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NWNCX Suggestion - open "hard coded" visual effects to modification/addition


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#101
MerricksDad

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check to make sure I am not a complete idiot, but it appears that any bezier, gravity or lightning effect was already able to be applied as a beam which automatically changed the reference point to that of the target even before NWNCX let us modify beams.2da. Is that accurate? Because that's what I am seeing with an unpatched exe.

I am able to direct any of those types to the target using the EffectBeam function. ALL bezier, gravity or lightning effects in the model will point to the target, you cannot change that by adding reference points.

Likewise, you cannot redirect any hand oriented effects in a ray to alternate targets in NWNCX. Is this something we can change like the helmet fix? It would be nice if I could mix a self oriented bezier effect in with a target oriented beam without having to make multiple files.

Edit: of course that would make the content NWNCX compatible only

Modifié par MerricksDad, 18 juillet 2012 - 07:33 .


#102
MerricksDad

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OldTimeRadio wrote...
Do you mean beam 15 as listed in the vfx_beams.2da?  I haven't seen that problem here yet, if that's what you're talking about.

yup. I can substitute any effect into that slot and it will always also fire off a magic missile along with the beam fx. I checked to make sure it was not a slop in the spell script and there is nothing mentioning anything about the MM effect in the script.

Just thinking out loud here: The toolset has entries for silent versions and I wonder if silent rays are like ray X + an offset. I will have to test more...

Modifié par MerricksDad, 18 juillet 2012 - 07:32 .


#103
OldTimeRadio

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MerricksDad wrote...
but it appears that any bezier, gravity or lightning effect was already able to be applied as a beam which automatically changed the reference point to that of the target even before NWNCX let us modify beams.2da. Is that accurate

Correct.  NWNCX doesn't change the nature of beams, just provides more of them.

MerricksDat wrote...
The toolset has entries for silent versions and I wonder if silent rays are like ray X + an offset.

Sounds for beams are in the SoundDuration column of visualeffects.2da.  Silent versions of the same beams have no entry in the visualeffects.2da under the SoundDuration column, but still reference the same ProgFX number.

#104
MerricksDad

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ok, so I am an idiot. I got rid of the extra magic missile by removing some of the loads of crap from my override directory. I forgot I downloaded some old tests before NWNCX. So ignore all the MM mishaps.

Anyway, I got a few more beams played with today. Is the nwvault staff on vacation or do they just not update NW1 content as readily as the NW2 stuff?

#105
OldTimeRadio

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MerricksDad wrote...
Anyway, I got a few more beams played with today. Is the nwvault staff on vacation or do they just not update NW1 content as readily as the NW2 stuff?

I know Maximus has been busy lately and that Rolo Kipp has been lending a hand to help him get submissions approved.  However, Rolo hasn't been around (that I've seen) for about a week.  A bit uncharacteristic for him.  So it just might mean the Vault is getting a little backlogged if you've already submitted something.

If it's a matter of hosting, you could make a project here- just be sure and edit the permissions so that people can download your files.  Otherwise, contacting Maximus via the vault or PMing Rolo Kipp are two things that might be useful.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 18 juillet 2012 - 11:08 .


#106
MerricksDad

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I think if my weapon fx base file doesn't make it by monday I will go ahead and comment to them. In the meantime it just lets me add to it. I was just surprised at how slow it was now in 2012 and in 2006 it only took a few hours max.

Does anybody have any requests for beam fx? I am just going to mass produce a bunch of stuff from various games until I've got my fill. Starting with diablo 3, moving back to wowc, probably stop at some space games while I am at it, maybe some star wars stuff. If you have a pic or movie, I'd be glad to inspect it.

#107
OldTimeRadio

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If you're looking for ideas, the Vault is always a good place to start.  Also the Omnibus is a great place for ideas, too.  I'm going to play around with ideas I find there, mostly.

#108
Shadooow

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MerricksDad wrote...

Does anybody have any requests for beam fx? I am just going to mass produce a bunch of stuff from various games until I've got my fill. Starting with diablo 3, moving back to wowc, probably stop at some space games while I am at it, maybe some star wars stuff. If you have a pic or movie, I'd be glad to inspect it.

prismatic ray please :)

EDIT: though of some more:
- (fire) shuriken projectile-like beam (for the fire shurikens spell)
- whirling blade like Blade sentinel/fury abilities from diablo2 (assassin->traps)

Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 19 juillet 2012 - 01:05 .


#109
MerricksDad

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ShaDoOoW wrote...
prismatic ray please :)

EDIT: though of some more:
- (fire) shuriken projectile-like beam (for the fire shurikens spell)
- whirling blade like Blade sentinel/fury abilities from diablo2 (assassin->traps)

How would you like a prismatic ray? Should it be like a unicorn farting a rainbow, or should it be like a spray of various gems, or shoudl it simply flicker the color palette as it shoots to the enemy. Do you have an example, maybe even if you just draw it and upload it? Otherwise I could do the prismatic ray from starcraft that has a pink and green glow but is just a thick beam.

projectile weapons would be best as beziers I think. I could just take a weapon graphic and fire one off, rotating it as it makes its way to the target. Likewise an actual model of a weapon could be shot out of a bezier effect. The birthrate would set how many objects per second showed hitting the enemy. If a spread was needed, you just do the same thing as a cone emitter. I am not actually sure if I remember how that worked in D2. Was it a cone or a single shot? I will have to see if there are already models out there for various projectile weapons and maybe use those.

#110
Shadooow

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prismatic ray should be thick or bit fatter ray, as there is already cone-like vfx for prismatic spray that is however different spell, this is beam

blade sentinel is a whirling shuriken moving on the path and back, blade furry is IIRC rather simple to hit shuriken projectile using many shurikens some images are here: http://classic.battl...sin-traps.shtml

anyway just thought from the images of Warlock in DnD: Complete Arcane: would be possible to make an end of the beam explode ? Or maybe something like two beam conjuring from each hand combining into one ? Hmm hard to describe with my limited english, try to find the complete arcane on filestube and look into it, you will understand...

#111
MerricksDad

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ok blade sentinel, if you wanted a near match, I would actually just get a shuriken model animate it to spinning in place. Either make it a placeable or apply it as an effect you can move. Script it in so anybody within x meters of the placeable gets hit. That's not so much a spell animation and definitely not a beam. Alternately you could make an animation that moves the blade from its base to x meters away and set up a zone spell. Then when you cast the spell, the effect gains the alignment of your character and stays where you put it, underlayed with your damage causing zone. Again not a beam.

I am not certain by images, but blade fury looks like a spray to a single point, for which you also don't need a beam, although a bezier ray might be more direct to the target the way you want. Bezier can be made to stop at the target while other effects just pass through. Again you need a shuriken model, or at least a shuriken texture, to align flat to the map. I would not use a beam for it personally, but casting the bezier as a beam does give you that end target point. Let me look into this one a bit and maybe I can come up with a good bezier for you.

Working on a few prismatic beams right now.

Beams cannot split at the end, they only converge. You can however cut them short with the threshold value, but never tried it.
If you combine a high threshold value with a high lightningRadius value, random chance could make your beam open on the end instead of closed. That is all theoretical as I have not played with it.
You then apply an explosion impact on your target, filling in the gap. Explosions should be taken care of with impact effects not in the actual beam model.
Making beams come from both hands requires the use of the "up" casting animation and a patch for your character animation models that sets monster nodes at each hand OR spacing the beam emitters so far apart. However spacing them in the beam model will not look right on all races.
Look up "monster nodes", I think OldTimeRadio has a great video on what you can do with that. See if making beams come from special points is something you really want to do on your models first.
If you get that far and have a monster beam set up per hand, you can then do two EffectBeam() functions in your spell script and apply one to "monster1" and one to "monster 2". You'd need two beam effects unless you want each beam to be the same (like Kells and Warlocks in Dungeon Siege 1).
I didn't see any prismatic beam graphics in complete arcane, but I did see 3 pages where beams originated at both hands. That kind of stuff could be done, but depending on how far apart the hands are, the two beams would not combine until the target. So far as I know I cannot cast a beam from hand 1 to hand 2 on the same model either unless I simply guessed at where it was.

Dungeon siege 1 also has some interesting effects most people never see. For instance there is an effect where when casting, the caster's arm all the way up to the shoulder takes on a sparkle. Its not a texture on the model itself, they just knew where the arm model was supposed to be (from what I can see). If you make assumptions you usually lose out, especially when trying to fit something to every race. But if you made a matching effect for every race it would probably work just fine.

here is my second attempt at a prismatic beam. http://www.facebook....2200912&type=3. The first was utter failure so lets not talk about it. I would personally go a bit fatter and brighter for one I would use. A custom explosion is probably also required, however if the DND prismatic beam is supposed to do different things, then maybe the impact vfx already available are sufficient for each effect.

#112
Daijin

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Nice prismatic stream! :D

#113
MerricksDad

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I have two files waiting for approval on NWvault. One for my growing beams library and one for weapon fx library. Hopefully they get published soon. If not I will just make code shares of my models and post my custom textures on FB as png's. I still have 200+ weapon fx to convert to NWNCX and I have no intentions of stopping beam creation anytime soon.

#114
Shadooow

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perfect

#115
MerricksDad

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Would it be too difficult to change the weapon swoosh which seems hardcoded so it was able to take on an effect as well? Maybe make a 2da for it and an effect applier? I'm not really sure what can and can't be done because I am not exactly sure what files are being edited to allow for this new content.

#116
The Amethyst Dragon

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MerricksDad wrote...

Would it be too difficult to change the weapon swoosh which seems hardcoded so it was able to take on an effect as well? Maybe make a 2da for it and an effect applier? I'm not really sure what can and can't be done because I am not exactly sure what files are being edited to allow for this new content.

That would be cool.  I'm imagining a hot sword that trails flames, but only when swung in combat.

#117
MerricksDad

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Ok, Errol is currently on vacation on NWvault so if I get a sec today to get some of these weapon fx and beams elsewhere, I will post links here.

#118
MerricksDad

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Beams pack. Its small right now but it wont be for long:
http://www.4shared.c...W/BeamPack.html

WeaponFx pack. Its only got 3 models in it, but it has some pics of others of the 200+ weapons I need to convert to NWNCX.
http://www.4shared.c...X_WepFX_20.html

#119
virusman

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The files are now on the Vault:
http://nwvault.ign.c...s.Detail&id=490
http://nwvault.ign.c...s.Detail&id=491

Modifié par virusman, 05 août 2012 - 11:11 .


#120
Failed.Bard

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I noticed the other day, that a shield "parried" arrow, seems to use a variant of the homing arrow VFX that targets the lforearm node.
Does that mean it might be possible for vfx to be made to target other nodes than impact and head, or is that a specific hard-coded exception?

#121
MerricksDad

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Hey virusman, if you are still working on this, I'd like to toss an idea out there:

How about stacking multiple VFX models on one weapon.

Currently, it appears that no matter what I do to a weapon VFX file, I can't force the engine to load them both. But if it was coded into the extension so that it would load any/all, we could make even more use out of the extension's new VFX capabilities, and in less 2da consumption. I think this would be exceptionally useful for dual weapons, where I could make a set of VFX for blade A and another for blade B, then select them both in the toolset, lightning on one and acid on the other, for example. As it stands right now, I'm making a VFX entry for every combination. I could also have a bunch of base VFX and some modifying VFX...say I want flames, but I also want motes, or an inner glow.

#122
MerricksDad

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ShaDoOoW, I've now selected out a bunch of stuff to make shuriken effects with, including the bioware shuriken models. As soon as I am finished with my weapon VFX gmax script for the vault, I will be starting a spell effects series to match some of my PNP spells, so I will probably get some shuriken goodies out to you.

#123
Shadooow

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Nevermind. :)
Open face helmets:
http://data.virusman...nwncx-0.2.5.rar
Add dummy node named "nwncx_openface" to your model, and the game won't remove the head when you equip the helmet.

I dont think this is enough. Heads arent standartized, every head is different, especially for hairy heads, this solution (as well as vfx one) is not perfect. I don't know how to workaround it, the hairs are the biggest problem but I suppose they couldn't be removed from head without new head models somehow. And making an adjustion for each problematic head is probably nonsense.

 

How is this solved in the newer games?

 

 

I'm still not sure it's the best way, but it seemed better than VFX. Anyway, even if you want to use VFX, you can create an empty model just with that dummy node and apply any kind of VFX in OnEquip script.

If I create an empty model it wont be visible on a ground. Even if I create a 10x10 pix black ball (which would worked) it will show like this on ground which is not what I would want when I would want to use this for a 2x2 head equiiped ioun stone where I would want to use a gem ground model etc.

 

We need a new feature to specify that this model should not render on head. But then, this can be be workarounded by a unequip or solved by serverside nwnx so maybe redundant.



#124
Gruftlord

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newer games? i can only speak for Skyrim if that is of interest, but that uses a face sculpturing machanic, so it's set up completelly different.

anyway, the main heads are all bald and you chose which hair you want to use in the character creation process.

for the helmets flags exist which hair parts it coveres (complete head, hair (upper) or hair (long/lower, like pony tails)). then you just flip the flags in the toolset for each helmet, that works the best based on the helmet mesh (i.e. diadems show everything, hoods cover the long hair, tight fitting helmets cover long and upper hair and full helmets cover the whole head.) also, different options are implemented for different races (e.g. cat like races with lots of hair on their head might hide their upper hair, when human races might still show it on the same helmet)

 

so it's built into the game from the ground up. to get anything like it working in NWN first bald heads would be needed, and hair as vfx. and it should be possible to apply hair and helmet vfx simultaneously.

 

edit: another idea: transparent hair color maybe? an then when a helmet vfx is applied, that needs to hide the hair, the color is automatically changed to transparent, and back again after removal. this might be a solution that is doable by scripts alone, maybe (without tediously splitting all head and hair on a mesh level first)