180 réponses à ce sujet

[Lazengan]

Shajar wrote...

Tali is interesting unlike Liara. Tali is very deeply written and is still same character. You should make thread how to write Liara, character changes in every game just to keep her in plot someway, really badly done imo.

Anyway, troll thread is troll thread. Or just bad hate

All the other charcters evolve and shape their personalities in a way, and the relationship varies and changes. Liara grew from a nerdy prothean researcher to a cold blooded heartless killer and information broker, while shepard in the meantime comforts her and goes through this change with her. Ashley distances herself from Shepard and begins mistrusting you since ME2, culnimating into a gunpoint standoff by ME3.

Tali is just in love with you all throughout the series, and nothing really changes, boring schoolgirl crush, unwavering loyalty.

Modifié par Lazengan, 04 juin 2012 - 03:11 .

[Arlionis]

Theodoro wrote...

Everybody has their own opinions, but I believe that bringing Tali down as an 'example' of how not to write a character is inconsiderate and shallow.

What do you find wrong with Tali, I'm curious? First of all, she's quite possibly one of the most loyal characters you'll ever have in Mass Effect, she's good-hearted, generous and kind, not to mention funny when she wants to be. Most of all, she's loyal not only to the cause and Shepard's mission, but also to her own people. Of course she would stand up for herself and the quarians if Shepard wants to exterminate them. She has a new opinion of the geth as people equal to any other, and that is well portrayed in the third game, but do you expect she'll stand by and let Shepard allow the possible slaughter of her entire race? It's called devotion. If anything, she's one of the best-written characters, in my opinion.

I'm glad you brought that one up, because Tali's unrealistic and pet like loyalty is one of the aspects that bores me the most about her.  

Blind loyalty isn't precisely an interesting trait, if that were the case then just replace her for a dog, at least it'd be more cute. An interesting character can be loyal, yes, but at the same time has a will, personality and motives of his/her own, blind following is just predictable and uninteresting. Tali fails in that respect, her attitude is childish and her lack of introspect and questioning of Shepard makes her shallow and unidimensional. For example, during the three games you can see multitude of characters questioning Shepard, Garrus and Liara and an example of this, Miranda is constantly questioning Shepard and Ashley brings some great points regarding about why trusting Shepard so easily is not a good idea (something that becomes clear when even Shep questions him/herself during the Cerberus base mission). Those are interesting characters, because they push you to think about the protagonist's motives and goals. 

Modifié par Arlionis, 04 juin 2012 - 03:12 .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

I'm still going by the theory that the main reason why people hate tali is because of talimancers.

[Lazengan]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I'm still going by the theory that the main reason why people hate tali is because of talimancers.

that war happened a LONG time ago

and Stanley Woo destroyed most of the tali cults, the rest are in exile and post on another forums

[Terrorize69]

Lazengan wrote...

Shajar wrote...

Tali is interesting unlike Liara. Tali is very deeply written and is still same character. You should make thread how to write Liara, character changes in every game just to keep her in plot someway, really badly done imo.

Anyway, troll thread is troll thread. Or just bad hate

Tali is just in love with you all throughout the series, and nothing really changes, boring schoolgirl crush, unwavering loyalty.

You know that sum's up Liara too? All depends on your views/opinons and your likes/dislikes.

[ichi9181]

not all of us

[Theodoro]

Arlionis wrote...
Blind loyalty isn't precisely an interesting trait, if that were the case then just replace her for a dog, at least it'd be more cute. An interesting character can be loyal, yes, but at the same time has a will, personality and motives of his/her own, blind following is just predictable and uninteresting. Tali fails in that respect, her attitude is childish and her lack of introspect and questioning of Shepard makes her shallow and unidimensional. For example, during the three games you can see multitude of characters questioning Shepard, Garrus and Liara and an example of this, Miranda is constantly questioning Shepard and Ashley brings some great points regarding about why trusting Shepard so easily is not a good idea (something that becomes clear when even Shep questions him/herself during the Cerberus base mission). Those are interesting characters, because they push you to think about the protagonist's motives and goals.

So because Tali does not disagree with Shepard and would do the same decisions as him/her is something that makes her uninteresting? I fail to see the line of logic here. And it's not like she agrees with everything - Shepard siding with the geth is a perfect example of that, as well as saving the Collector Base and being part of Cerberus. Tali is not afraid to voice her opinion, and when she disagrees with something Shepard does, she lets him/her know. She's a paragon at heart, so of course if you play your character paragon, as well, she will follow.

And tell me precisely which part of her loyalty mission in ME2 shows that she either lacks backbone or motives of her own. She flat out tells Shepard not to present the evidence to the Admiralty Board - and she pleads for him/her not to do so. She has her opinions and motivations, and her loyalty mission is a perfect example of that. She has a will of her own. But Tali's the kind of person that is willing to put her personal feelings aside if they will help the others around her and the mission that she helps accomplish for the good of the galaxy - yes - she is saving the galaxy, and she knows that such preferences would not always be met, but she still goes on, she still devotes her attention to the mission at hand. That speaks more about her than my words will, and if you do not agree with that kind of honor, kindess, devotion, resolution and the will to give one's life for the sake of the mission, then there's nothing more to be said - apparently you do not appreciate or value such qualities in a person.

Modifié par Theodoro, 04 juin 2012 - 03:19 .

[ichi9181]

Theodoro wrote...

Arlionis wrote...
Blind loyalty isn't precisely an interesting trait, if that were the case then just replace her for a dog, at least it'd be more cute. An interesting character can be loyal, yes, but at the same time has a will, personality and motives of his/her own, blind following is just predictable and uninteresting. Tali fails in that respect, her attitude is childish and her lack of introspect and questioning of Shepard makes her shallow and unidimensional. For example, during the three games you can see multitude of characters questioning Shepard, Garrus and Liara and an example of this, Miranda is constantly questioning Shepard and Ashley brings some great points regarding about why trusting Shepard so easily is not a good idea (something that becomes clear when even Shep questions him/herself during the Cerberus base mission). Those are interesting characters, because they push you to think about the protagonist's motives and goals.

So because Tali does not disagree with Shepard and would do the same decisions as him/her is something that makes her uninteresting? I fail to see the line of logic here. And it's not like she agrees with everything - Shepard siding with the geth is a perfect example of that, as well as saving the Collector Base and being part of Cerberus. Tali is not afraid to voice her opinion, and when she disagrees with something Shepard does, she lets him/her know. She's a paragon at heart, so of course if you play your character paragon, as well, she will follow.

And tell me precisely which part of her loyalty mission in ME2 shows that she either lacks backbone or motives of her own. She flat out tells Shepard not to present the evidence to the Admiralty Board - and she pleads for him/her not to do so. She has her opinions and motivations, and her loyalty mission is a perfect example of that. She has a will of her own. But Tali's the kind of person that is willing to put her personal feelings aside if they will help the others around her and the mission that she helps accomplish for the good of the galaxy - yes - she is saving the galaxy, and she knows that such preferences would not always be met, but she still goes on, she still devotes her attention to the mission at hand. That speaks more about her than my words will, and if you do not agree with that kind of honor, kindess, devotion, resolution and the will to give one's life for the sake of the mission, then there's nothing more to be said - apparently you do not appreciate or value such qualities in a person.

i agre theo

[JesseLee202]

Pride Demon wrote...

Arlionis wrote...

For a character that was shoved down our throats in all the Mass Effect games it's frustrating to see how not only her progression (if there's any) is almost non-existent but also so and erratic in nature. 

In the first game she's a talking codex entry, nothing else. In the second game she was inserted as the "virginal romance option" for male Shepard (which, to be honest, is as creepy as it gets because the whole thing just feels like a reenactment of a middle aged high-school professor taking advantage of some confused, dumb student) and the "development" attempt with her was to shown she was a Geth hating racist even after meeting Legion and finding out not all Geth were the same and, oh, and her whole "daddy issues" complex. 

Now my beef is with ME3. I mean, considering that she talked to Legion like you have, considering  she knows the motivations of the Geth like you do, considering that all the Quarians know exactly what happened during the Morning War, etc. her prejudice against the Geth "you cannot choose the Geth over my people" (as if the Quarians were in some capacity innately superior to the Geth) is just 100% indefensible.

Now, you can say: "but her racism makes her flawed,  and that adds deep to her!" that would be true if that racism/xenophobia were consistent, if during the first part of ME3 she hadn't shown signs of "befriending" Legion or gaining a "new understanding" of the Geth. The emotional and personality "flip-flopping" and that constant and unpredictable shifting of positions show how poorly constructed as a character she is. One example of this would be her voting stance regarding going to war against the Geth in ME3, she votes in favour or against it depending what you said to the admirals during her ME2 loyalty mission, zero personality of her own. 

In short, it's a shame that so many development resources were wasted in such a bland character when Miranda, Jack, Samara, and well, any of ME2 cast, would have been more interesting for ME3 as a squad member. 

You are entitled to your opinion. But I don't understand the portion I bolded, and how it's supposed to show her "flip-flopping" character development...
Speaking from a logical point of view, considering her species was faced with annihilation at the moment she say that, it'll frankly raise some serious doubts regarding Tali's sanity if she has simply said "Damn, updating the code would make the geth destroy my entire race! But I'm good, go ahead... They are stupid anyway..."

Seriously, what did you expect her to say given the circumstances?

OP obviously wanted Tali to do WHATEVER shep says or else they are not a good character. And considering the entire OP is pretty much copy and paste from a thread a while back, I will go ahead and guess OP is mad that Tali got a squad spot over shiala 

[Savakka1]

Difference of perspectives and preferences are more likely reasons here than supposed bad writing in this case, as has been established by the posts in this thread; Some people appreciate the loyalty, some think questioning nature is better.

There are characters that I admit were well written and had character development, but I still didn't automatically like them due to their nature or other points. That's why we have diversity in their personalities and morals. If they were all similar to each other, where would be the fun at that?

[Pride Demon]

Theodoro wrote...

Arlionis wrote...
Blind loyalty isn't precisely an interesting trait, if that were the case then just replace her for a dog, at least it'd be more cute. An interesting character can be loyal, yes, but at the same time has a will, personality and motives of his/her own, blind following is just predictable and uninteresting. Tali fails in that respect, her attitude is childish and her lack of introspect and questioning of Shepard makes her shallow and unidimensional. For example, during the three games you can see multitude of characters questioning Shepard, Garrus and Liara and an example of this, Miranda is constantly questioning Shepard and Ashley brings some great points regarding about why trusting Shepard so easily is not a good idea (something that becomes clear when even Shep questions him/herself during the Cerberus base mission). Those are interesting characters, because they push you to think about the protagonist's motives and goals.

So because Tali does not disagree with Shepard and would do the same decisions as him/her is something that makes her uninteresting? I fail to see the line of logic here. And it's not like she agrees with everything - Shepard siding with the geth is a perfect example of that, as well as saving the Collector Base and being part of Cerberus. Tali is not afraid to voice her opinion, and when she disagrees with something Shepard does, she lets him/her know. She's a paragon at heart, so of course if you play your character paragon, as well, she will follow.

And tell me precisely which part of her loyalty mission in ME2 shows that she either lacks backbone or motives of her own. She flat out tells Shepard not to present the evidence to the Admiralty Board - and she pleads for him/her not to do so. She has her opinions and motivations, and her loyalty mission is a perfect example of that. She has a will of her own. But Tali's the kind of person that is willing to put her personal feelings aside if they will help the others around her and the mission that she helps accomplish for the good of the galaxy - yes - she is saving the galaxy, and she knows that such preferences would not always be met, but she still goes on, she still devotes her attention to the mission at hand. That speaks more about her than my words will, and if you do not agree with that kind of honor, kindess, devotion, resolution and the will to give one's life for the sake of the mission, then there's nothing more to be said - apparently you do not appreciate or value such qualities in a person.

She also questions Shepard regarding Legion during their confrontation...
"I trusted you and worked with a geth in the team. But this is too much!" or something along those lines...

[Arlionis]

Theodoro wrote...

Arlionis wrote...
Blind loyalty isn't precisely an interesting trait, if that were the case then just replace her for a dog, at least it'd be more cute. An interesting character can be loyal, yes, but at the same time has a will, personality and motives of his/her own, blind following is just predictable and uninteresting. Tali fails in that respect, her attitude is childish and her lack of introspect and questioning of Shepard makes her shallow and unidimensional. For example, during the three games you can see multitude of characters questioning Shepard, Garrus and Liara and an example of this, Miranda is constantly questioning Shepard and Ashley brings some great points regarding about why trusting Shepard so easily is not a good idea (something that becomes clear when even Shep questions him/herself during the Cerberus base mission). Those are interesting characters, because they push you to think about the protagonist's motives and goals.

So because Tali does not disagree with Shepard and would do the same decisions as him/her is something that makes her uninteresting? I fail to see the line of logic here. And it's not like she agrees with everything - Shepard siding with the geth is a perfect example of that, as well as saving the Collector Base and being part of Cerberus. Tali is not afraid to voice her opinion, and when she disagrees with something Shepard does, she lets him/her know. She's a paragon at heart, so of course if you play your character paragon, as well, she will follow.

And tell me precisely which part of her loyalty mission in ME2 shows that she either lacks backbone or motives of her own. She flat out tells Shepard not to present the evidence to the Admiralty Board - and she pleads for him/her not to do so. She has her opinions and motivations, and her loyalty mission is a perfect example of that. She has a will of her own. But Tali's the kind of person that is willing to put her personal feelings aside if they will help the others around her and the mission that she helps accomplish for the good of the galaxy - yes - she is saving the galaxy, and she knows that such preferences would not always be met, but she still goes on, she still devotes her attention to the mission at hand. That speaks more about her than my words will, and if you do not agree with that kind of honor, kindess, devotion, resolution and the will to give one's life for the sake of the mission, then there's nothing more to be said - apparently you do not appreciate or value such qualities in a person.

But there's a difference between voicing a slightly different opinion and opposing the protagonist. Ashley has the guts to oppose Shepard, Miranda too, and Jack practically finds pleasure in contradicting Shepard. Many other characters like Garrus and Liara (specially in ME1 when she calls out Shepard for running over the pyjaks) have also many great moments questioning the protagonist. 
Regarding the ME2 trial: Tali doesn't flat-out tell you to not present the evidence, she begs like a child and then remains statically helpless in her place when you bring her father's crimes to light and get her exiled. Worst yet, she still romances male Shepard and worships him in the exact same way she'd do it have you not presented the evidence. 

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

You see OP. I would have respected your opinion, but I can't really take anything you say seriously because yes, you are indeed trolling. I even have this handy dandy troll alarm that always beeps whenever I see one over the internets.

[JesseLee202]

Arlionis wrote...

Theodoro wrote...

Arlionis wrote...
Blind loyalty isn't precisely an interesting trait, if that were the case then just replace her for a dog, at least it'd be more cute. An interesting character can be loyal, yes, but at the same time has a will, personality and motives of his/her own, blind following is just predictable and uninteresting. Tali fails in that respect, her attitude is childish and her lack of introspect and questioning of Shepard makes her shallow and unidimensional. For example, during the three games you can see multitude of characters questioning Shepard, Garrus and Liara and an example of this, Miranda is constantly questioning Shepard and Ashley brings some great points regarding about why trusting Shepard so easily is not a good idea (something that becomes clear when even Shep questions him/herself during the Cerberus base mission). Those are interesting characters, because they push you to think about the protagonist's motives and goals.

So because Tali does not disagree with Shepard and would do the same decisions as him/her is something that makes her uninteresting? I fail to see the line of logic here. And it's not like she agrees with everything - Shepard siding with the geth is a perfect example of that, as well as saving the Collector Base and being part of Cerberus. Tali is not afraid to voice her opinion, and when she disagrees with something Shepard does, she lets him/her know. She's a paragon at heart, so of course if you play your character paragon, as well, she will follow.

And tell me precisely which part of her loyalty mission in ME2 shows that she either lacks backbone or motives of her own. She flat out tells Shepard not to present the evidence to the Admiralty Board - and she pleads for him/her not to do so. She has her opinions and motivations, and her loyalty mission is a perfect example of that. She has a will of her own. But Tali's the kind of person that is willing to put her personal feelings aside if they will help the others around her and the mission that she helps accomplish for the good of the galaxy - yes - she is saving the galaxy, and she knows that such preferences would not always be met, but she still goes on, she still devotes her attention to the mission at hand. That speaks more about her than my words will, and if you do not agree with that kind of honor, kindess, devotion, resolution and the will to give one's life for the sake of the mission, then there's nothing more to be said - apparently you do not appreciate or value such qualities in a person.

But there's a difference between voicing a slightly different opinion and opposing the protagonist. Ashley has the guts to oppose Shepard, Miranda too, and Jack practically finds pleasure in contradicting Shepard. Many other characters like Garrus and Liara (specially in ME1 when she calls out Shepard for running over the pyjaks) have also many great moments questioning the protagonist. 
Regarding the ME2 trial: Tali doesn't flat-out tell you to not present the evidence, she begs like a child and then remains statically helpless in her place when you bring her father's crimes to light and get her exiled. Worst yet, she still romances male Shepard and worships him in the exact same way she'd do it have you not presented the evidence. 

 oh sorry, I fell asleep while you were contradicting yourself...

[Theodoro]

Arlionis wrote...
But there's a difference between voicing a slightly different opinion and opposing the protagonist. Ashley has the guts to oppose Shepard, Miranda too, and Jack practically finds pleasure in contradicting Shepard. Many other characters like Garrus and Liara (specially in ME1 when she calls out Shepard for running over the pyjaks) have also many great moments questioning the protagonist. 
Regarding the ME2 trial: Tali doesn't flat-out tell you to not present the evidence, she begs like a child and then remains statically helpless in her place when you bring her father's crimes to light and get her exiled. Worst yet, she still romances male Shepard and worships him in the exact same way she'd do it have you not presented the evidence. 

I fail to see the difference between Tali's disapproval of Shepard's actions and Miranda and Jack's. All of them are a part of the team, and each of them knows that they have to set aside their personal differences because the fate of the galaxy is at stake, and that's why all of them are deserving of being on Shepard's crew. Miranda and Jack voice their opinions, as well, and choose not to act on them because they answer to Shepard. Hell, they hate each other, but they still know that there are bigger fish to catch.

As for Ashley, she was never part of Shepard's crew to begin with in ME2. She is an Alliance soldier, and she opposes Cerberus' goals and ideals because her loyalty lies with the Alliance first, not Cerberus. She has a different perspective on what is necessary to complete the mission and what's not - it's what makes characters different. If everyone acted the same way, there'd be no diversity among characters. With Tali and Garrus' case is different because they don't answer to the Alliance the same way Ashley and Kaidan do, and while all of them have the utmost respect for Shepard, they have their different priorities. I fail to see what's wrong with that.

Tali stands her ground on ME2's loyalty mission and firmly says that Shepard can't present the evidence to the Admiralty Board. I think you need to replay the scene again. Regardless of Shepard's decision, however, she puts her own troubles aside because she knows that her help is needed to deal with the Collector threat, the magnitude of which she understands perfectly. She will forever remember Shepard's decision to present the evidence to the Admiralty Board, but she will still stand by him/her because she knows it's the right thing to do. As for the fact that she still pursues a romance with Shepard even if he had presented the evidence, I'd say that it's pure negligence on BioWare's part as it makes no sense - I feel that it should not be possible for Tali to romance Shepard if he gave the evidence to the Admiralty Board. (Edit: And now I see that people have actually disproven the fact that you can romance Tali if you gave the evidence, so that point is now moot.)

Modifié par Theodoro, 04 juin 2012 - 04:05 .

[Savakka1]

Arlionis wrote...
Worst yet, she still romances male Shepard and worships him in the exact same way she'd do it have you not presented the evidence.

Wrong. If you present the evidence, you'll only be able to have one dialogue with her in the engine room where she pretty much trashes you and asks you to "not come down here unless it's something important" She stil decideds to stay for the mission, but you won't be able to have any more dialogue with her in the engine room nor romance her.

Modifié par Savakka1, 04 juin 2012 - 03:59 .

[JesseLee202]

Savakka1 wrote...

Arlionis wrote...
Worst yet, she still romances male Shepard and worships him in the exact same way she'd do it have you not presented the evidence.

Wrong. If you present the evidence, you'll only be able to have one dialogue with her in the engine room where she pretty much trashes you and asks you to "not come down here unless it's something important" She stil decideds to stay for the mission, but you won't be able to have any more dialogue with her in the engine room nor romance her.

Really? 

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

JesseLee202 wrote...

Savakka1 wrote...

Arlionis wrote...
Worst yet, she still romances male Shepard and worships him in the exact same way she'd do it have you not presented the evidence.

Wrong. If you present the evidence, you'll only be able to have one dialogue with her in the engine room where she pretty much trashes you and asks you to "not come down here unless it's something important" She stil decideds to stay for the mission, but you won't be able to have any more dialogue with her in the engine room nor romance her.

Really? 

Yep.

[Arlionis]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

You see OP. I would have respected your opinion, but I can't really take anything you say seriously because yes, you are indeed trolling. I even have this handy dandy troll alarm that always beeps whenever I see one over the internets.

You need to get it checked because it's not working. So, I'm trolling because I detest a character you like. I wonder, how old are you? 

[Arlionis]

Savakka1 wrote...

Arlionis wrote...
Worst yet, she still romances male Shepard and worships him in the exact same way she'd do it have you not presented the evidence.

Wrong. If you present the evidence, you'll only be able to have one dialogue with her in the engine room where she pretty much trashes you and asks you to "not come down here unless it's something important" She stil decideds to stay for the mission, but you won't be able to have any more dialogue with her in the engine room nor romance her.

You can romance an exiled Tali and her dialog is basically the same if you have enough paragon/renegade points. 

[JesseLee202]

Arlionis wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

You see OP. I would have respected your opinion, but I can't really take anything you say seriously because yes, you are indeed trolling. I even have this handy dandy troll alarm that always beeps whenever I see one over the internets.

You need to get it checked because it's not working. So, I'm trolling because I detest a character you like. I wonder, how old are you? 

Lets all join!  

HOW OLD R U?!

[Skullheart]

I disagree with OP. liara should be an example about how not to write a character.

- I wanted to play ME3, not t'soni effect.
- Sure, let's make her the shadow broker, however she is an useless broker in ME3 (Traynor is better than her regarding intelligence).She should have rrmained as an archeologist.
- She is the forced best friend. Funny how our decisions matter when whe treated her like crap on ME1, but she is a close friend in ME2. In LotSB we can tell her that we only want a professional relatonship with her, but in ME3 she still acts like our best friend. Where the hll are our decisions? And entering various time to Shep cabin... I really hate her character.

Didn't have any problem with her in ME1 (because I had the option to not being friendly with her). But in ME2 and ME3 that option is out of picture. I hate Walters for forcing that characteron us with no giving the option to not be friends with her.

[Savakka1]

Arlionis wrote...
You can romance an exiled Tali and her dialog is basically the same if you have enough paragon/renegade points. 

Your post conveyed that you could romance Tali even after you had presented the evidence of her father's crimes.

But if this is the case, I see no issue, as in this outcome, Shepard did what Tali wished for.

Modifié par Savakka1, 04 juin 2012 - 04:07 .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Arlionis wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

You see OP. I would have respected your opinion, but I can't really take anything you say seriously because yes, you are indeed trolling. I even have this handy dandy troll alarm that always beeps whenever I see one over the internets.

You need to get it checked because it's not working. So, I'm trolling because I detest a character you like. I wonder, how old are you? 

No. I can tell your trolling not only from the title of your thread. But as soon as I saw you say "Oh, they wasted resources on Tali and not on a character I like hurr hurr" is what raised the red flag.

Also your "detailed" posts about why you think Tali is a bad character? You can quite literally apply it to any other character. All you have to do is replace "tali" with another character and there you go.

Modifié par Mr.BlazenGlazen, 04 juin 2012 - 04:10 .

[Theodoro]

Skullheart wrote...

I disagree with OP. liara should be an example about how not to write a character.

- I wanted to play ME3, not t'soni effect.
- Sure, let's make her the shadow broker, however she is an useless broker in ME3 (Traynor is better than her regarding intelligence).She should have rrmained as an archeologist.
- She is the forced best friend. Funny how our decisions matter when whe treated her like crap on ME1, but she is a close friend in ME2. In LotSB we can tell her that we only want a professional relatonship with her, but in ME3 she still acts like our best friend. Where the hll are our decisions? And entering various time to Shep cabin... I really hate her character.

Didn't have any problem with her in ME1 (because I had the option to not being friendly with her). But in ME2 and ME3 that option is out of picture. I hate Walters for forcing that characteron us with no giving the option to not be friends with her.

And you should be an example of how a person can't bring anything constructive to a thread about a certain character that you don't even mention in your rant about somebody completely different purely out of spite for that person that you must spread with hate in a totally irrelevant topic.

Modifié par Theodoro, 04 juin 2012 - 04:09 .