55 réponses à ce sujet

[MuddledMage]

This afternoon I equipped Alistair with a bow and Elf arrows in the Elven ruins and had Shale chasing the boss that plays the Four Corners. I sat there as a mage and watched as Alistair and Shale took him out. The skeletons chased Shale and left Alistair alone and those "measly arrows" did 80% of the work.



It ain't the tool folks, it's how the tool is used.

[Tonya777]

Viglin wrote...
And when your Archer can hit from 200 points up....how is that useless?

Arrow of slayings cooldown time is ridiculously long , AND is horribly inaccurate

A CUN/Lethality/Assassin Rogue can do 200+ dmg every second AND still swap to bow and arrow of slaying some mob from a distance before or after that too

Being an archer full time is absolutley stupid , though I'm considering trying it sooner or later since I'm running out of playthrough ideas

[catofnine]

ExGoldenKnight wrote...

Low Damage & Low Defense = Archer.

If you think they're low damage you're not speccing them correctly.  Second, if you manage your aggro having low defense is a non issue.

I'm not rolling an archer for my playthroughs because I find them boring.  However, as of my last save game Leliana hits like a truck dualwielding trucks with arrows of slaying (~561 pts of dmg.)  Should also add damage isn't everything--she has debuffs, snare, short duration single target/multiple target cc and other utilities as well.

Modifié par catofnine, 12 décembre 2009 - 01:56 .

[DJoker35]

Tonya777 wrote...

Viglin wrote...
And when your Archer can hit from 200 points up....how is that useless?

Arrow of slayings cooldown time is ridiculously long , AND is horribly inaccurate

A CUN/Lethality/Assassin Rogue can do 200+ dmg every second AND still swap to bow and arrow of slaying some mob from a distance before or after that too

Being an archer full time is absolutley stupid , though I'm considering trying it sooner or later since I'm running out of playthrough ideas

Well, I suppose if enjoying the game in whatever fashion (in my case, playing an archer) is stupid, then so be it. I'm not a number cruncher or a power gamer. But I had no trouble playing an archer. No party wipes, finished without dying. Given, it was on normal, but I truly enjoyed it. I guess it all comes down to what you enjoy playing. If your goal is to smash through the game as easily and quickly as possible, then sure, do something else. Archer takes some forthought, a little strategy, and some patience to make sure you fire what you need when you need it. It's more of a challenge than some, less of one than others.

When it was all said and done, my archer did 309,416 points of damage with a 92% hit rate for 49% of total party damage, 703 points being the biggest hit. That to me wasn't too shabby. But in the end, all that really mattered was...it was fun.

BTW, never found arrow of slaying to be horribly, terribly, or any other "ly" innacurate. I don't think I recall more than 5 or so times it didn't connect. The Master Archer talent does help alot.

[DaeFaron]

Djoker, what would you say to put stat-wise for an archer, the same 2 dex 1 cunning per level? I'll probably do one sometime. (I play 360)

[Faerell Gustani]

ExGoldenKnight wrote...

Best damage = 2 dagger Rogue or Mage.
Best Defense = One Sword w/ Shield.
Low Damage & Low Defense = Archer.

Never use 2h sword and never will.

Perhaps from a pure damage perspective, however you also need to take into consideration tactical positioning.
Archery is useful for the following reasoning:
Taking out enemies who are on cliffs or at the bottom of them.
Getting in some quick damage before the enemy gets to you.
Being able to deal damage while not clustered up for enemy mages to conveniently AoE.
Being able to deal damage to Solo Bosses (like Revenants and Dragons) while staying out of their Auras and sweeping attacks.
Being able to attack fleeing foes without wasting time chasing them.

So yeah, perhaps archery is not the best straight up damage dealer, but it has good burst damage (arrow of slaying) to take out an enemy early on, and it has a multitude of tactical usages.
Arguably, mages are infinitely better at anything an archer can do, but that's really the only downfall.

I primarily use archery as a backup option for my rogues when I don't want to send them into melee.  So in that sense I do agree that being a full-time archer is not the smartest thing, but it's a very nice backup thing to have.  That being said, the Dual Weapon tree only requires you spend 6 talents to be a damage dealing machine (3 in the dual wield proficiencies for passive buffs, and 3 to get Momentum...ignore dual striking)...so all of those skill points have got to go somewhere...why not archery?

Modifié par Faerell Gustani, 12 décembre 2009 - 02:25 .

[DJoker35]

DaeFaron wrote...

Djoker, what would you say to put stat-wise for an archer, the same 2 dex 1 cunning per level? I'll probably do one sometime. (I play 360)

Hi DaeFaron

If you're doing a rogue archer (I'm assuming you are), go full Dex until you hit 32. Off the top of my head, that's what you need to get all the archery talents. Basically, get dex high enough so you'll be able to get them all. Plus, dex is going to be your primary damage dealing stat, so the higher the better anyway. Now, bows use both Strength and Dex for their attribute bonuses, but ignore Str...you're going to want to get the Lethality talent asap, so that Cunning will replace Strength for this.

And hence, cunning is going to be your next focused attribute. At this point I did a mix of 3 points at a time into cunning, or 2 into cunning and 1 into Willpower. I think I may have done a level with everything into Willpower as well. One you get cunning to 32 as well, then spread your points. 1 Dex, 1 Cun, and 1 Willpower, or 2-1 into 2 attributes.

Basically, you want Dex and Cunning as high as you can, with WIllpower mixed in as well.

Get your hands on a bow with the Rapid Aim trait. This is going to make a huge difference. If you're starting as a Dalish Elf, you should come across, or be able to buy, both long and shortbows with the trait. With a good bow, the primary sustained talent you'll want on is Aim.  Though it will slow your shots down, they are more effective. And with a Rapid Aim bow, the slowdown about balances out. I would say Rapid Aim is more useful than any other trait a bow may have, so choose it over anything else. But definately experiment.

Lower levels will be a bit tougher. Shattershot and pinning shot are very useful, but things don't really start kicking into high gear until level 8-10. You'll be doing alot of support and debuffing. Don't be afraid to switch to melee weapons if you feel like it, but with the Melee Archer talent, you won't need to much, if at all. Be careful when you use Scattershot. Make sure you're tank has managed to get your foes attention first, because everyone will head right for you after you use it otherwise. But definately use it as much as possible. And once you have Arrow of Slaying and Master Archer, you'll be dropping darkspawn right and left.

I found Dog to be an excellent party member for the archer. He doesnt draw alot of aggro, and works perfectly, because of his speed and talents, in tandem with you taking out single target mages and bosses.

Have fun!

[PatT2]

i think people are spending more time with their calculators than they are with their games. Having been on the other end of a pinning shot. How annoying. Or having your entire group stunned with the other.... Archers are seriously useful.



I think the devs were trying to get folks to work as a team that together made up a superhero group, instead of using a group of individual superheros. (Except when they made morrigan.) She isn't much of a team player, unless she keeps her mouth shut.

[DJoker35]

PatT2 wrote...

i think people are spending more time with their calculators than they are with their games. Having been on the other end of a pinning shot. How annoying. Or having your entire group stunned with the other.... Archers are seriously useful.

I think the devs were trying to get folks to work as a team that together made up a superhero group, instead of using a group of individual superheros. (Except when they made morrigan.) She isn't much of a team player, unless she keeps her mouth shut.

Exactly.

[Jaekahn]

I think Archery has great utility and damage if you know how to use it. My archer does about 60% damage of the entire group which involves the ability of using stealth shot, critical shot and arrow of slaying in order to maximize my damage. Also, I find that if my entire group dies and my archer survives, I am able to solo a group of about five by stealth shot, arrow of slaying, kite, restealth and then fluxiate stealth shot and critical shot in order to keep yourself at a distance and get two automatic crits back to back. Archery is probably the most complex build if you use it correctly.

[magor1988x]

PatT2 wrote...

i think people are spending more time with their calculators than they are with their games. Having been on the other end of a pinning shot. How annoying. Or having your entire group stunned with the other.... Archers are seriously useful.

I think the devs were trying to get folks to work as a team that together made up a superhero group, instead of using a group of individual superheros. (Except when they made morrigan.) She isn't much of a team player, unless she keeps her mouth shut.

Finally somebody gets it... Still this thread is mostly full of fail.

Archery is powerful especially in the right mix. Dual wielding is powerful both by Rogues and Warriors. Mages are powerful.

Honest to god every tree of every class has a use. People get so hung up on their favorites they refuse to see other classes or talents as worth anything.

[DJoker35]

Jaekahn wrote...

I think Archery has great utility and damage if you know how to use it. My archer does about 60% damage of the entire group which involves the ability of using stealth shot, critical shot and arrow of slaying in order to maximize my damage. Also, I find that if my entire group dies and my archer survives, I am able to solo a group of about five by stealth shot, arrow of slaying, kite, restealth and then fluxiate stealth shot and critical shot in order to keep yourself at a distance and get two automatic crits back to back. Archery is probably the most complex build if you use it correctly.

I agree with all of that. That's how I use my archer, I've had very similar situations, and that's one of the things that makes it so enjoyable to play. It's complex and rewarding.

[deathwing200]

Archery is the ONLY non mage build capable of soloing the game. I am totally gonna melee that mage, lol j/k CC'd.

[PatT2]

I don't think there is a "worthless" or useless build. Unless maybe it's the shapeshifter. Tried that once. Takes way too long. But archery is very useful, even for characters not specced in it. There are times when you just have to take someone out at range because they're killing you before you can get to them. What I always give Wynn from the get-go is rock fist. That helps knock a single archer down. Long enough to get to him.

[Scott McPot]

Trajan60 wrote...

Archery and 2 handed weapons are about as useless as a men's bathroom at a Lillith Fair Show.

Actually I find both to work well together expecially against bosses that knock my party down a lot.  I mean I could go on for a while how great both are but I don't want to spoil anything, but Archers can attack from a distance usually able to continuosly attack.  My warriors could be knocked down and my mages busy healing or doing a spell and yet still my rouge archer is constantly doing damage.. wich in my case makes it good.  Also my two hander character does a lot of damage and I think if i were to calculate it all he would have the highest dps too depending on what buffs are on.

[Kyosukemox]

arrow of the slaying is up there as one of the skills that enables you to dish out over 1000 damage! right now I am at a 1541

[kevinwastaken]

Archery isn't useless but it sure is boring. I generally like playing the deadly archer character in RPGs but it just doesn't feel right in DAO.

"Right" in the sense that DW feels cool when you lop off heads and lay waste to entire hordes within seconds.

Bows don't have strings, when even in crappy old games bows had strings. Also, what's with the heat seaking arrows? I understand why it looks like that, but that doesn't change the fact that arrows chaning course in mid-flight looks ridiculous!

Modifié par kevinwastaken, 14 décembre 2009 - 08:29 .

[Kimberly Shaw]

While Leliana is doing a fine job sitting back firing arrows into the mages (keeping Arrow of Slaying reserved for pesky mages), and is even out damaging Shale and Zip (my doggie); I cannot fathom playing this game as an archer. It is just too boring.

[Kyosukemox]

kevinwastaken wrote...

Archery isn't useless but it sure is boring. I generally like playing the deadly archer character in RPGs but it just doesn't feel right in DAO.

"Right" in the sense that DW feels cool when you lop off heads and lay waste to entire hordes within seconds.

What not deadly? When your crit'ing for 1000+ damage!

[CalibanX]

Gee, my current character is a Dwarven Warrior Archer and he's doing over 40% of my party's damage. When enemies are forced to come after him his high armor and Dex makes him a lot harder to take down than Lelianna was.



In short, I'm having fun with it. Although to be fair I am using the LITE version of the better archery mod (I wanted to be able to Enchant my Bows).

[kevinwastaken]

Kyosukemox wrote...

kevinwastaken wrote...

Archery isn't useless but it sure is boring. I generally like playing the deadly archer character in RPGs but it just doesn't feel right in DAO.

"Right" in the sense that DW feels cool when you lop off heads and lay waste to entire hordes within seconds.

What not deadly? When your crit'ing for 1000+ damage!

I'll give you that, but you only get one shot in between 60 sec. cooldowns.

"Deadly" should mean having more than one ability to quickly dispatch mulitple enemies. Mages and DW warriors have it, why not archers?

What is archery for? Crowd control? High damage over time? Something else? There just doesn't seem to be any utility in it.

[SheffSteel]

kevinwastaken wrote...
Also, what's with the heat seaking arrows? I understand why it looks like that, but that doesn't change the fact that arrows chaning course in mid-flight looks ridiculous!

I agree - this is just sad.
What is ridiculous is that each point in the arrow's trail stays anchored in space, even if the arrow changes course. This means that you can see a curved arrow trail on the screen as you strafe past an archer. What they should have done is keep the trail straight - it should always go back from the arrow's current position to its original position. It takes more CPU power but less memory, so it's not an unreasonable tradeoff for something that would look a lot less ridiculous.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 14 décembre 2009 - 10:34 .

[harrykim306]

The op must be joking I have played all classes thus far and imo archery is overpowered and fiendishly so.



I had a way easier time playing as an archer than any other class I ended up single handly taking on all bosses and pawning them even the final encounter while my comrades lay in a pool of ther own blood.

[Thanatos45]

kevinwastaken wrote...

What is archery for? Crowd control? High damage over time? Something else? There just doesn't seem to be any utility in it.

Support for your frontliners? Archery focuses mostly on crippling and annoying enemies from a safe distance so your tanks have an easier time chopping their heads off, with 2 assassination talents thrown in for variety (critical shot and arrow of slaying). Can be very useful but probably not the most glorious role to have as the protagonist. The biggest problem I have with archery is that a lone archer just doesn't seem to make much of a difference (at least in my experience) while groups of archers are way OP. Before you know it they've reduced your entire parties' armor rating to 0 and have them pinned to the ground, in the meanwhile preparing to finish the job with a bunch of scattershots while you can't do anything about it.

[anarex]

I am actually starting to think archers may have the highest potential of everything. The problem is their strengths are really not obvious. If the missing manual site is to be believed, the bonuses you receive from the master archer talent are insane. http://dragonage.gul...t.org/doku.php/

Defensive fire with master archer gives you 30 defense, as in the equivalent of 30 points of dexterity. So in fact, properly speced, archers have much higher defense potential than any other class by a long shot. Like no one else even comes close.

Also, rapid fire scales with dex. That they don't tell you this in game is criminal. According to the people who made the game, with master archer, an archer can get his haste above 100% with rapid fire. Everyone else is capped at or below 50%. So archers have the highest rate of fire if you put everything in dex.

Alot of people seem to be talking about putting points into cunning and getting lethality for archers. This seems like a huge error. Half the damage comes from dex, half the damage comes from strength (cunning with lethality). All of the attack bonus comes from dex. Your rapid fire keeps getting better with more dex (over 100% increase to rate of fire). Your defense is determined all from dex. Why on earth would you increase something other than dex?

When you increase dex as an archer you increase damage, rate of fire, defense, and attack rating. Dex does way way too much.

When you increase cunning as an archer you increase damage and armor penetration.

You will never gain more damage by raising cunning instead of dex. Its not possible.

Modifié par anarex, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:24 .