, cheap way during ME2. 

[Ponei]

 Arlionis your porfie picture is ugly 

[Applepie_Svk]

Well, dude she is product of her society - I don´t like her as much as other alien squadmates but I like her much more than VS and Jacob... LoL

Otherwise she never mentioned that in the morning war there was two sides in quarians society, as was said in consensus Quarian people forget about these peoples or simply rejected the fact that they maybe did mistake, also she changed her mind after speaking with Legion - about hating the geth.
If you pushed her with paragon action in ME2 betwen her and Legion she even agreed with Sheppard point of view same as Legion understand that information could bring another war betwen both species....

Ponei wrote...

 Arlionis your porfie picture is ugly [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sick.png[/smilie]

 

It´s Shiala and it´s much better than you avatar of Tali from ME3, well lol used stock photo ... It was maybe dozen of high quality Talí´s pictures from fans which were ... no which are better than what we got. I think if they did just election for best fan art which should be Tali´s face and they gave to winner ME3 and all content for Free they did not just great PR step but also showed to players how they care for franchise.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 04 juin 2012 - 01:30 .

[Terrorize69]

Arlionis wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Arlionis wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Haters gona hate.

Not hate, just frustration seeing so many resources getting wasted. 

wait..... are you talking about Liara? ahahah

Nope, I'm talking about Tali. Garrus and Liara also got a lot of time, but at least both character progress. The premise of this topic isn't about "facetime" but about the lack of progress/development of Tali as a character. While Tali is an example of how not to write a character Garrus is an example of how to write a character. 

Maybe you don't spend much time with Tali etc seeing how you dislike her so much, or maybe you'd see how she develops throughout the series, even more so if she's your LI. Even without the LI side of her, you'll see how she steps out from her fathers shadow as an Admirals daughter from 1 and 2, to standing on her own feet as an Admiral in 3 and looked up to by others as someone other the Rael's kid. Etc, etc.

It all depends how you look into it, I could say the same for Liara, Miranda etc. If you don't spend the time with them or dislike them to begin with, you don't see how they progress.

[Babi_Siha]

Terrorize69 wrote...

Haters goona hate

And of course there will always be someone who can't respect other people's opinions and think we're haters because they can't argue. I don't like Tali the same way I don't like Kaidan, Jack, Jacob and Javik and that doesn't make me a hater, it just means I didn't connect with the characters, though that's probably hard for a Talimancer to understand since most of them actually are haters of anything that's not Tali, Liara being a great example of that.

ryder500 wrote...

You mad that miranda was harldy in me3 babi? lel

To be honest yes, I didn't like the treatment Miranda and Thane received in ME3, and if it was just a matter of her having small screentime but remaining the same character as she was in ME2 I'd be more okay with her role, though that wasn't tha case. But if you think that's why I don't like Tali you're wrong. I never liked her since the first game, I thought she was moody and annoying and the only good quality I can think of her is that she's loyal.

Modifié par Babi_Siha, 04 juin 2012 - 01:35 .