27 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashkeldir]

Playing a Dalish Elf who grew up with a bow in his hand, 33 dex, level 9 rogue..  How is it possible for me to miss three shots in a row at a target who is literally at point blank range and stunned!?

Seriously, I stun the bad guy with Dirty Fighting, and so he's not even able to defend, and my arrow is touching his chest, but when it leaves the bow, it goes flying over his head - because I'm just an Elf, after all, who grew up with a bow in his hand...

Maybe Dirty Fighting should give a large penalty to defense?   Or maybe there should be an attack bonus against anyone that's stunned?  Let me guess, that breaks game balance because then players who are stunned are in big trouble, especially when surrounded..  *sigh*  Guess we can't have it all..

[MonsoonStorm]

This is why I gave up Archery. I tried sooo many times, putting ALL points into Dex. Nothing like shooting a target who's right up against you and the arrow hits the ceiling 5 times in a row before I die.

[ct1615]

the dalish should give up archery and stick to making those yummy pastries

[Endurium]

I gave up archery too, and give Leliana melee weapons. Magic is far more reliable when it comes to targeting things so when I want ranged combat I roll a mage. Heck, a staff shoots almost twice as far as any bow, and always hits. Great for pulling.

[Lord Phoebus]

I was a little annoyed that dex is used to determine which bow you can use. Yeah, my improved hand-eye coordination really helps me pull back that 120 lbs draw wieght longbow....



Back on topic, mages make good archers, they don't miss. I know Morrigan was hitting for around 50 when I had her with the ice staff and all the +ice damage gear. Also did you have combat archery (the talent that negates penalties for using a bow at close range)?

[Ambaryerno]

"...target who is literally at point blank range..."



Honestly, that's how it SHOULD be. The concept of the "melee archer" is one of the most absurd things to EVER come out of RPGs.



I DO agree that there's some issues with accuracy in the game, but much of it is gameplay balance (there's no way you should miss a frozen/stunned enemy with a MELEE attack, either). Longbows could also stand a greater maximum range, as well, but keep in mind it doesn't take much to avoid an arrow fired at that distance, either. If bows were as accurate as they could be, the game would need to eliminate the magic homing arrows that follow a target even if they move after the shot was fired (test it for yourself. Watch for a shot to leave an enemy's bow then move your character. If the enemy "rolled" a successful hit, the arrow will turn to follow you).



Incidentally I can think of any number of situations where bows and arrows may be one of the best approaches you can take. The Brood Mother fight especially comes to mind. I practically mopped her up with JUST a combination of Morrigan and Leliana while my P/C and Oghren kept her minions busy (ultimately my P/C killed her by herself firing ice arrows from one corner where the Brood Mother's tentacles couldn't reach).



I especially like a combination of Pinning Shot + Crit Shot/Arrow of Slaying against Emissaries. I HATE dealing with those things with melee (high-level Emissaries can beat the hell out of you before you can close) or even magic attacks....



Or, if you're using a spell like Blizzard or Tempest which can hurt your own party, it's great being able to hammer the enemies inside without risking friendly fire by entering the AoE for a melee attack.



You just have to remember: Bows are RANGED weapons. If the enemy has gotten that close, it's time to switch to your alternate weapon and that's exactly how I use Leliana. I have her pelt them with arrows until they close in to melee range, then it's backstabbing time. I rarely have trouble with accuracy, just get your Dex up.

[OneBadAssMother]

This thread explains why the Elves were always easily conquered.

[Ashkeldir]

Things have changed - after making a new character (same name) and getting Far Song, and bringing the right companions along - attack rating is up so high that I don't think I miss anymore - ever.

I completely agree about pinning shot, etc, against emissaries, though I just have Wynne use a Glyph of Neutralization on one, and if there's another, I deal with them personally.

Yea, archers up close and personal, especially with longbows, is kind of silly - but having so many talents in archery, and none in melee weapons, I do more damage and crowd control with arrows.

Anyway, here's a screen shot of having the right equipment, buffs and talents that shows how archery can own just about everything... I guess they were right about the Dalish after all (but, just like mages at lower levels, they aren't as powerful until they reach higher levels)

Click the link for full size (159 attack, and that's without using Aim) and 204 defense, 270 vs Missiles, though that's in Defensive Fire mode, which I never use, because I never need it because of all the other buffs - and for fun,  had Shale put up Stone Aura, which boosts def some more, but still, you get the point - just wanted to see how high I could get defense  

Modifié par Ashkeldir, 16 décembre 2009 - 06:42 .

[johnbgardner]

You all are under a misconception. Melee archery is the ability to use an arrow as a dagger ala Legolas in the Two Towers.

[Haplose]

Ashkeldir wrote...

Playing a Dalish Elf who grew up with a bow in his hand, 33 dex, level 9 rogue..  How is it possible for me to miss three shots in a row at a target who is literally at point blank range and stunned!?

Seriously, I stun the bad guy with Dirty Fighting, and so he's not even able to defend, and my arrow is touching his chest, but when it leaves the bow, it goes flying over his head - because I'm just an Elf, after all, who grew up with a bow in his hand...

Maybe Dirty Fighting should give a large penalty to defense?   Or maybe there should be an attack bonus against anyone that's stunned?  Let me guess, that breaks game balance because then players who are stunned are in big trouble, especially when surrounded..  *sigh*  Guess we can't have it all..

Stunning does give a huge penalty to Defence. My Rogue, when Dirty Fighting is used against him, drops from 160+ to 80 and everything hits him.

[Freestorm Skinn]

I never used Melee Archery, seemed slow to me. I built up Leliana's archery but when I always had her retreat to a distance to provide DPS attacks. She helped bring down the High Dragon with Shale, and she singlehandedly brought down Marjolaine with a crossbow after the rest of the party fell.

[KariTR]

johnbgardner wrote...

You all are under a misconception. Melee archery is the ability to use an arrow as a dagger ala Legolas in the Two Towers.

In DA:O it just alleviates being "interrupted" when drawing, it doesnt equal the "Point Blank" skill of DnD unfortunately.

[johnbgardner]

Was only joking ;-)

[Kesshi]

Ashkeldir wrote...

The one thing I really can't stand about DA:O archery...

Just wait until the Arrow of Slaying bugs rears its ugly head at you.  You'll be cursing as the bug literally kills your party.

[heretica]

Kesshi wrote...

Ashkeldir wrote...

The one thing I really can't stand about DA:O archery...

Just wait until the Arrow of Slaying bugs rears its ugly head at you.  You'll be cursing as the bug literally kills your party.

What bug is that?

 I think that is a very powerful ailibity. I have an archer and that's one the funniest skills. The only thing i dislike about this is that besides that skill the dmg is pretty low overall. (or maybe i'm doing something wrong)

[trh5001]

I've never had a problem with archery its never been as powerful as using melee weapons but its enabled me to stay alive longer by not being in the fray and while the damage is lower its not enough to make me think archery isn't viable.

[Sidney]

Archery, again, seems to work fine for me - I guess I got the good copy of the game. Leli is a top end damage machine with Arrow of Slaying and Scattershot is a great CC tool since there is no FF.



Damage can be low but the activity is low risk so it should be. I wish bows could get runes added to them just like swords do but the ability to have fire/ice arrows and their ilk offsets that a bit.

[Sidney]

Ambaryerno wrote...

Honestly, that's how it SHOULD be. The concept of the "melee archer" is one of the most absurd things to EVER come out of RPGs..

I can deal with it since I can deal with 100's of other silly concepts in games but I really have no idea how anyone thinks this can work.

[Suron]

Ashkeldir wrote...

Playing a Dalish Elf who grew up with a bow in his hand, 33 dex, level 9 rogue..  How is it possible for me to miss three shots in a row at a target who is literally at point blank range and stunned!?

Seriously, I stun the bad guy with Dirty Fighting, and so he's not even able to defend, and my arrow is touching his chest, but when it leaves the bow, it goes flying over his head - because I'm just an Elf, after all, who grew up with a bow in his hand...

Maybe Dirty Fighting should give a large penalty to defense?   Or maybe there should be an attack bonus against anyone that's stunned?  Let me guess, that breaks game balance because then players who are stunned are in big trouble, especially when surrounded..  *sigh*  Guess we can't have it all..

sorry but you're doing it wrong then.

I'm on my 4th play...only one of them did I respec Leliana into DW..which DID make her a beast....but the other 3 plays she was archery and she's a monster with it...and I have yet to play through as a rogue...and she's really the ONLY choice to bring along if you want to open chests if you're not a rogue yourself unless you use a respec mod to respec Zevran when you get him (and up till that point you STILL have to use her if you're not a rogue)..because Zevran is quite worthless vanilla when it comes to openning things.....which is funny as he states when you talk to him that he can pick locks..when in reality he can't.

[humorguy]

Let's face it - in practically evry RPG ever made, archery is second cousin, Rogue is second cousin, Thief is second cousin. Mage and Melee is where it is. For example, how often in chests in any recent RPG game do you find arrows? Not in DA, not in Oblivion, not in the Gothic series. How many storekeepers sell arrows? One in Oblivion, none really in DA. Look at all the different sword and clubs and daggers and maces you get for a Warrior class, look at all the spells you get for Mages, but what do you get for Rogues? Couple daggers and if your lucky four different types of arrow!

I like playing a Rogue, I like using a bow as my main weapon, but it means I struggle to have fun in my RPG's until mods/cheats come along.

Modifié par humorguy, 18 décembre 2009 - 04:28 .

[Sidney]

humorguy wrote...

Let's face it - in practically evry RPG ever made, archery is second cousin, Rogue is second cousin,

Archery is a second cousin because it makes so little sense in most RPG settings. Really, with a long bow, if you aren't out on grasslands at range a longbow is a disaster. You are dragging that huge bow through a dungeon/cave/castle whatever? Really? You are firing it into a swirling melee? Good plan. You are trying to fire it while someone with a sword hacks at you? Ugh. At least DOA has the decency to give you "free" basic arrows and you don't have to try and drag along enough arrow (100's you'd need) wandering through the Deep Roads.

I'll say this, if you want archery DOA is light years ahead of Oblviion where it is utterly worthless.

[wolfpaq777]

Archery is by far the weakest weapon spec in the game right now, by a long shot.



Mages do more damage, have more control. 2h warriors, dual weild rogues & warriors put out sigNIFICANTLY more damage than my archer does.



That being said, i love my archer. I pumped nothing but dex so with master archer & defensive firing & duelist keen defense I am practically unhittable (tank revenants no problem). I can 1 shot any white enemy with arrow of slaying. My crit% can go pretty high with the right gear & shale & leiliana's song of courage, and I benefit from all the +% crit damage. Overall it has been quite a challenging but fun playthrough experience.

[Nokturnal Lex]

From what I've noticed archery owns if you ever play on casual or normal but soon as ya play on hard or nightmare it becomes horrible. So I'd hope everyone was talking about nightmare is this thread but I doubt everyone is.

Modifié par Nokturnal Lex, 19 décembre 2009 - 12:18 .

[sinosleep]

Actually Lex, from what I gather a combat stealth archer seems to be preferred nightmare solo run class in the forums. Although I agree the hitrate progression is absolutely atrocious. On my melee characters I'm usually hitting 90% and higher by lvl 10 by pumping strength and using precise striking, on my archers I'm still hitting for mid 70s early 80s due to the fact I usually play rogue archers and as such can't focus strictly on dex while ignoring all else for the first 10 levels the way you can with warriors and strength. It's the one thing that's always irritated me with rogues, if you want any utility you wind up having to spread your stats around, with Mages you just pump magic, with warriors you just pump strength (+dex if going sword and board), rogues though are all over the place. A little str for armor, dex for hitrate, cunning for utility and damage (lethality).

[Kesshi]

Catt128 wrote...

Kesshi wrote...

Just wait until the Arrow of Slaying bugs rears its ugly head at you.  You'll be cursing as the bug literally kills your party.

What bug is that?

 I think that is a very powerful ailibity. I have an archer and that's one the funniest skills. The only thing i dislike about this is that besides that skill the dmg is pretty low overall. (or maybe i'm doing something wrong)

The Arrow of Slaying bug is where you fire an Arrow of Slaying, you use the energy, watch the arrow strike the target, the arrow will be penetrating the target, but do zero damage.  You will receive no message.  No blocked, no immune, no miss, no "0" message, just a wasted cooldown.  I've noticed this happening on Reverants more than any other mob.