1917 réponses à ce sujet

[shteuyn]

I completely agree with this theory. There are lots of clues in the game that show that Javik loves testing Mass Relays. And those are:







The End. Theory confirmed

Modifié par shteuyn, 09 juin 2012 - 12:20 .

[sweet-d]

how can people be so stupid.

[SackofCat]

I gave a possible explanation for Javik's presence but it is based on what his character did only up until the end of Priority: Thessia so it is probably invalid.

However, if you have any other reasons why this theory doesn't make sense I wouldn't mind trying to speculate until it does make sense. So far, I think that my explanations have been at least tangentially relevant to the OP's theory.

[Erield]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Why so serious? 

Let's put a smile on that face. 

This forum just showed you - that its fuuuuulll of people - ready to belieeeeve  - in guuuuud

HAUGHRAUGHRURURAHAUHAU I'M NOT WEARING HOOOCKEY PAAANTH

Oh.  My.  God.  Friends and I were ripping on that line (well, and Batman in general) for months after we saw that.

Btw, I love this thread.  I'd feel bad for OP, but he keeps trying to defend his theory in the most ridiculous ways possible.  I'd've caved a long, long time ago, and just admitted that it's a nice idea that isn't grounded in reality.

[SackofCat]

I hope people haven't chased the OP away. He/she is the only one that can tell me if I am interpreting the theory correctly. I can't do this alone! Not when I don't believe it!

[shteuyn]

SackofCat wrote...

I hope people haven't chased the OP away. He/she is the only one that can tell me if I am interpreting the theory correctly. I can't do this alone! Not when I don't believe it!

Nice save;)

[dude527]

This thread... so epic.  OP, you deserve a reward and for all the wrong reasons!

I hope you realize that galactic society in general doesn't have the knowhow to produce their own set of mass relays, though.  Especially not after the only existing ones are destroyed.

Also, if they are testing relays, how many did they make?  And how did they get the others into place within a reasonable number of years?  I thought space travel without the relays could take years, if not decades!  I'm surprised at how little Joker, Liara, or Garrus has aged in that time!  As well as the fact that they're still wearing the same clothes, flying the same ship with the same crew, and EDI still has her mobile platform!

[SackofCat]

If I am not misunderstanding you, check out my first few posts in this thread. If I am misunderstanding you then I'm afraid I don't know what you mean.

[SackofCat]

My last post was directed at shteuyn.

[SackofCat]

For now, I will attempt to answer your questions in the OP's absence.

I don't believe the OP specified how far the time skip was so I can't say how long it took but presumably, the scientists that helped build the crucible were tasked with building new relays. It is possible that the remains of the old relay can be studied since it didn't disintegrate. They would be motivated by a desire to return home and restore galactic society. Desperation and a bit of luck.

Since it is still incomplete and in it's testing stage, I would say they built 2; 1 to transmit and the other to receive.

One possibility is that they used QEC to coordinate their research and then built the transmitting relay in the Sol system and the other near wherever they were lucky enough to communicate with. (I am aware that the original mass relays transmitted and received and I assume these new ones do too)

As for the crew, I earlier hypothesized that they were being honored for their skills and roles in ending the reaper threat. They may be wearing the same clothes as before for the same reason they did before; it was iconic.

[dude527]

The thing with the relays is that they did not simply cease to work - they exploded.  They didn't disintegrate, but they did get blown into countless little chunks that got sent at high velocities in all different directions, and since they were in space, these chunks will continue to drift in their directions forever.  All away from each other.  You're telling me that Hackett was able to react fast enough to the relay exploding, even though he didn't have any precedent to anticipate that, to gather enough of the pieces of it to form a working blueprint for a new one?

You're also trying to tell me that Hackett was short-sighted enough to send a number of ships after the exploding relay, despite the fact that he didn't know for sure if these Reapers were actually "dead" or "synthesized" (and this is to not even mention the control ending, where they fly away, rather than becoming "dead in the water") or if they were just plotting a ruse?  I would personally believe Hackett would maintain his defensive perimeter, just precautionary.

Additionally, the relay was arguably pretty far away from Earth - far enough where they wouldn't be able to see it.  They can, however, see the Citadel.  Why would any battle groups scramble to fix the relay that they can't see has exploded, rather than gathering pieces of the Citadel, which they can see has clearly split apart?  That makes no sense.

Addendum: I would be surprised if all the scientists - civilians and otherwise - were present at the Battle of Earth.  The Crucible arrived at the battle via mass relay, with a group of battle ships.  The thing was built at a top-secret location, and the scientists who helped build it were not all fighters, so they would not join the battlegroup in its escort, as they would serve little purpose.  My conclusion here: the team of scientists who built the Crucible would not even be around to engineer the relays.

Modifié par dude527, 09 juin 2012 - 02:58 .

[SackofCat]

Great points. Let me try:
The citadel is a known mass relay. They have incentive to study it.

As for the scientists, they very well may be where the receiving relay is built. It seems likely that Hackett would have some means of contacting them and might have even put contingency plans in place in case the reapers won. He may have insured that the scientists would be somewhere safe and self sufficient.

The amount of time skipped may even be related to the "Crucible" category of your EMS (how much and what type)

[MegaBadExample]

I am seriously fed up speculating.

[Joe Del Toro]

MegaBadExample wrote...

I am seriously fed up speculating.

That feel, bro.

That f*cking feel.

[Taboo]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

I am seriously fed up speculating.

That feel, bro.

That f*cking feel.

This.

[dude527]

The best counter I have to this without sinking to the level of the OP and merely counter-speculating (despite the fact that I have already done that) is clarity of intention.  To me, these crash scenes are clearly meant to be depicted as taking place in the middle of the mass relays exploding.  What else would that one-of-three colored blast be?  Why else would the nature of the scene be frantic, as opposed to somber?

To use an example the OP tried countering already: in the Synthesis ending, Joker's eyes are clearly a different color and his skin is clearly laced with green...stuff...after the crash.  The OP said the reasoning for this is that the eyes may not be visible in the lighting, and you don't really see Joker's arms clearly in the ship.  The thing the OP should understand is that nothing in the scene is happenstance.  Joker's eyes look normal for one reason: BioWare wanted his eyes to look normal.  To me, this clearly says that BioWare was trying to illustrate the effects of the synthesizing blast.  If BioWare wanted to illustrate a timeline taking place months or even years after the Battle of Earth, they would have shown us a transformed Joker.  Everything depicted in the scene is deliberate.  You have to have the critical eye to ask yourself "Why does BioWare want Joker's eyes to look like the normal, not-synthesized Joker?".  If you ask yourself this question, it seems absurd to answer it with "Because the lighting of the ship wouldn't allow us to see his eyes."   There is intention in depicting the normal Joker, and then a synthesized Joker.

[SackofCat]

The OP also offered (I think) that it can be voluntary.

I added that it could be an autonomic response. That when he is frightened or anxious it is not visible but when he is calm or horny it comes out...

I can probably come up with some better "speculations" but it is not easy to try to explain something that is illogical or that does not make sense, particularly if you feel like you are putting more creativity and work into it than the author...

I also think the unannounced break in the narrative with a corresponding time skip is the biggest argument against this "theory". My attempt to explain it away with "there is a time skip in a face-value interpretation too" is probably as weak as it gets when it comes to debating.

[dude527]

You completely skimmed over my point though, which is that this scene did not just randomly occur - it was created. Everything in it is in it for a reason. Saying it's voluntary or emotion-triggered is a bad argument, because nothing in the scene seems to indicate as much. If that was what was happening, I am 100% sure BioWare would have put something that indicates as much in the scene. They did not, so the argument is completely baseless. It seems more as though Joker was intentionally depicted differently to illustrate the effects of the synthesis, which occurred after the ship part of the scene.

[Mike 9987]

The crash is symbolic and never actually happened. It just represents a new beginning.

[Aetas Mutuo]

Good News Everyone!! Anything can make sense if you disregard the need for empirical data and just make sh*t up until you feel you have it all covered.
 
Just use your imagination, create events and information that does not exist and now everything everywhere now makes perfect sense. You don't have to conclusively prove anything or be encumbered by all those bothersome facts and verifiable data points.
 
Wait... wait. The more I think about it. I think I have figured it out. It does make sense! The OP is wrong though, that chain of events is ridiculous. I know what really happened.
 

When the Strawberry, Blueberry or Sour Apple energy beam hit the Normandy; Joker was knocked unconscious due to his frail body not being able to handle the energy of the beam.
 
When he awoke EDI had already taken control of the ship and moved it though the Sol Relay. He was confused by what happened but EDI said that there was no time to explain because there was an energy wave chasing the ship. Joker thought the energy wave was from a test jump of some kind but EDI told him that would be stupid since they were just at the battle for Earth.
 
Joker frantically tries to outrun the wave but makes a fatal mistake because all he can think about is his family and what Sheppard will say when he finds out the Normandy left earth without him. Finally, the wave catches the ship and BOOM!!
 
The ship coasts in on autopilot and lands on a lush planet after falling out of FLT speed. The door opens and the two of Sheppard's most embarked squad members or LI appear. Joker turns to ask them how they got there? He thought they were down on the surface of earth with the ground fleet. To which one of them replies;
 
"We have always been here with you, Joker. This is our home now... forever."
 
Joker then looks across the horizon and realizes that they never really left Earth. They didn't make it. He can see his sister and parents waiting for him. His time is over, but he gave it his all and in this new life his family and friends are proud of him.

 
Fundamental elements of story telling... those should be at the core of any explanation. Following them makes a more consistent and cohesive narrative that makes more sense. That is why we call them "Fundamental."
 
There is an inherent flaw in making speculation the primary explanation. Basically you are trying to 'Retcon' that scene. Anyone could make up anything to fit in there because there was nothing leading to it and it makes no sense.

This thread belongs in the "Fan Fiction" area.

[SackofCat]

Dude,
I agree that pretty much every element of the story is put there by the authors. I don't know what more to say other than reiterating your point which seems unnecessary. I am familiar with the Mass Effect media (games, books, comics, and quite a bit of forum trawling) out there. I also know a bit about good storytelling. There are still parts of the end that violate what I know and am familiar with.

As for the "Joker is mating with Edi and that is why he is green" hypothesis is me fleeing facetious. I often make jokes that nobody else is aware of. Call it a quirk. I may have done it a few times in this and other threads. I agree that the argument is ridiculous.

Your statements about the ending do coincide with my own interpretation.

Aetas

Exactly.

Pretty good. I like it.

Exactly.

Indeed.

You have stated my primary point in what I have written in this thread although I have also been giving an honest go at helping the OP flesh out his ideas. I tried not to be misleading but I have a feeling some posters may have skipped the first few pages and got the wrong impression about my motives. I also may have been coy once or twice.

[Seival]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Seival wrote...

Do you remember how Liara helped saving the SR1 crew in the beginning of ME2? Most people survived because of her. I'm sure Liara was very helpful during that SR2 planetside crash.

So now she's an expert on crashing ships?
Seival, that's gotta be the stupidest thing you've posted in this thread now.

She is experienced in surviving a ship's destruction and helping the crew with surviving that as well. Test-flight is very risky, so these skills will be very helpful... And we've seen the crash actually, so Liara definitely helped people during this "hard-landing".

There we have it people.

Being 'the best' requires only that you have a smidgen of common sense. 

Hey Seival, do you want a list of people that could fulfill the criteria? I'll warn you, there's several hundred million names here.

You sure you don't want people with relevant skills and experience crewing the ship? Or would you rather take Liara, you know, 'for luck'? I mean, I could get those Turians and Geth on the line right now and request their best crew-members if success is what you're going for. 

Do you really think that Normandy's crew would miss such an important event? They are the first in the list, no matter there are millions of people who can also perform such test-flights.

Why do you treat Normandy's crew like some kind of "Kings" that should never risk their lives to perform some important tasks?

[Grimwick]

Seival wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Seival wrote...

Do you remember how Liara helped saving the SR1 crew in the beginning of ME2? Most people survived because of her. I'm sure Liara was very helpful during that SR2 planetside crash.

So now she's an expert on crashing ships?
Seival, that's gotta be the stupidest thing you've posted in this thread now.

She is experienced in surviving a ship's destruction and helping the crew with surviving that as well. Test-flight is very risky, so these skills will be very helpful... And we've seen the crash actually, so Liara definitely helped people during this "hard-landing".

There we have it people.

Being 'the best' requires only that you have a smidgen of common sense. 

Hey Seival, do you want a list of people that could fulfill the criteria? I'll warn you, there's several hundred million names here.

You sure you don't want people with relevant skills and experience crewing the ship? Or would you rather take Liara, you know, 'for luck'? I mean, I could get those Turians and Geth on the line right now and request their best crew-members if success is what you're going for. 

Do you really think that Normandy's crew would miss such an important event? They are the first in the list, no matter there are millions of people who can also perform such test-flights.

Why do you treat Normandy's crew like some kind of "Kings" that should never risk their lives to perform some important tasks?

I think they would miss the first one cos you know, the high chance of them dying.

Just because it's something amazing doesn't mean that you would always want to go - look at the first few trips into space, many people did not want to go because it was very likely that they would be killed.

Also, having untrained personnel on a test-flight is a no no. Any organisation with a tincy bit of common sense would know that.

Also, you are the one who is treating them like "kings". Why are they so special enough that they should see this most 'amazing acheivement' that you are describing instead of others?

[M Hedonist]

Seival wrote...

Why do you treat Normandy's crew like some kind of "Kings" that should never risk their lives to perform some important tasks?

No. We treat them like real people who have better things to do than volunteer as test dummies. Remember how Liara acted towards you in ME2 when you asked her to join you on your mission? That's how sane people react to somebody asking them whether they want to risk their life on a suicide mission.
Contrary to "F*CK YEAH MASS RELAY TEST JUMPS" which you naively assume to be the common reaction of several different persons with varying personalities and motives.

Modifié par Sauruz, 09 juin 2012 - 11:01 .